You already know that there are a lot of variables in your question, but maybe I can help a little. How much is enough for a family of 5, I couldn't possibly guess accurately! At what level are they living now? Let's say that if 2 our of 5 are working steadily at average construction worker's wages, their combined income would be in the neighborhood of P8,000 per month. If you figure income should be about 10% of your sales you would need to move about P80,000 per month. Add to that your overhead (taxes and utilities) which could be from P500-P1,500. To be conservative you should probably shoot for 90-100,000. To move this amount of material (if you are able to re-stock frequently), you could possibly get by with about 20 sq. meters. If you build this structure with cement blocks and roof it with GI and aim for a substantial secure structure, you might be thinking in terms of P120,000-P160,000. Add to this the cost of your initial stock, maybe P50,000. This does not ! take into account the cost of the property which could be almost anything. There are so many variables here that these are only educated guesses, but I hope it helps get you into the ballpark.

Ok, option number 327. If I want to open fund a sari sari store, how big must it be to support 5 folks. These folks are way below poverty level but I would like it to provide food and normal shelter for about 5 folks (two of which are married). I guess I am asking, the startup cost. It isnt my responsibility of where it located, or the operation etc, just the intial startup costs to allow a more than good chance of it working. Thanks for any information and sorry, I cant be more specific but I know nothing of what I am talking about....just looking into a one time setup

If things aren't bad enough with Shabu, the drug Ecstasy has now invaded RP, according to a national newspaper. Known as the ""hug drug"" due to its effect of producing increased sexual desires in users, this scourge has even more potential adverse consequences for users. According to a recent television show (OPRAH), the drug causes irreparable brain damage, and the chances of death for casual or even first time users is high. The newspaper reported that night clubs in Manila have seen a rise in the number of patrons that don't drink alcohol, but carry/drink bottled water, instead. The reason is that many of the water drinkers are actually using ECSTASY, and need the water to assist with preventing dehydration. Apparently, the drug also causes increased physical activity, and users are known to dance themselves to dehydration and injury.

Ok, Ron, thanks. The land is already there so it wont cost me anything. Everyone is either not working or working at fisherman (or below) wages, so anything would be an improvement. From what you wrote, I am guessing $5k would get them started. It may sound heartless but I would only be involved with startup...everything else is up to them. If it goes busts, it is on their heads. If they develop it into the next Robinsons, so much the better, for them...I dont want any of that either. I just want to give them a fighting chance and hope for the best. So is my conversion about correct, will $5k get them started?

This one I know something about. There is no direct way to do this. You have to find someone you can trust with the funds. You can establish a bank account and that is the best way to move funds into the RP. I had tried to use a HS principal to administer the funds for a time and it cost almost exactly 10%. I later found a family member who could be trusted and all still goes fine.

If I want to fund 2 kids going to high school and then college, is there a way to deposit money in a bank account, so that the money goes directly to the schools for tuition, uniforms books....everything, but that the money is not able to be removed from the bank for any other reason. Thanks again.

Thanks Ron. As we are typing, my loving wife is coming up with even more ideas. Now she needs to ask you the costs of two new trikes and two used trikes and any startup costs involved with this idea. Sorry to be a bother buddy, I am just the typist and following instructions. HINT....dont allow your wife to become qualified with automatic weapons. It changes the normal family structure.

That should be an ample starting capital. I chose to become more involved myself and am happy that I did, but it's your choice. If your family has been in business before and are savvy it should work out. Good luck to you!

I'm afraid tricycles aren't in my bag! I know that the average income of the drivers in our neighborhood is about P70 per day when business is good. I've not priced them so I can't help you there. Perhaps another lister would know about that.

Ok, option number 327. If I want to open fund a sari sari store, how big must it be to support 5 folks. These folks are way below poverty level but I would like it to provide food and normal shelter for about 5 folks (two of which are married). I guess I am asking, the startup cost. It isnt my responsibility of where it located, or the operation etc, just the intial startup costs to allow a more than good chance of it working. Thanks for any information and sorry, I cant be more specific but I know nothing of what I am talking about....just looking into a one time setup.

What I know about tricycles is that if you own it, your income would come from renting it out. I don't know thw going rate of tricyles though. But it should be at least a couple of hundred a day.

