I am in total agreement with you about the Brit origins of ""WC,"" as that was my recall from earlier reading. I believe that the phrase ""water closet"" was coined shortly after such ""closets"" were introduced to English homes in late 19th century. It must have seemed quite fitting at the time to apply a very practical description to something very new and not yet part of the popular culture, i.e., a place in the home where water was piped.

I think the word Water closet has british origins or it says so in PlumbingWorld.com... Why do they call it restroom anyway.... where's the couch or the bed for that matter? LOL!!! I can understand the etymology of comfort room and bathroom ...

As a kid growing up in the late 40s - early 50s, i used to see a lot of bull frogs in and around our neighborhood in the fringes of Manila. During those times, our neighborhood still had the semblance of a countryside. Elders told us that they are not edible or eatable, lots of messy roadkill, and as such they were considered as nuisance. Also, we were told that they were introduced to the Philippine wildlife by the Japanese during the war to augment their food supply. How true these are, to this day, I'm not sure. There used to be a picture in the photo section Robert Warren's daughter toying with one. Whether it's the same specie that i used to know as ""Palakang Hapon"" or Japanese bull frog, i'm not sure either. But there is one cheap delicacy in the Philippines, that I never fail to order whenever I make balikbayan trips, either at a fast-food court or upscale restaurants specializing in native foods, is the lowly ""Kuhol"" or black round snail. Stewed in coconut milk and ginger, yummy... I could finish a bowlful... just make sure you serve it with a sturdy round toothpick to pluck the delicious meat from the shell, otherwise i'll bend a fork finger. How the kuhol compares to the French escargot, I also do not know as I have never tried an escargot. Does any one here know the comparison? As a kid, i never really cared for kuhol. We used to gather them at ""Kangkungans"" by the railroad track and barter for a glass of refreshing Halo-Halô with the proprietor of a neighborhood sari sari store. I guess tastes for exotic foods are acquired at one's adult life, not as a growing up kid when you prefer sweet stuff.

My in-laws are poor, very poor. However, they have never asked me for a single centavo. Even when Papa was in hospital in february, they were embarrassed when I sent P10,000 towards a P100,000 bill! Then he had to go back a month later for the same cost and they borrowed and approached a charity and I didn't pay a penny. Our piggery is a partnership, I put up the capital and they put in the sweat equity. However, the change in Papa from the first day he had to hop a jeepney to start pricing materials has been worth every peso. From a man no longer able to even lift a small piglet, spending his days wandering from chair to chair, unable to smoke, drink or eat anything but rice gruel; he has become a new man. If a man defines himself by how he makes a living, then when he can no longer work, what is he? I could have slipped them a few grand every month as some on this list have advised as being a better way to ""lose"" my money. But now we all have a viable business that will provide all of us with an income, and they still have their pride. Besides, how do you know they would have even taken the money?

I have to say you are right to the point and I would not know a better word as well except maybe a total lack of shame. All in all it depends on the family but I fell it would be correct to say that the majority of the people would not wrangle money from there direct family or in-laws. My brother in-laws would never ask money for a car because that's not the way they are brought up. So to once again underline your response to Jim; No it is not normal if your in-laws and family is asking for a car.

Since you are only hoping to retire 20-22 years from now I would rather suggest you keep control of your own assets, and have them work for you, probably in the United States or through other investment vehicles which you can have better control and flexibility with. IMO - Buying Land to Build a Home ties you down to that area, and the future is just too uncertain. Too many things could change your plans. Plus you have the significant opportunity cost of having your money tied up in land in the Philippines. If you can - I suggest you start pouring as much money as you can into various Tax Free or deferred investments. Roth IRA's and such do come to mind. Don't let the USA government take more of your earnings than is necessary. Good planning can help. You may wish to seek the financial advice of your friends and family. Diversification seems prudent. Don't put too much in interest bearing accounts and bonds, and don't put everything into the stock market or real estate. Watch your expenses. Avoid buying too many luxury, status items (such as New cars), or eating out too often. Save money and invest. IMO you should be careful of investments advisors and such, rather it is preferable to keep control of your own assets - but *do* make investments for growth and income. IMO do not pour assets into the Philippines this far out before you retire - you are losing control, and probably not going to really do better than if you had invested those funds elsewhere. Periodically really think about your Finances, plans and goals, and do what you believe is best. NYYankey - I applaud you for thinking about this early enough to really make a difference.

