Having your visa extended is not a big deal. I only did it once at a Philippine Consulate in the US, but it was expensive and took 3 weeks. I do it myself when I'm in Cebu now because it's so easy. The current cost of a 38 day extension is P1,610 (or is it P1,620...) plus P500 to expedite it. You need nothing with you but your passport and the fee. If you don't want to take the time, any travel agent will do it for you for a small fee. I would never risk trying to leave with an expired visa. You are supposed to be charged what it would have cost you to extend plus P500, but I've heard of some travelers (European) who have been hustled for P500 per day of overstay. When you are passing through immigration about to catch a departing plane, you don't have many options! Best go by the rules anyway.

I know all of the drivers and owners on our route, maybe 3 dozen or more. They have a variety of arrangements. Some drivers own their own, but most owners ""rent"" their jeepneys out to drivers and conductors -- what you call the ""boundary"" system. Some owners prefer to hire a driver and do their own conducting (collecting the fares). The incomes and costs I've described are the going rates and practices on the west coast of Cebu while other locations may be different. Still, it is a viable business.

Jeepney drivers actually earn well, specially if they own the jeepney. They work in what we call a ""boundary"" system. It's like renting the jeepney for a day. The jeepney owner is called the ""operator"". And jeepney repairs fall under their hands. I dunno the going rate nowadays...must be between 600-800 pesos. The driver gets to keep whatever else he makes, which is usually around 500 pesos...or more, depending on how many hours they are on the road. So if you own your jeepney, you get to keep everything and don't have to pay boundary, hence you earn more. If you take longer routes (out of cebu) and get a conductor, the driver pays the conductor. Hope that helps..

Hi to all, My suggestion if you want to save on-line time and be more efficient (: If you're using this method then I apologise for telling you something you already know . . . . :) Always make a note of the final Message No. you finished reading during your LinP session. At the start of each new session go to the bottom of the message index page and enter the number of the next message you want to read in the Message # box and hit : ""Go"" This will bring up a list of all the LinP messages starting with the number you entered. Then hit ""Expand Messages"" which will open them all at one time in the same window (if it's not too many - I don't know what the limit is). At this point you can go off-line if you want and take a leisurely scroll through all the messages without worrying about your bill for on-line time charges. The only problem I have with the above is that the sentences in some messages don't wrap around correctly in my Internet browser window. The simple answer to this is to copy and paste the messages into a text editing window such as a blank page in MS Word which will make them readable. If you want to post a reply to LinP or a new message then you can also prepare your text off-line in MS Word (or whatever Word Processing program you have), which is what I do most of the time. If your WP program includes a spell checker then it will help you to post without errors :) Just copy and paste your text from the WP window into LinP when you go back on-line. Hope this makes LinP browsing a greater joy.

Welcome to the site, and the best of luck on your move. We have a lot in common. I'm currently vacationing in RP (in Cebu at the moment) and trying to make a decision, re: a permanent relocation to RP. I agree with Don's assessment of Angeles City. I feel it's mighty good for a vacation, but I don't think it's the best place for a long- term stay. Jim Boyd (RAO in AC) has been a true professional, and I use their mail system due to my affiliation with Uncle Sam. He's a good person to assist with questions or concerns. IMHO, you'd be better off taking a peek at several RP locales before deciding on a place to hang your hat. Personally, I've been to Baguio City, AC, Manila, Davao, Butuan, Cagayan de Oro, Lucena City, and Zamboanga (several years ago when it was relatively safe....but don't go there now!). I find Cebu hard to beat, but I'm planning a longer stay in Davao, and a trip to Damaguete and Cavite. Like you, I'd like to further my formal education. I already have an advanced degree in a technical discipine, and several credentials in Advanced Management, teaching, and other fields. I believe I'd like to teach at the university level, but I'm finding it's not a foreign- friendly environment for outsiders. I'm also considering a teaching position outside RP in more friendly places to instructors. Thus, if you have any desire to teach here, you may find it difficult, as I have, to get a paying position. Keep in touch, and let us know about your decision-making process. We're all very interested! Good Luck!

