Author Topic: Guns in the Philippines  (Read 14550 times)

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2013, 08:19:17 AM »
When I acquire my dual citizenship, I'll run for President and if I do win, I will fix the peso rate at P37.50 until further notice no matter where it's sitting at, since there's so much talk about it lately going to 37.50, but all the price indexes across the board will go down as well and afterwards I'll give myself a pay raise and take a long vacation and let my Vice President run the country for a few months and Joseph Estrada as Treasurer with Imelda his secretary!
I will also proclaim that the Philippines will be "weapons free" nationwide a total gun ban even the local police, but the military will stay at full strength!
There will be a tourist 90 day free entry permit in effect immediately and the VAT & SIN Tax abolished, but the condoms will still be free, distributed by WOW, prostitution will be legalized, but pimping or escort agencies will not be! All professional sex workers will carry current health cards, violators will be detained or quarantined until found fit to socialize.
Divorce will be immediately legalized with support of minors until 18 yrs of age!
There will be no more highway toll booths and all vehicles will no longer run on gas or diesel, but on other alternative resources and no more smoke belching jeepneys and or passenger tricycles, all has to be new electric vehicles or by other means! If a taxi's meter is broke, the fare is free within a 25 mile radius and one can tip the driver what they think it's worth!
Other priority of business; more free medical clinics open to the poor and more free or assisted college tuition programs! All public schools up to high school is free and free bus service will be provided! 
When I get back from my vacation, it will be business as usual and it will surely be more fun in the Philippines!
So, tell all of your Filipino friends to vote for me or not since I'm just being a wise_ss! ??? :o ;)     
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 02:29:36 AM by Gray Wolf »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline Lee2

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2013, 09:24:03 PM »
Art my friend, you had my vote until you said no guns.  ;) Bad people will always have guns, so good people need them too. If only we could live in a world that was totaly gun free, then I would accept no guns but that is impossible, so laws for no guns will only keep the guns out of the hands of those who need them most.

Also if the peso hits 37.50 I am going to bet a lot less expats are going to live in the Philippines. Right now with it around 40, I know of a lot of people struggling to make ends meet.
:) Happily married since 1994 & live part of the year in Cebu and the rest in S. Florida.

Offline Palawan Aussie

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2013, 10:51:55 PM »
When I acquire my dual citizenship, I'll run for President .. I will proclaim that the Philippines will be "weapons free" nationwide (and) more free medical clinics open to the poor and more free or assisted college tuition programs! All public schools up to high school is free ..  tell all of your Filipino friends to vote for me ..

Art, you should ideed stand. Gun control, free medical care, and free elementary schools. Well said!!

Regarding the Phils being "weapons free", YES! Although I understand Lee's concerns, Australia is virtually a guns-free country, and it works very well. I cannot remember, in my whole lifetime, of any news report of any crime (robbery, murder etc) involving a handgun. I don't think i have even seen a handgun in real life, including in any shop here. Farmers and hunters can own rifles and shotguns, but must pass written tests, and be licensed and have a locked gun safe in their homes which are all then gov inspected. Pistols and any automatic weapons are completely illegal. No one would hunt with them.

It's a very safe place in terms of guns.

We created this by having a nation-wide gun amnesty, and the government bought and destroyed all the weapons handed-in. I know many other countries have such restrictions on handguns. It IS certainly do-able. And so Art, and also the Philippines, good luck with that.

Many/most doctors, specialists, hospitals and also schools here are also free. People can pay their schools a few hundred dollars per year, but it's not compulsory. And a while ago we had a relative who spent a week in intensive care in hospital, under specialists, and then two weeks in their own hospital room, with excellent meals and excellent nursing care, all completely free. It's possible!  :D

But if I were you I'd start with the abolition of the pork barrel system, the Phils practice under which legislators are allocated government spending, for projects of their choosing, intended to benefit their constituents in return for their political support and their votes.

The first thing to do once elected would be to file a Bill eliminating the pork barrel, or the priority development assistance fund (PDAF) for legislators. Then, allocate this money as equity capital for housing projects for the poor. Every senator gets P267 million per year, while every congressman has P70 million per year. That's more than P50 billion. Apparently it's not that hard to pocket funds.

Instead, the pork barrel funds might readily be pooled and turned into securities, the interest of which could be used to provide loans to the poor under mechanisms that aren't dependent on real estate capital. The idea would be to provide credit to ordinary Filipinos, without requiring land titles as collateral. In the Phils, without real estate collateral, it's very difficult to take out a home loan.