In the U.S. and many other country's the business practice of bartering is acceptable. If you have something I wish to purchase, such as a car, house, or property, I make an offer and you counter. I'm unfamiliar with the sentiment towards this practice in the Philippines. If I wish to make a major purchase, is it acceptable there to make a lower offer on the asking price. I have been to a few places where it was considered a disgrace to ask a lower price. I'm only talking about major purchases. One other question if I might. I was told that as a foreigner, theres a limit to the amount of land one may lease in the Philippines. Can anyone confirm this for me. If its true, what is the limit?

Actually, I have a thought here. I am interested in the mundane items of building things and living/conducting business in the Phils and _distinctly_ un-interested in what passes for American sport, especially pro football. But certainly it's very important for many. My thought is, what baout taking the tack that Perry, Don and some others interested in their Carabao Polo activities took? Start a se [arate Football in the Phils list. Yahoo lists are free, you cna set one up in 5 minutes, and when you think about it, if you are truly into the game, there is an awful lot of information that could be shared.. much more than would be approriate here. Especially for those who also follow college ball, the sheer amount of data involved with keeping up with players and games seems daunting, but if you truly love the gamne, what would be better than your own special place? If one of the fans who wants to debate what amount of football discussion on the main LinP list wanted to make the small effort of clicking at the 'Start a Group' link at the top of the page, perhaps everyone would be happy on both sides of the 'goal line'. Just a htought.

There are times the list seems to just abound with complaints about Filipino relatives trying to live of the 'rich foreigner'. I'm sure this happens often enough to be a problem, but my experience is as yours, I have yet to receive a single 'request for the blue' and have foolishly embarrassed myself and others a time or two by attempting to rush in with help, when none had been asked for. Mita and I have discussed at some length what people should do if there be a 'non-performing' member inn the family.. someone who won't/can't get a job. By far the ideal situation seems to be shown by your piggery efforts. Not only is there an opportunity for modest money to be made on both sides of the investment/labor team, but most importantly, even if the money barely eeks out to cover the expenses, a man, a woman, a whole family can be made whole. Surely starting a business in partnership with a relative is not for everyone, but it should strongly be considered as putting a family on it's feet with a future is worth far more thna any handout ever could be .... give a man a fish, he eats one day, teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

I was attributing some postings to you, when I probably meant some other posters in the thread. Sorry. From my viewpoint, you have nothing to actually apologize for. I do want to Thank You for being so kind, and helping. I was the one who confusingly enough brought up the somewhat erroneous Ontopic, Offtopic area which Don H had been forced to invoke. I think one of the earlier posters in the thread was making the point that the topic had been adequately covered recently, and could be fairly easily researched for all reasonably available information by using the archives on the message thread. Members are encouraged research on certain items in the archives, especially when the related topic is fairly recent. If it has been a long time since the topic was discussed, personally I find it increasingly difficult to find the relevant messages. However, if someone wished to provide a couple of links or key comments about determining availability of American Football or other sports/TV programs in the Philippines - that would be fine. Perhaps Ron Parker himself will be able to find the answer by using the archives, or maybe one of our members can help. Please give me some allowance if I accidentally mischaracterized something. Anyway in some respects this has gotten too convoluted for me to try to accurately describe. I think Ron Parker - posted the following: I'm visiting in Cebu over the holidays and happen to be a sports fan and specifically a grad of Ohio State which will be playing Miami in the Fiesta Bowl January 3rd - 6PM. Does anyone no where I might catch the game? Will it be televised on local station?

here is yet another tag of which you may be unaware, comparable to ""John."" The ""head"" is of US Navy coinage (I believe) and is popular with military adn ex-military guys. So far you have: bathroom, confort room, water closet, john, restroom, and now ""head."" In Mexico and some Filipino business establishments, one also sees ""bano.""