To put the record straight on flooding in Davao. After five days on very heavy rain, it has now stopped and is sunny again. The low lying areas around the Davao River were flooded to a depth of about three feet. This included SIR Village, & Gem Village, within the city proper, plus some villages to the south. The bridge on the Diversion road was washed away, the Bankerhan and San Raffel bridges were closed for a time for fear of collapse, but are now re-opened. Roads to the north and south have land slides in part, but are passable.

You are absolutely right. Much depends upon the management of such a store. Not all fail however. I can't speak to business in the city, but in the province most all of the sari-sari's that start do fail for the reasons you've stated. Most are run from the front porch, are poorly funded, badly managed, give credit and live off of their own stocks. Of all other family run businesses, I believe a sari-sari has one of the best potentials because everyone has to eat. People can put off buying clothes when times are hard, but the last thing they will stop buying is food. Only one other business has a better business potential in my opinion, and that is the undertaker. There is a category of sari-sari that is successful. They are owned and run by experienced vendors who are business savvy and who can afford to invest enough capital to give them adequate inertia to overcome the never ending cash flow problem. Taking a look at the road from Aloguinsan to Pinamungajan (my neighborhood) just for instance, a distance of 10 km, there are possibly 2 dozen sari-sari's operating from front porches. They come and go like falling leaves. There are 4 or 5 including mine that have been established for several years apiece and who I assume are doing fine. Even so, there are other reasons to fail. One store about a kilometer from us failed after 7 years of operation when the owners started selling shabu and consuming their own stock. I believe Al's question was how much capital would it take to start a sari-sari that was to support a family of 5. There are dozens of reasons why such an endeavor should fail, but he asked to overlook the pitfalls. I would not want to invest in such a business and walk away, but that wasn't his question. One needs to assume that his family would manage the business wisely and that they would have an ideal location with little competition. Having to assume that all other factors are favorable, I believe that his 5 grand would be sufficient to start such a business.

My resident tricycle expert, my wife, says that her dad earns about P300 per day driving a trike, which he owns, in Butuan City, Mindanao. Expenses will come out of this amount. A brand new tricycle will run about P120,000 and we paid P45,000 for a used one in good condition. Again, this is in the province and Manila or larger cities may be different.

The main difference between ecstasy and shabu, though, is that ecstasy is very expensive and therefore unlikely to be accessible to the average person in the Philippines. Only the upper middle class and wealthy nightclubbers would be able to afford this designer drug. Shabu is dirt cheap, effective and for that reason, more dangerous.

Shabu or Ice at it is call in the Pacific Rim is the smokeable form of Methamphetamine. You can compare it in potency as you do the difference between Powder Cocaine and Crack Cocaine. it is the equivalent to crack in the US. Mostly poor people use it and it has devastated many families. It is the curse in the Philippines as it is in the CNMI, Guam, Hawaii, Taiwan, and many other island nations. The name ""Ice"" is derived from the fact that it looks like ice crystals or flakes. The majority of Ice or Shabu we find in the CNMI has its origin in the Philippines. Mainland China is also a large exporter. On the US WestCoast powder meth (Crank) is mostly used, distributed in a large part by various biker gangs, very little Ice is found there

I dont care if it works or not. I am just considering getting it started. It would be nice if it works, but after I foot the startup bill, I would be out of it. I really would like them to have a fighting chance but, after the shelves are stocked the first time, Im out of it.

Sorry to confuse everyone with my recent questions. The situation is that I am considering setting the family back home up with a business of their choosing. When you teach someone to fish, (or in this case, buy him the net and show him where the water is) I dont expect to have to help him throw his net on a daily basis. I dont guess my responsibility is to go there for 2-3 years just to teach someone not to drive into a tree or not to have a party and give away all the rice in one night. So, i wont be involved in the business or ever get anything for a return, just ""paying my bill"

SAGADA a small village 6 hours by bus north of Baguio is PERFECT. Our old friend, Dave, has pursued oil painting and learning a variety of musical instruments for the last almost 10 years there. You can easily live on LESS THAN $2000 a year plus your immigration and yearly flight costs. Typical rent would be U$30 to U$40/ month and the vegetarian meals there are maybe U$1+ each. Whenever my wife and I have a really BIG FIGHT which looks like one of us may split, I ALWAYS THINK OF SAGADA as MY REFUGE HIDEAWAY.