When my wife Eda came here in '99 I introduced her to my neighbor LetLet. LetLet has been here many years. Her godmother brought her over and put her through college. Her husband is a security guard. LetLet is very brand conscious and leans heavily on her godmother for financial support. She loves to shop at fashionable stores. LetLet came by today to brag about her Christmas gifts. Her husband got her many gifts, VCR (Sony of course), boots ($50.00), etc. LetLet: Eda, what did your husband give you for Christmas? Eda: Diamonds LetLet: WHAT??? What size and how much? Eda: 2 carats for $2,000.00 LetLet: Show me the ring Eda: They are earrings... 1 carat each ear LetLet: Let me try them on Eda: They're not here. I told my husband to return them LetLet: WHAT!!! WHY??? Eda: I told Billy our dental copayments for my teeth was a big expense LetLet: HUH??? Eda: I told Billy I didn't deserve such an expensive gift LetLet: Billy DIDN'T really return the earrings, did he? Eda: Yes, he didn't want to, but I insisted LetLet: But now you have no Christmas gift! Eda: I told Billy to buy me a bicycle, that's enough... When I got home after work, Eda said, ""I think you owe me a bicycle"". Like they say in Arkansas, Eda broke her like a shotgun...

It has been asked often, Mike ... so often that I can give you a rough answer from memory of past posts. I believe we've decided that you can live in comfort in most areas of the RP, with a good smattering of western niceties such as air-conditioning and fairly frequent dining out, for $1,000 U.S. a month. For $1,500 a month, you are practically in luxury. You can get by on much less than $1,000 a month if you live more like a Filipino (but many foreigners won't want to). At the other extreme, living in Manila, in housing comparable to top suburban U.S. neighborhoods, will cost you as much or more than in the U.S.!! Obviously, there is a wide range depending on locale and how much of the western goodies you are willing to give up. If I'm off-base on any of this, I hope other list members will correct me. And please study the archives for much more comprehensive information

I would like to introduce myself, my name is Dewey and I have been a lurker of this board for almost a year now. I am planning on retiring from the military and then going to Cebu and start from there on my hunt for a place to retire. Bottom line this is a great site full of valuable info. Now in reply to Adam here is a little something from Asiaweek online. It should give you some idea of what your worth would be.

Unless you have an independent source of income or are able to be hired by a foreign company, you don't have a prayer of finding a job once you are in the RP. Even if you manage to jump all the hoops to gain permanent residency and a work permit (which can be difficult), you will be competing with thousands of qualified collage graduates. If you require as much as $1,000 per month for a comfortable lifestyle, you will NOT find any job that will pay you P50,000. Very few Filipinos earn that much. You do have an option of going into business.

I hate to be the rain that falls on your parade! If you wish to submit a resume I'd suggest that you do so with companies who would hire you. I may be mistaken, but I don't think you'll find any of them on this list. I would like to suggest to you that when you feel the time is right, take an extended trip to the RP and spend some time there getting a feel of the lay of the land. Make it a round trip! Return home and let the experience digest for a while. You will get some good advice about things you should consider when moving to and living in the RP from lists such as this, but nothing can substitute for being there and learning for yourself what living in the 3rd world really means to you. Those who have been there can relate their own experiences and opinions and you can get some good ideas, but they can't substitute for what you will need to learn for yourself. You will find a complex culture which at first blush may seem familiar, but as you spend time in it you will find that it is only a veneer. If you reach that point, your learning really begins. You can't know how you will like it or react to it until you have been there yourself. If you are prepared I think that you will enjoy it, but everyone's mileage varies.

would it b improper or useless 2 post a resume on this board? meanwhile i am searching 4 us companies that do business there. so far within the few minutes i found a company called peoplesupport. don't no if neone has heard of it. i certaintly haven't, but they r american based doing business in manila.

i have been computer teacher in a public school system for the past 7years. i have about 15 total years professional experience w/computers. how can i go about finding an american company here that would send me 2 the philippines if i choose 2 go this route as opposed 2 trying 2 find something once i am there. r technical jobs hard 2 find there? what would something as low as say, tech support or computer repair pay there?

You should search the threads of this newsgroup since a lot of discussion of this subject has occurred in the past here. In a nutshell, unless you are financially secure, you may find yourself in the ""poor house"" if you move to the Philippines without some savings. If you do find employment, it will not likely be enough to sustain reasonable living accomodations. Even if you get some kind of job, you will probably make enough to live in a tin shack house or hut with little or no plumbing. My MINIMUM rule of thumb is this: for every dollar you make in the U.S., you should have double that in cash liquidity. Thus if you make $100k you should have $200k in cash liquidity. This will allow you minimum comforts with respect to your U.S. living standard. Basic rent and food is much different in PI. Unless you are not turned-off to eating dried, fermented fish or pig/chicken intestines, you will need to be financially secure to eat in a more Western way. This is my minimum standard. Unless you are ready to take a severely painly cut in living conditions, you should have funds available based on this informal standard. This should allow you to 'vacation' for about 5 years in PI before you are broke. Thus this minimum is a starting point. Ideally, you should have 3X to 4X your U.S. earnings in liquidity if you want to be able to repatriate yourself and feel like you are middle class again when you return to the states. These figures are based on living in provincial cities. If you live in Manila, all bets are off. If anything I've said scares you, then it should not... if you have never been there, there's no way your filipina friend can begin to describe it. There are many beautiful things in the PI, but there are 5 times as many ugly things (poverty, disease). Remember, Philippines is cheap and a great place for nice long vacations, but it's not that cheap! Best bet.. after your divorce is final, take your filipina friend on a 1 month vacation to the Philippines and see for yourself what kind of budget you will need to rent a suitable apartment.