The Phils needs to find a way such that credit can be liberalized. Credit should be made available to ordinary Filipinos with good character, through good viable projects, that can give them a chance to improve their life.

Then Art, this should naturally lead to the eradication of another problem for Philippine society, political dynasties. Political dynasties are naturally generated by the pork barrel system because the system can encourage greed and corruption. By abolishing the pork barrel, you eliminate two evils. The connection is quite obvious. If you are a family enjoying more than P200 million in pork barrel per year, you WILL be tempted to continue and pass your position on to your offspring so that this income will continue.

I understand around  70 percent of those in power in the Philippines belonged to political dynasties. So, the same names, the same faces, but little change. That's one reason why so many don't care who they vote for, it's all just the same family in their area.

But the Philippines is a wonderful country in so many ways. So, good luck, "The Art of Politics" :D :D :D



Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 11:25:53 PM »
When I acquire my dual citizenship, I'll run for President .. I will proclaim that the Philippines will be "weapons free" nationwide (and) more free medical clinics open to the poor and more free or assisted college tuition programs! All public schools up to high school is free ..  tell all of your Filipino friends to vote for me ..

Art, you should ideed stand. Gun control, free medical care, and free elementary schools. Well said!!

Regarding the Phils being "weapons free", YES! Although I understand Lee's concerns, Australia is virtually a guns-free country, and it works very well. I cannot remember, in my whole lifetime, of any news report of any crime (robbery, murder etc) involving a handgun. I don't think i have even seen a handgun in real life, including in any shop here. Farmers and hunters can own rifles and shotguns, but must pass written tests, and be licensed and have a locked gun safe in their homes which are all then gov inspected. Pistols and any automatic weapons are completely illegal. No one would hunt with them.

It's a very safe place in terms of guns.

We created this by having a nation-wide gun amnesty, and the government bought and destroyed all the weapons handed-in. I know many other countries have such restrictions on handguns. It IS certainly do-able. And so Art, and also the Philippines, good luck with that.

Many/most doctors, specialists, hospitals and also schools here are also free. People can pay their schools a few hundred dollars per year, but it's not compulsory. And a while ago we had a relative who spent a week in intensive care in hospital, under specialists, and then two weeks in their own hospital room, with excellent meals and excellent nursing care, all completely free. It's possible!  :D

But if I were you I'd start with the abolition of the pork barrel system, the Phils practice under which legislators are allocated government spending, for projects of their choosing, intended to benefit their constituents in return for their political support and their votes.

The first thing to do once elected would be to file a Bill eliminating the pork barrel, or the priority development assistance fund (PDAF) for legislators. Then, allocate this money as equity capital for housing projects for the poor. Every senator gets P267 million per year, while every congressman has P70 million per year. That's more than P50 billion. Apparently it's not that hard to pocket funds.

Instead, the pork barrel funds might readily be pooled and turned into securities, the interest of which could be used to provide loans to the poor under mechanisms that aren't dependent on real estate capital. The idea would be to provide credit to ordinary Filipinos, without requiring land titles as collateral. In the Phils, without real estate collateral, it's very difficult to take out a home loan.

The Phils needs to find a way such that credit can be liberalized. Credit should be made available to ordinary Filipinos with good character, through good viable projects, that can give them a chance to improve their life.

Then Art, this should naturally lead to the eradication of another problem for Philippine society, political dynasties. Political dynasties are naturally generated by the pork barrel system because the system can encourage greed and corruption. By abolishing the pork barrel, you eliminate two evils. The connection is quite obvious. If you are a family enjoying more than P200 million in pork barrel per year, you WILL be tempted to continue and pass your position on to your offspring so that this income will continue.

I understand around  70 percent of those in power in the Philippines belonged to political dynasties. So, the same names, the same faces, but little change. That's one reason why so many don't care who they vote for, it's all just the same family in their area.

But the Philippines is a wonderful country in so many ways. So, good luck, "The Art of Politics" :D :D :D



Whatever you're smoking I want a kilo the next time I visit.  I won't break Forum rules by posting Australian crime statistics here, but expect a long, detailed personal email quoting Australian government statistics. 

Pull your head out of the sand, PA.  Until just now I thought you were an intelligent gentleman.

I stand shoulder to shoulder with Lee.  Until they can guarantee that no criminal can get his hands on a firearm, then I will choose to defend myself and my family with sufficient firepower to make certain they are not a threat.
Louisville, KY USA

Offline Palawan Aussie

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2013, 11:55:28 PM »
Hmm. Apparently most Philippine people agree with Art.