I think you hit the right word when you state that they are embarrassed to just accept the money. But I did not think you ""lost"" the money. The piggery is still there and in the long run it could still generate some money. I know starting a business with family does have its down sides but at least you know who you are dealing with. For me I would be glad to have my brother in-law back from the Middle East. I would feel better if he was safely in the country. Anyways we will try growing fishes in Laguna and will see what happens. Somehow it also has something attractive to be on the lake and enjoy the fresh air

PS: was wondering why you have to PGP sign your messages. Are you from an IT, internet or similar industry like me? Some folks here might find it unnecessary aside from added bytes in your email Are people really bothered by the few extra bytes? If so, is that by virtue of filling their hard disks faster? Or are they on some kind of system where they have to pay more money for larger emails? It happens that the fellow who installed my email client believes that the world would be a better place if everybody used strong encryption. So he set my email client to automatically sign the emails its sends, in case anybody wants to respond accordingly so as to use encryption in subsequent correspondence. I saw no reason not to go along with that policy, though I'm not necessarily married to it. I do use encryption every once in a while for trade secret purposes. I'll turn off the autosign feature if others confirm that the sig is a nuisance in some way. I guess the rationale might be that if everybody everywhere treated it is as a norm, then repressive governments' snoops would not have their suspicious eyebrows raised every time they intercepted a gobbledegook email? And if it is objected that such thinking cannot persuade after 9/11, the response would be that totalitarian governments like Stalin have killed and oppressed in far more massive proportions than any terrorist thus far. Stalin and his ilk have done it with lower tech means of monitoring the populace, viz. an elaborate and costly spy-on-neighbor system. Think what such could do with even easier means? Even governments which currently are relatively benign could be corrupted in due course by such power at their disposal. Further, today we have a situation where highly repressive governments in the world are _having_ to open themselves up to the outside world just to survive. This entails increasing communication (including emails) among individuals and firms inside and outside those countries. And that, in itself, would seem to hold out enormous potential for positive change over the long run, by creating a tapestry of connections, alliances, shared interests, etc. with _diverse_ people and groups and companies in the repressed country so as to mitigate against the concentration of power at the top. This positive potential, however, is compromised to the extent that governments can monitor communications easily. Strong encryption stands in the way of such a government's efforts. So, then, this line of argument suggests that we would be doing the people in these countries a great favor if we all _insisted_ on strong encryption, among ourselves and with everybody we receive email from, thus making it a worldwide norm or ""given"" for doing business. Individuals, firms and organizations in the Philippines might help in particular, one might argue, because they are in close geographical and/or business proximity to some of the largest and most powerful offending countries. Of course then the anti-privacy side might respond, what about all the horrific child abuse and other mischief that people are perpetrating using private communications? Then the pro-privacy side might respond, isn't it better to spend more money on targeted law enforcement efforts to infiltrate the terrorists, pedophiles, etc. than to give governments and others a carta blanche for snooping this increasingly prevalent and indispensable medium of human communication? The debate goes on.

Everyone seems to want to know about starting a business in the Philippines. I guess I'm right along with them. I think the main reason is because there are many small businesses you can buy into for 5-10 thousand dollars. You just can't do that in the U.S. Here in the states, people want 7-8 bucks an hour to work for you. They want insurance, benefits, and retirement. On top of all that, the huge chain stores, and restaurants, will drive you out of business. They have tremendous buying power. If you start a small restaurant or fast food business in the states, your main source of applicants, for the wage your willing to pay, are high school/college kids. I know from personal experience, that many times these kids are unreliable. Don't get me wrong, there are great workers here, but in the Pizza business I run, my employees are constantly calling in sick, or their car broke down, etc. Most are still living on mom and dads money, and missing a day of work won't hurt them, but it puts a lot of strain on the business. After reading about the culture of the Philippines, the workers there seem to be somewhat more reliable. Probably, because they need every penny for their family. I want to move to the Philippines permantly, but can't do so without some income of around 600 U.S. dollars a month. I've been brainstorming about what type of business to try there in Cebu. As I said in my previous post, I will be recieving $1500 dollars a month for the next 4 years, and I want to invest at least $800 a month on a business in the Philippines. It is my sincere hope that after 4 years, I will be able to generate at least $600 a month to live on for the rest of my life. Someone told me to try a sari-sari first. I was also wondering about a food stand on the street. I understand that many people there eat from street vendors. I was thinking about a BBQ type business. I love to BBQ. Do filippino's like to eat BBQ? I'm not trying to get rich. I just want to try to make a profit of say U.S. $20 a day. If I can do that 6 days a week, I'll make almost $500 a month. That's all I'm trying to do, is make enough to live on. Does anyone think this type of profit is attainable from a roadside business? Am I allowed to own a business in the Philippines? I know I'll have to pay taxes to the government there, but can I legally own a small business. I have no relation to any Filippino's. Please help with my questions if you can.