I rarely repost a message by some one. But this simple one by Ray I just read when cleaning out my inbox worthy. And we do have new members who are thinking of doing business here. So without Ray's permission, I repost for those of you who may have not seen it or found it. Now Ray has a wife and some of you don't. And evidently he has one with good judgment or listens to his. If you don't have that this means nothing to you. We have many more good post on business and play and interpersonal relationships on the list. If you are interested dig into the archives for the gems.

That is the way to do it from my experience and the experience of my friends too, Ray: sound advice. I just heard more rumblings about coup rumors on TV. If some hears something solid please post. From what I understand they are making noise about a secret meeting President Arroyo had with Sen. Pacifico Lacson the one accused of being a drug lord and Sen. Gregorio Hounasan the former revolutionary who for violently trying to over throw the Aquino government had to do push ups as punishment. Her foes are saying it was a recent secret meeting. She say is was some time ago in an continuing effort to keep the government from destabilization.

I have been trying to convince Emily to adopt instead of risking a few medical contions from my family that can be past on. Clubed feet for one and diabeties. I have not had much luck. My brother and niece needed surgery to correct thier feet and my dad never had his feet and it has given him problems all of his life. Take Care

I thought you had to actually live with the child for 2 years. If Leila lived with a little girl for many years, then came here for 3 years, then applied, would her previous living with her count?

Great Story and a good example of the difference between a PRACTICAL wife and a ""born to shop"" wife. Men can be VERY successful in their careers and shrewd with their business dealings but if a man chooses the wrong wife he can end up broken and homeless. Often we find immigrant Filipino Americans MORE AMERICAN than ones born here.

I just read the Philippine Retirement Authority in the Enquirer and AS USUAL they are full of Sh... with their ideas about approaching foreign companies with retirement programs and requiring individuals to put up U$125,000 for a retirement visa which it takes U$10,000 in legal fees to get back within 6 months to include in some sort of investment in the Philippines. What kind of people consider retirement in a country like the Philippines? Most likely such a person is a man who is attracted to Asian women especially Filipinas, often financially restricted due to previous divorce(s) or child support or change in careers ( men between 45 and 60 are the major targets of downsizing by corporations )and sick and tired of their own country's culture and many taxes and restrictions. Am I 90% right? Bill made some good points Adam about coming over with some capital and not expecting to find employment. For the small business entrepreneur the Philippines is a small businessman's DREAM. And if a guy can adapt to the local living conditions like living without in house hot water, telephone, cable TV, great quality beef foodstuffs, ect he can live a GREAT LIFE on MUCH less than Bill suggests is necessary. After all we ""free spirits"" who believe life BEGINS each year of our life no matter what age we are who are SICK AND TIRED of life in the modern ""Pop culture"", ""salary slave"" society at ""home"" WANT OUT. Let's face it, SAVING isn't exactly an American Way of Life. Most guys I meet have much less than U$200,000, maybe U$50-U$75,000 with a monthly pension or SS income of U$1 -U$2,000 / month often not being paid to them for another 5 to 10 years. I was just talking to a German guest of ours that's thinking about retiring in 2 years at 55 years old with only U$50,000 and U$200/month. I told him he should pick a woman with a job and get involved with some sort of small business with maybe one third of his savings.

The wages published in Asiaweek are accurate enough, but keep in mind that the survey was taken among those who are within the infrastructure, a minority of the population. There are minimum wages set by the government, I think about P180 per day in Cebu, but they don't apply to household help or sales clerks in public markets for instance and few employers pay any attention to them. Wages vary, but salesgirls in public markets are paid P800/mo plus 1% commission on sales and would be doing very well indeed if she could take home P1,200. They work 12 hour days, 7 days a week. Carpenters and masons are paid P150/day and work 8-12 hour days, 6 days weeks. Their unskilled helpers earn P120/day. A jeepney driver works on commission and is paid by his conductor, but a take home of P200/day is possible. A tricycle driver might earn P100, but P70 is more likely on good days.