Ecstasy is NOT a REAL Problem because it's EXPENSIVE so 90% of the population could not afford it. Ecstasy, if pure, is NOT the danger that Oprah broadcast says it is; it began as a prescription drug given by psychologists to married couples who had joined marriage counseling groups and sought help from sociologists and pychologists. People who took it felt waves of emotions encouraging them to bond with their spouses or lovers. Its wholesale price is about $8 to $10 each for quantities and retail or street value often ranges between U$20 to U$30+ making it P1000 to P1500 to get high for only about 6 to 8 hours which only the richest Filipino kids or adults could afford. Whereas SHABU can cost only P50 maximum / high which can last for 24 hours. Of course when used in combination with alchohol just like MANY prescription drugs it could be seriously harmful.

I think Yes on a Semester by Semester Basis and you just need to speak with the school's admittance office followed by the office of the cashiers. When you find out and make the arrangements PLEASE SHARE IT WITH US BECAUSE it's excellent information to share with the group.

I bought a Motorola for P2390 (about $47). Airtime is about P8 per minute ($0.16 US) and text are P1 ($0.02 per text). Incoming calls and texts are free (it's a CPP or calling-party-pays system, even landline pays when originating to a cellphone). Lucky me, the phone was ""unlocked"" so after I used it for a week in China on a different carrier, I managed to sell it in the states for what I paid for it... try to get one unlocked if you can.

That's a good question, Tim, as I was thinking of getting one for the two months I will be there. I understand they are something like $30 and then you get prepaid cards.

It is best that the store is managed by someone with a strong discipline in the cash flow. Many a sari-sari store go belly up when the base capital is depleted by indiscriminate withdrawal of cash or merchandise. The temptation is always there to dip into the cash box whenever a personal emergency arises. Also, there is the matter of granting of credit (pautang) that the manager should be wary of. It is best that a policy of ""strictly no credit"" be adopted at the outset. In sari-sari store operation, the bulk of profit is derived from ""wet"" goods like halo-halo, boiled corn on the cob, home made ice candy, etc. There is not much markup you can slap on canned goods and supermarket stuff. So it is not uncommon for stores to have benches in front. When my brother operated one years ago, his store served a ""carenderia"" (mini-restaurant) during the day and a small beer garden during the night. It helped send his kids to college. Mar Medina In San Francisco and two years away from becoming a repat.

Do they have any bad typoons in Sagada? or mud slides? That life really appeals to me, that would mean i have enough money to go there for 10 years, and by that time my property here will be payed off so i could come back and sell it and move back out there, so in fact at the age of 41 i could retire, now thats a nice thought :-) The accommodation must be very basic for that cost, ie $40 per month!? Is there many foreigners living their? regards Graham in London UK

In reference to knives in NAIA, on 12/31/01 left NAIA with a 18 inch bolo in checked luggage, all they do is strap your checked bag at the xray and you cannot open and do any repacking prior to giving it to the airline agent upon check-in. In Manila and all places in RP it is wise to be street smart, but I travel annually to the Bicol province of Catanduanes and I feel safe traveling anywhere, anytime on this particular island. I like it so much that this last trip my wife and I purchased 2.0934 hectares (over 5 acres) with 934 feet of beach front for less than $15,000 for our retirement in several years. Good luck and enjoy your trip.

Thanks alot Bill for all that information the more i think about it the more appealing it is to me I have been to cebu 2 times and Bohol and would like to be more adventerous this time on my travel there, At the moment im not sure when i will be there but i hope for march april time (but could be later in the year), yes i would be interested in staying at your small hotel if you can give me a price for a room would be great thanks. (maybe if you can email thanks) I do know a filipino that lives here in the uk and i might go back with him he lives in a village near Manila called soldiers hill, have you heard of that place? He tells me storries of the rebels there that he has to keep paying off from the harvests of coconut it seems the country only works thru corruption. oh one question In one internet post it's been described as ""Shangri La in what way?