To cut to the chase, you must have a Filipino partner to have a legal interest in a business in the RP. Lots of expats don't bother putting their name on any paper and conduct business, but they have no enforceable legal rights or can be reported and deported. Although there are similar requirements in Mexico for non-legal residents of Mexico to work or be involved in business activities there, it is much easier for foreign nationals to conduct business in Mexico informally than in the RP (IMHO). My first wife was a Mexican national and I had some experience in her home area (Chih State).

Wow! I'm relatively new to this list. I attended my first gathering this past Sunday in Cebu. I am so far very disappointed. My slow connection in my hotel in Cebu 28.8 has prevented me from connecting often. I'm sincerely interested in the subject matter of this forum. I'm really surprised by the debate generated by my simple inquiry about something very specific related to life in Cebu. I did not want to discuss or debate football. It is not often that my alumni plays for the national championship. I really don't believe that moving here and living here means giving up all that is part of your interests and culture. Just as I seek and find Filipino cultural activities and associations for my wife in NY. @Dear Ron, Thank you for expressing your concerns. And thank you for attending the party. You are certainly correct, moving and living here does not mean giving up anything that is part of your interest and culture, unless it is not available here, like Cable Internet connections. We do have DSL. And you are right in your statement, below: I thought this group was genuine in it's interest in helping others and learning from one another. I guess it just depends on the topic. @Yes, Ron, that is exactly the way it works. We don't talk about football or polo or anything ""generally,"" only as it applies to the Philippines. When the football post was started it was on topic, related to the Philippines. Can I get games in on Philippine TV. Then someone posted a pure football post having nothing to do with the Philippines, just promoting his team. That was not on topic and I spoke to it as being off topic and why. I also mentioned we have a chat feature and you can talk about anything you want on members on that. And you can talk with member off list directly about anything you like. Dave Starr made a suggestion for a list for those of us who are interested in football. I like that. Football of expats living in the Philippines would be great. But I have been over here deprived of most football so long, I don't know much about it now, though I miss it. I do check the NO Saints website, and this year I have found the first encouraging news in years, they are having a wining season. I am thrilled, but don't talk about it on the List, but with my friends in Louisiana also nuts. @Posts must be ""on topic,"" as defined in the rules and welcome message. If you want to talk about fishing, lures, tackle, boats, etc, ""generally,"" there are many lists where those subjects are appropriate, good ones where you will get great information. But if you want to talk about fishing in the Philippines, this may be the best place to do it. Mailing list are categorized into topics. The this one is about the Philippines. So we try to keep the post ""Philippine related,"" and directly so, not mentioning the Philippines just in passing. BTW - thanks to those few who extended a welcome to me any my family on Sunday in Cebu (Dave, Tom). @If I did not say hello to you, Ron, please forgive me. I was inundated and confused by all the new faces being late and maybe the San Miguel. I know, given the opportunity others and I would have welcomed you also. But these gatherings have so many folks and faces change at every meeting, I am not sure who is who. And often we have folks come join us at the table who are not members of living in the Philippines or care about it at all, just to enjoy the company. When I see foreigners in Ratsky's, I often invite them to sit with us. I think we may have the friendliest group of foreigners in Cebu. But that may not be saying much, since we may be the only group and are, as far as I know. @I hope you join us again at the next get together, and introduce yourself to everyone or have Dave or Tom do so. I know they would be happy to do so and so would I. Maybe we should wear name tags at our next party. I had the though to make them, but not the time, this time. Your post gives me more impetus to implement that project. All I need is time.

You can live on $500 to $600 a month fairly easily. Not a lavish life style, but you can get by on that or even less if you want to. In 4 years can you generate $600. a month from businesses you have started? IMO I really doublt it. I would say save some more money until you are better off. But that's my way of doing things and not for everyone. There are those that will disagree and even some here that are trying the very same thing. Read the recent posts and archive messages and go for it if you feel you have enough business background and can pick enterprizes that will make a go of it. Actually if at the end of 4 years if you can not stay then at least you gave it a shot, if that's what you really want to do.