We pay P2000/ month to our maids to begin and the better ones make P3000 / month within a year. Our driver gets a small apartment plus P4000 / month 6AM to 6PM Mon- Sat but I tip him frequently when he paints or does extra work We pay contruction laborers P150/day, carpenters / masons P200 /day to P250 / day and our all around forman who also WORKS ( unlike most ), knows how to do plumbing,electrical carpentry and masonry, being an expert at most for P300/ day. If they work most of the year meaning 8 months we give them a 2 week or one month Christmas Bonus. So living on P10,000 / month is possible but doesn't allow for any extras. P20,000 / month allows for a pretty good life and saving part of it for extra travel trips ect. is possible. P30-P50,000 / month (U$600-U$1000 ) entitles you to live the ""Life of Reilly"" if you live in a modest home. You can afford a car and frequent travel and can save enough to go back to States for a couple of months every year. P100,000/month (U$2000) will increase your net worth steadily over a period of years and live GREAT except NOT in the MANSIONS of GATED COMMUNITIES or high rise CONDOS in Manila. But you could build your own mansion and live in it in the provinces.

I do agree with what everyone else said about angeles city, a fine place to visit, but not to really live and experince the philippines,(OK! I love Cebu a little too much!!). Angeles city reminds too much of every other old military installation around in asia. Just my two cents worth

My wife lorna just bought a ticket from Garden State Travel , a Filipino travel agent in Jersey City JFK-Manila RT on NWA for U$599 + tax good for 90 days. I paid U$750 RT on NWA in October. Go to; http://gardenstatetravel.com You can pay over the phone by Credit Card and they will send the ticket by post which you'll receive a few days later. The first ticket we drove there but now do it this way since we live in CT about 1-1/2 hours drive away. I'm quite sure the special fare includes several other USA cities located in the midwest and west coast ( maybe only $500+ )so no matter where you live you can take advantage of this great deal.

In some ways I'm not trying to disagree with you - just saying think outside of the box. Think of some of the following. Cebu I don't believe is heavily dependent on who is in power in Malacanang. It is more dependent on the effectiveness of the Chinese-Filipino community in the region, and their investment actions, and folks like the Osmenas in leadership (the pluses and the minuses). Cebu survives coups fairly easily. Mindanao has always been financially ignored by whomever is in power in Malacanang, so it doesn't matter who is in the catbird seat. GMA is a skilled economist but is hindered by a country operating with a XIXth century economic set of practices. Folks like Lucio Tan, legislatively keep the Philippines out of the international tourism market by their closed skies approach to seats to/from Manila. The keep the number of seats limited to major places such as Singapore, and North America. But - there have been many local adaptations and you see them especially in Cebu or in Davo. There is a greater emphasis on local tourism (which Tan can encourage since internal flights are fairly expensive). Fortunately Gokongwei and some others are starting to compete and put pressure on Tan. The Lakbay network, the competition for meetings between some of the smaller cities in the Philippines, and the tourism festival emphasis all are making more local Filipinos explore what are their cultural assets. The lack of government support for many years for Mindanao and much of the Visayas, has encouraged a much greater reliance on self-initiative and projects done locally then in the past. You may all assume that I worked in a high paying urban setting. No, my friends mostly live and teach in a small rural remote barrio on the Davao del Sur-Cotobato boundary. There's still no running water, very limited electricity, no phone lines - but now many cell phones. There aren't any internet cafe's. I don't think you will see many TVs. The signal would have to travel 30 miles. No cable. But there is movement going on in that barrio. The school teachers teach, many folks move away, but they send money back to help others. The cycle goes on. And whereas when I was first there people waited for the government, now they innovate and don't expect (what never was). Don - I think living in Cebu or nearby, you have much of the best of both worlds. Lots of things not found in the very rural area where I lived, but also lots of private initiative. And yes, it goes up and down. And as to the 4th People's Revolution I don't think its going to happen. Many middle class realize that the recent EDSA revolution was run by the wealthy, not the poor. The middle class has been left out of the EDSA revolutions. I don't think they will be suckered again. Philippine real development will go hand in hand with recovery in Japan, which is still some time in the future. The things I would be looking at are items such as programming for American corporations. Some of this work I believe is now being done by Peat Marwick. India is trying to do a lot of this work. U.S. corporations are moving reservations and service call centers off shore. There are many places in the Philippines where this could work, especially handling the evening and early morning hours. Some of this is now done in Jamaica, but the Philippines would be less expensive. International tourism at least the golf stuff will pick up with the Japanese and Korean economies. Other parts depend on the development of 3* hotel rooms and prices and budget hotel rooms in Manila - that join in the international hotel market so everyone can sell them. I think international air depends on PAL being sold to another operator, and joining a real alliance with a North American carrier. Once Cebu Pacific links through Japan or Korea with Northwest, PAL will get up off of its butt.