I perpetuated this hoax by getting taken in myself. I is time to shut it down. Please respect my judgment, such as it is and refrain from any mention of viruses. Lets get on with the purpose of the list, Living in the Philippines. I will not make the mistake of mentioning viruses again unless I check with the authorities first and then will only refer you to them, not comment myself as I did last time. Excuse me for my gullibility. I take total responsibility for this foolishness. BUT THE VIRUS TOPIC IS BANNED! Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. And correspondence concerning viruses must be off list.

Please remove me from the list ,as one can read something posted today and be out of order for talking about it as no one goes back five days ago are longer to check what is banned or not banned,and I can see that when some one tries to help is jumped on ,not only on this list but others as I have found instead of removing the new post or the old post that have bum information,you start banning post if you had taken the bad information off then new post would not come up with the same topic,,just my thoughts Remove me now!!!

Pre-paid internet cards are available everywhere. All you need is a computer with a modem and a phone. The cards come with instructions on how to create the dial-up. Just follow thru it and you will be fine. Hope that helps.

You have explained my problems exactly. First, let me apologize for making ""family"" sound like ""business"", but it is my way. If my wife feels she owes a bill, then I surely accept the bill along with her. On the other hand, I understand that if given a free hand, my wife would sell our houses and cars and send it to the PI....and then expect me to make more. She is not a bad filipina...just the opposite, in her culture this would be a good filipina. In the reality of America, and my life, this is just not feasible, as much as I wish it were. So, now, I am stuck. I want to help, within limits, and I want to make my wife happy while helping the folks back home. Again, reality sets in. I cant support 24 people for the rest of their lives. Even without abuses and mistakes, I couldnt do it. So, do I walk away without the effort? I would love to go there, start a business, hire them all and ""control the situation"" so that it would work. Again, reality states, Leila loves the army. So, I cant walk away, I cant live there (yet) and I cant afford their mistakes. I refuse (maybe a bad side of me) to send support (I refuse to call this help) ever month. So, my wife feels unfullfilled, I am concerned for everyones well being and nothing gets done, so everyone loses. So, here is my suggestion for someone already over there. Start a ""consulting"" business that will ""manage"" smaller enterprises for a cut of the profit. Also include, ""school accounts"" that would manage school expenses. In short, since you are there, do the smaller, simple things that we need done until we can get there, and make a couple bucks while doing it. I dont know if this is workable but I would be glad to try to hash this out with anyone willing to try. Maybe we need to find a monk with a minor in accounting that would do it more to help than for the money.(that was a joke) Seriously, if you are there, with time on your hands, want to stay busy and help filipinos and kanos alike, this would be a great opportunity. Then, as we eventually make it over there, you will have a group of already made friends, just waiting to thank you and find ways to repay you. Sidenote: as a non family member, you would not be caught up in the family politics and by consult I mean, your main job would be to let it be know that things ARE being watched.

It looks like Mag Anak has managed to infiltrate this group too...will any Philippine group be safe?? News at 11:00. Just kidding. Actually, I was looking in the news groups for some information on purchasing land in the Philippines and came across Don's post. When I checked out the messages, I noticed a lot of familar names. Anyhow...my question is what would be a reasonable price for land in the Cebu area. Living in California, I know location can make a big difference, so I'm just looking for generalities. My wife told me about the property but I can't remember the name. My sister-in-law is asking our help in buying a piece of land. They are currently living on the side of a steep hill on government land. They aren't sure how long they will be allowed to live there. She has located some land and they are asking 300 pesos per square meter for a piece of property that is about 200 sq m. That's about 60,000 pesos. I was just wondering if this is cheap or expensive. I can try to get the exact location. The other question is how tough is it to buy land there. Here in the US you need realtors, lawyers, banks, title companies, escrow companies, etc. She would be paying cash, but I just want to make sure that if we give her the money, she will get the property.

Yeah, your name looks familiar also. We have been offered agricultural land with banana, papaya, etc trees on it for PhP 300. in Carcar, Cebu. The problem is there are no easements to it. It's landlocked.

Just in case you didnt read my post about a new possible business, here it is again. Start a management business that would oversee small businesses funded by kanos. Control bank accounts set up solely for school expenses. Act as go between for kanos and realtors, lawyers etc. ETC ETC In other words, be our eyes, ears and hands in the PI till we can join you there.

A friend got caught in this situation and now must park all vehicles a long distance from the property and walk to the house. He is real unhappy as it was understood he would always have access. It changed immediately after the sale.