let's talk! You can do well on your money/budget. However, you need a fleet of roadside stalls. There is a limit to how much food you can dispense from a stall. Look up my post on food stalls in the archives for some ideas. You will need to register with the BIR for tax, the Mayor must give you a Mayor's permit, then there are health permits to be obtained, plus you might need police and Baranguay clearence on your employees and so on. On a tourist visa you can't do it legally, period. Without more income you can't get a retirement visa or a business visa, you need to put tens of thousands up as a bond or something. Marrying a Filipina to get a 13a is insufficient reason for marriage in my book. I would suggest you use someone like my company secretary to make you legal. He (or whoever you choose) can obtain permanent resident status for you, introduce you to potential business partners, perhaps working on a lease arrangement of their personality as he puts it. In other words you rent their status and pay them a fee for having them front your business on paper. In legal terms, they are a partner, but a silent one or non-executive. I am in the process of forming a partnership with my parents in law and my wife for the piggery. It will cost about US$400 to set up and be legal. There is no value in being outside the law anywhere, especially in a place like this where you are far from home (almost like getting a traffic ticket in Alabama, I believe) You do not want to spend a night in a local gaol (jail). I can introduce you to the people I know and work with here but Caveat Emptor. I trust them and am very happy with them, they are now friends as well as colleagues but you need to make your own assessment. You do not know me and just because I am a foreigner doesn't mean I am not trying to scam you, either. There are plenty of criminal foreigners here, believe me. (why is it when we are overseas we tend to trust our countrymen more than the locals at first meeting? Is it a subliminal racism thing? This is an observation and broad statement, don't take me literally, I don't mean anyone in particular, of course). There are many opportunities here, but apply the universal rule; you only get back what you put out. There are no free lunches. Again, I am happy to answer any specific questions although for the next few days I am on Malapascua and very busy with my own business efforts, so replies might be delayed. Keep your dream alive, Carl and always ask, would I do that back home? Cheers, Perry Everyone seems to want to know about starting a business in the Philippines. I guess I'm right along with them. I think the main reason is because there are many small businesses you can buy into for 5-10 thousand dollars. You just can't do that in the U.S. Here in the states, people want 7-8 bucks an hour to work for you. They want insurance, benefits, and retirement. On top of all that, the huge chain stores, and restaurants, will drive you out of business. They have tremendous buying power. If you start a small restaurant or fast food business in the states, your main source of applicants, for the wage your willing to pay, are high school/college kids. I know from personal experience, that many times these kids are unreliable. Don't get me wrong, there are great workers here, but in the Pizza business I run, my employees are constantly calling in sick, or their car broke down, etc. Most are still living on mom and dads money, and missing a day of work won't hurt them, but it puts a lot of strain on the business. After reading about the culture of the Philippines, the workers there seem to be somewhat more reliable. Probably, because they need every penny for their family. I want to move to the Philippines permantly, but can't do so without some income of around 600 U.S. dollars a month. I've been brainstorming about what type of business to try there in Cebu. As I said in my previous post, I will be recieving $1500 dollars a month for the next 4 years, and I want to invest at least $800 a month on a business in the Philippines. It is my sincere hope that after 4 years, I will be able to generate at least $600 a month to live on for the rest of my life. Someone told me to try a sari-sari first. I was also wondering about a food stand on the street. I understand that many people there eat from street vendors. I was thinking about a BBQ type business. I love to BBQ. Do filippino's like to eat BBQ? I'm not trying to get rich. I just want to try to make a profit of say U.S. $20 a day. If I can do that 6 days a week, I'll make almost $500 a month. That's all I'm trying to do, is make enough to live on. Does anyone think this type of profit is attainable from a roadside business? Am I allowed to own a business in the Philippines? I know I'll have to pay taxes to the government there, but can I legally own a small business. I have no relation to any Filippino's. Please help with my questions if you can.

Some attorneys will not mention the existence of this law to you, an if you ask, they say,""this is the way it is done."" Well, it is. But it is also the way to get in trouble. There are legal ways to do business here. But you can own forty percent of the business, only 40 percent. But if you hold the lease, the technology, the expertise, the equipment or other important thing you can own, you can assure yourself you well get your part of the profits. You can be an investor and legally exercise a lot of influence. What many of bar owners do (I use this example because it is the most common for westerners if the are not married or don't trust their wives) is to lease the building for a bar. They can do that legally. Then get a Filipino partner. If he partner tries to mess with you, you can padlock the door and there are other ways to deal with him or her. But you are an investor and part, minority owner, not sole owner. And though you and the Filipino partner may be great friends at first, because of cultural misunderstandings, often the demands put on him or her by the extended family and often because foreigners rarely know what they are doing here until they have taken a few falls, the relations ship may go bad like a marriage can or a commercial marriage can, the latter more apt to go bad as it was done for greed in the first place. So be an investor to make your money. You can be in the establishment, articulate the policy you would like and as the investor pull the plug if it does not go the way you want it. Always be in a position to pull the plug on them, and not let them to be in the position of pulling the plug on you. Be clean and they will have a hard time flushing you. Important information below for those interested in doing business here. I also recommend the Philippine Labor Law, and some other books previously mentioned by Russ a very successful business man who has done business here for many years. Maybe these post will find him and get him posting again. I hope so.