Thanks Alot Don for reposting Ray's description of investing in small business ventures in the Philippines. My wife, Lorna and I agree totally with Ray. We also have stayed away from the bar and restaurant businesses. I don't know why but SO MANY guys we have met over the past 20+ years in Asia have a dream of owning a bar, even the smallest one.

Depending on the age of your wife the BEST WAY TO ADOPT is to claim your wife delivered the Baby at home ( in a somewhat remote province is best attracting less attention )with the help of a mid-wife who signs the necessary papers so you can register the baby as your own with your embassy in Manila. Thanks Alot Adam! This is the best, most easy to use sitebuilder of any free homepages website I have used in the past three years, But guess what? After one month I received an email from about.com that my site would be deleted or cease to exist Dec. 16 if I didn't switch over to zdnet and pay them U$70 +$10 / year to maintain my site. I think that the MANY FREE internet services that we have grown use to will soon disappear so the dotcoms can improve their ""bottom lines"". Oh well such is life, no ""free lunch"" any longer.

I have created a half dozen free homepages and up until Dec. 16 have ALWAYS followed a policy of doing everything offered on the internet FREE. Now after all the time it took be downloading photos etc. for my latest website I finally put out U$70 / year. My new all around ""Philippines Budget Travel"" website is at:I have only just begun submitting the above website to the many search engines but if you type in ""hotel near Manila airports"" using most major search engines my other website homepages with angelfire, geocities or fortunecity should appear.

Thanks Ron. I am trying to figure out how to ""Teach Leilas father to fish"". I am considering buying a jeepney and having her father and brother in law run it. Anyone have any ideas on this. I dont need to make any money off this but if I could pay the two of them a living wage and eventually pay off the jeepney, that would be great. Thanks for any info.

That's a doable plan. For the sake of your ulcers it would be good to buy the jeepney with no expectations of income. ""Rent"" it to your father and brother in-law for P3,000-P4,000 per week and let them make whatever they can for themselves. Let them be responsible for routine maintenance, fuel and oil. This is a common arrangement, but if the deal turns sour for any reason your expectations won't be disrupted too badly. A side note: jeepney driving seems to be a job of choice by a some expats because they can easily work under the table.

Jeepney drivers actually earn well, specially if they own the jeepney. They work in what we call a ""boundary"" system. It's like renting the jeepney for a day. The jeepney owner is called the ""operator"". And jeepney repairs fall under their hands. I dunno the going rate nowadays...must be between 600-800 pesos. The driver gets to keep whatever else he makes, which is usually around 500 pesos...or more, depending on how many hours they are on the road. So if you own your jeepney, you get to keep everything and don't have to pay boundary, hence you earn more. If you take longer routes (out of cebu) and get a conductor, the driver pays the conductor. Hope that helps.

Depending on the age of your wife the BEST WAY TO ADOPT is to claim your wife delivered the Baby at home ( in a somewhat remote province is best attracting less attention )with the help of a mid-wife who signs the necessary papers so you can register the baby as your own with your embassy in Manila.

IMy personal experience is that the Philippine Government is not too happy about foreign adoptions. So many pedophiles prey on these children as in many other Pacific island nations. Her in the CNMI (Saipan) a local law was passed blocking adoptions from the Philippines unless the child has lived here for a minimum of one year prior to the adoption request. This practically stopped the large number of adoptions of Filipino children (mainly relatives of OCWs here, that was going on up to that date.

I am trying to figure out how to ""Teach Leilas father to fish"". I am considering buying a jeepney and having her father and brother in law run it. Anyone have any ideas on this. I dont need to make any money off this but if I could pay the two of them a living wage and eventually pay off the jeepney, that would be great. Thanks for any info.

Re. jobs in the computer industry in the RP. We have OCWs from the Philippines who are graduates in computer programming and technology form major colleges in the RP, clamoring to work here in Saipan for $3.25 an hour. That should tell you something regarding the paylevel of computer professionals in the RP employed by local companies. If you can land a job with an American company operating ther you may be better off. However, they also seem to prefer local employess due to the low wages.

Sorry Larry, I have no idea. Though the jeepneys here are mostly reconditioned vehicles and they just build the body from there. A popular maker of jeepneys, Sarao Jeepneys, closed shop a few years ago. In Cebu, the Chariot is pretty popular but I have no idea of the cost. Maybe Ron would know.