I think you are confusing bartering with bargaining, bartering is when you exchange one commodity (except money) for another commodity, ie. you exchange one pig for 2 goats. Bargaining is when you are offered a price and try to get at a lower price. Regarding bargaining it is very common here as in many other asian Countries. In street markets, except for say food and few other small items it is a must. In shops it also acceptable and recently I have succesfully obtained discounts below ticket cash price (as it shows credit card price as well) in SM and Landmark when offering cash when buying larger items. Car, property, houses is a must.

I think $600USD per month would leave a couple pretty 'thin' especially in a city setting ... but _can_ you live on it? Certainly .. millions of Filipinos raise whole familes on much less. The real question is _will_ you live on it? Only the person asking the question can truly answer that, because everyone (rightfully) has their own prefernces, their own tolerance for comfort/discomfort and their own bargaining skills for making wise purchase. Come here and try things out for a while, and then ask yourself...it's the best way.

Your questions are many. In my humble opinion, my answer is simple. You mentioned that you could go there for 4 years and have $1500 a month for 4 years, in a previous post, and after that you would have to go back to work. Here is my suggestion. Take a vacation or two, visit the Philippines, and ""stick a toe in the water"". If you are still interested, ""get your feet wet"" and try a leave of absense from work and spend a few months exploring a few of the 7,107 islands that are called the Philippine Islands. After that, you may have all of your questions answered and be ready to ""dive in"". I have been working the same angle for about ten years now and will be moving there within the next 3 to 5. Take your time.

I just read the post about an internet cafe there in Cebu. I did some quick math, and can't figure how in the world you'd make profit with one. If you had 12 computers, and charged 20 Php per half hour, and each computer stayed busy full time 8 hours a day: In my calculations that totals 3840 Php total. That's about $72 american a day. After overhead, all the electricity, etc, your not going to clear much, if any. The electric alone for 12 computers each going 8 or more hours a day would eat a big chunk. Then theres the server, and phone bill. The light bill. The price of the lease on the building. I don't see how all the cafe's there are making it. And remember my calculations are based on the fact that every computer is being used constantly at least 8 hours a day. I'd like to know by anyone who frequents internet cafe's, if you can tell me on the average day, how busy is the cafe? Do you notice many vacant computers? Or is it pretty steady with business? Now in all fairness to the cafe's, I must say I didn't calculate everything in. I know they also make money from computer print outs. Copies, and some make business cards and invitations for people. I'd be curious to know what copies and faxes cost there in Cebu? If anyone knows please post it. I had considered an internet cafe myself, but now I'm not so sure.

I've recently read the posted messages about starting businesses in the Philippines. I too had wanted to try and open a business, but after reading all the advice by people, it seems hopeless. It seems that 99% of people say a business is tremendously difficult there. They say you should get to know the culture, and that if you had ten years you still wouldn't know the culture well enough. I live in the good old U.S.A. Everyday I see foreigners come into this country and start businesses. My girlfriend gets her nails done by an Asian owned nail shop. The owner told me he came here with $5000 dollars and lots of determination. He now owns 3 shops, and all his family is employed. He must not be doing too bad, because he drives a nice Lexus, that costs more than my house. I stop every day on my way to work at a local Citgo gas station. It's owned by a middle eastern man. He came over here and didn't speak hardly any english. He says it was very difficult just to understand people. He borrowed $50,000 from his brother, and $20,000 from his other family, to open a business. Next summer he told me he's bringing his oldest son here to head up another store he's opening across town. He must be doing o.k. because he was very proud to say he'd paid his family back all their money in only 2 years. My point is, that many people start businesses every day in country's they know little about. I recently recieved an email from a gentleman that owns 2 bars in the Philippines. He told me 4 years ago he went to Manilla with his total life savings of $42,000 dollars. His goal was to open a business, and give it his all. He did so well with his first bar, he decided to open another. He told me he's now set for life. Is he telling the truth? I have no idea, but he did email me a couple of pictures of him on his boat fishing. Again by the way the pictures looked, he wasn't doing too bad. That boat cost 5 times more than my car. I was briefly inspired by all this success. However I just learned something I didn't know. I read on a post that if your not related to a Filippino in any way, then you can only own 40% of a business here. It now all seems hopeless to me. I don't know any Filippinos. If I did, how many would be willing to go into business with me, or even have the means to do so? Are there many Filippino's waiting for chances to open a business with an American? I called a lawyer, and he said the government rarely enforces that law, especially if you are employing local Filippinos. I understand his point, but I'm not one to break the law. I can see it now, I open a business, I make a nice profit, and a couple years from now, when I least expect it, I get arrested by the government, and shipped back to the USA with nothing but the shirt on my back. Well, enough of my ranting and raving. I just wonder if it indeed is hopeless, to come over there, and open a business, that brings a profit.

It's not so hopeless. There are a lot of foreigners with thriving businesses in the Philippines. The best restaurants in Metro Manila are owned by foreigners. A successful importer of gourmet products now has a small chain of stores in Makati. I know about these businesses having worked in a restaurant group in the Philippines. Do something you know well and get involved 100% and you CAN be successful. I'm not just an optimist but have seen it with my own eyes. One of my boss's good friend, an American, started a phone answering service years ago in Ortigas. It was very successful but was closed down since it was a phone sex hotline and the public did not take kindly to it. I even recommended a good friend of mine to work as his assistant. He is still in the Philippines with his Filipino partners - this time supplying gourmet veggies to 5-star restaurants and hotels. As far as I know, he absolutelty had no experience in this business. My friend is still working for him and tells me they are doing very well. They do not grow all their produce and buy from nearby farms in Cavite and Tagaytay. You have to find the right person to help you out in the Philippines. Yes, we have laws that require majority Filipino ownership in business. The best way is to find a trustworthy, small Filipino company or an individual who can lend their name to your business - for a monthly or annual fee. Is this legal? I don't know, perhaps Atty. Tess can shed more light on this. But I have to say, it is done everyday. The thing that can land you in jail in the Philippines is to mistreat Filipinos, they'll report you to the authorities if they find out you are doing something illegal. If you don't do anything illegal then you are fine.

Quite a sad post...it looks like you are finding excuses to avoid doing something on your own. My first wife was the same way. She would talk about ""opening a business"" with some of her girlfriends. She didn't know what kind of business, didn't realize that partnerships, especially with friends, are the worst kinds of business relationships, didn't have any training or experience, but she wanted to ""open a business."" Rather than talking about all the obstacles in your way, just do it. BTW, do you know what kind of a business you plan to start?

Your question is too open-ended. How many ways can someone say ""$1,500"" per month? And that is today, not 20 years from now when peso vs dollar will be entirely different and inflation factor might be 200%, like Argentina. Also, everyone's requirements are different, and a lot depends on what part of the RP one would settle in. There are some calculations you can make to determine how much of an investment, at a fixed rate of return, you would need to continue getting a set amount of money each month without touching the principal. However, such calculations do not take into account expiration of interest rates on time deposits, with lower rates only available at future times, and the market going belly up for even conservative mutual fund investments. Anyway, Steve, your question below is pretty hard to adequately answer.

I've been watching the rise and fall of internet cafes in the RP over the last 5 years. Their history seems to parallel video stores in the US -- touted as turnkey investments for folks with investment money but little specialized experience. Eventually, the small video stores disappeared because they couldn't compete with the big stores, cheaper merchandise or access to new movies. Matter of fact, some people in the RP who did make lots of money were franchisers of internet cafes who would set everything up, collect their money, then walk away. Diversification is the key. Cafes near schools rely on students using pc's for schoolwork or for games. Office services and refreshments also make a difference. But the average small-scale internet cafe using dialup internet access and modem-sharing software hasn't a chance unless it's situated in the boonies somewhere, but then it won't make enough money from the locals from connectivity alone to be worth the effort (IMHO).

Internet cafes may have been good idea a few years ago but not anymore. The more successful ones are those doing business near major universities in Metro Manila. They have a steady clientele of students. Other services like photocopying, fax, printing, snacks and coffee perhaps can all add up to boost the business and make it profitable at the least. I suggest some of you guys think of manufacturing for export - Furniture, clothing, even Christmas decorations. You have your foreign connections and know the markets abroad. What the Philippines needs most is your experience from your own country. Filipinos are great with design and are copied by other manufacturers in other countries. Couple that with cheap labor, you should be able to make a go of a small manufacturing enterprise. Here's a link that may help you:

Don't you think all these people would much rather stay in their own country if business was on a level playing field, every immigrant I know coming here, is coming to make the american buck. It's a hell of a lot easier here than anywhere in the world by a mile, what other reason would people wan't to come here for ?? I think knowing the culture is just one facet of being in business, when you start a business in the Phils you are a minority and everyone is against you they don't have minority set-asides like we do here , if you are a minority here they throw business your way, anywhere else in the world it's a disadvantage. I am in the construction business for 40 plus years and roughly 15% of our work has to be given to minority and women business enterprises. You come here as minority and you get every advantage known to man, we deal with the federal and state goverments daily I have personnaly had it with this crap, my wife who is filipino will get work handed to her as soon as she registers as a minority business, no bids no nothing they will just set aside work for her. Heck I told my wife I'll loan her all she wants if she'll go into business. My family came here from Ireland and none of them went back disappointed .

I hear you. I've helped a lot of people put up gaming businesses too. They all started with gaming first and then had internet connections installed to allow surfing. Then they added desktop publishing services and other computer related services. The busiest ones so far are the ones closest to universities.. The disadvantages to this location is that they have 2 months or lower income due to the summer break. Although universities still have summer classes, their enrollment is just a percentage of the regular enrolees. There is a big internet cafe which diversified into one dedicated to music downloads only (for personal use of course). Its a big hit to the younger set. At P100 per cd for a max of 5 songs, with a minimal costing on electricity and p15 for the recordable cd and some ink for the personalized cd label...imagine the profit margin.

From what i have seen and read about opening business there its a no no. Its a shame in one way why the Philippines government does not relax the law of a foreigner only allowed to own 40% but there reasons are that its taking something away from them. Im sure if the law was changed then the Philippines would have a chance to grow economically and become a bigger force in the Asian area. After all every nationality in the world comes to London and opens a business even the government here will give them money to start a business and many thrive. The biggest drawback there in the R.P. the country runs on corruption from the highest to the lowest It will never change IMO

It's been a while since I've posted and I will soon be leaving for a trip to RP, so I thought I'd post to just say ""hello"" to the group and ramble a bit. No specific questions or requests... I will arrive on New Years day and will visit the beautiful Philippine Islands (my third trip) for just 5 days. I will, in all probability, become engaged during this trip. Needless to say, I am very much looking forward to the future. I am still fairly young (31) and don't yet have a large nest egg built up, but reading of the life you all desribe on this list makes me long to join you. Oh, if only I could SOME WAY figure out how to generate a reliable $1000 / month income for an indefinite period! Living in a seaside house on one of the provinces with the woman who will hopefully become my wife has very strong appeal. Relatively carefree days, lots of natural beauty, a loving wife... Who could ask for more??? I think the only downer might be that it could get difficult seeing all of the poverty and often fruitless struggle that exists on a daily basis. Such kind people deserve so much better... It really struck me how it seems to be such a world of extremes and contrasts - such desperate poverty in the middle of such stunning beauty... I am employed in the computer industry as a software engineer and am SO fed up with the rat race that is corporate America! My field sort of lends itself to working from a remote location and setting your own hours. If only I could come up with an idea for a profitable website to run, do some contract programming, etc... I do have quite a bit of computer science education, but business is not at all my forte. And, being in the field I'm in, I'm obviously a left-brainer, so I lack that creative spark that comes from the right brain to actually come up with an idea of a way to use my trade to let me live among the mountains and by the sea! I am also into basic investing with stocks and options, but don't have nearly enough capital to make a go of earning a living at it. That would be another field that would lend itself to working from a remote location... So, I think I will just have to stick out a career here until I have the financial ability to retire free-and-clear. But by that time (decades), who knows if my desires will have changed, if my wife will be agreeable, etc... For that matter, who knows what kind of country the Philippines will be in 25 - 30 years??? Anyway, I won't go on much longer here. To those who made it this far, I'm impressed! I want to wish everybody the most blessed of Christmas holidays and a very, very happy 2003. The people on this group certainly seem to be very deserving of both! Take care everybody and I wish you well!

I know a woman that gets less than $.15 an hr at an internet cafe and as a maid combined in Cebu. She told me that they don't get much money. An internet cafe in Hong Kong for pinoys sounds like a much more profitable place. I know a place that has filipina maids as its customers right in Central. They also sell phone cards to! They charge $10 HKG or $1.28 USD or 67php per hour, but their one day of business is Sunday!