Here's the first three Google hits, searching for "Philippines gun control"

News Item One

"Philippines Congress likely to take up gun control measure soon"

Three out of every four Filipinos support a policy of strict firearms ownership laws

By Gilbert P. Felongco, CorrespondentPublished: 14:04 April 27, 2013
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/philippines/philippines-congress-likely-to-take-up-gun-control-measure-soon-1.1175797

Manila: Congress will most likely tackle gun ownership reforms when it convenes next year, key leaders of the Lower Chamber said, citing the rash of incidents involving firearms, in the Philippines and abroad.

“I am for a policy of strict gun control,” Speaker Feliciano Belmonte Jr said in reaction to results of a survey indicating that three out of every four Filipinos or 75 per cent, support a policy of strict firearms ownership laws or “gun control.”

According to Belmonte, tighter gun control measures would most likely be among the many issues to be taken up when the 16th Congress convenes in July.

Amidst this backdrop, Rep. Marcelino Teodoro of the first congressional district of Marikina City, underscored the need for comprehensive, sustainable and stricter regulations on all types of firearms in the country.
--

News Item Two

"Most Pinoys want massive gun control"

By Kim Arveen Patria | Yahoo! Southeast Asia Newsroom – Tue, Apr 23, 2013
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/most-pinoys-want-massive-gun-control-095034132.html

An overwhelming majority of Filipinos think the widespread use of guns causes crime and should thus be controlled, new poll results released Tuesday showed.

Three out of four Filipinos support gun control policies, based on a Mar. 16-21 survey of 1,800 adults nationwide.

More Filipinos (78 percent) prefer a law that allows only law enforcers and licensed security guards to carry firearms in public places.

A law which allows all licensed holders to carry guns anywhere they like is meanwhile favored by 22 percent of respondents.

The survey was conducted during a period when news about violence and crimes involving the use og guns, among others "preoccupied Filipinos," Pulse Asia said.

These include the standoff between Malaysian and Filipino forces in Sabah, and the filing of cases against 14 police officers involved in the Atimonan bloodbath.

Meanwhile, the ratio of respondents who agree that "guns and their proliferation are a major cause of crime and violence in the country" rose to 67 percent from 64 percent in October 2000.

A smaller ratio of respondents, 13 percent versus, don't think guns cause crime and violence.

Support for gun control was echoed by Pinoys across all geographic areas and socioeconomic classes.

Metro Manila posted the highest support rate of 87 percent but even Mindanao respondents, who were least inclined to support gun control showed a majority score of 66 percent.

Broken down by socioeconomic status, support for gun control was highest among higher-income classes ABC (68 percent).
--

News Item Three

"Senate passes tighter gun control bill"

By Norman Bordadora
Philippine Daily Inquirer
6:07 pm | Tuesday, February 5th, 2013
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/353069/senate-passes-tighter-gun-control-bill#ixzz2UPicy0RR

MANILA, Philippines—The Senate has approved on third and final reading Sen. Panfilo Lacson’s comprehensive bill on guns and ammunition that again imposes Marcosian penalties such as imprisonment of at least 30 years for illegal possession of firearms...

Congress in 1997 enacted a law that brought down the penalties for illegal possession of firearms. Lacson said it was about time the penalties were brought back up.

“The penalties should be made harsher because many crimes are attributed to the use of firearms and the use of guns, the display of guns and the commission of crimes using guns have become too blatant,” Lacson told reporters.

“But more than that, the reason why [the proposed bill] is comprehensive is that even the safety features of how to use and how to possess guns are provided for. For instance, having a vault [for keeping the gun] at home. It also provides for which persons are authorized to possess and carry firearms,” Lacson added.

According to Honasan, public hearings on the proposed measure have shown that while there are 600,000 to 800,000 registered firearms in the Philippines, there are as many unlicensed guns across the country.

Aside from the stiffer penalties on illegal acquisition and possession of guns, Honasan said the bill would punish illegal distributors and manufacturers of firearms.

“It’s like [our strategy] in the dangerous drugs law, we intend to hit the source and go for supply reduction and, at the same time, demand reduction,” Honasan said.

Under the proposed bill, illegal possession of a small firearm is punishable with prision mayor (six years and one day to 12 years in prison) in its medium period; illegal possession of three or more small arms, reclusion temporal (12 years and one day to 20 years) to reclusion perpetua (at least 30 years); illegal possession of a Class A light weapon, prision mayor in its maximum period; and illegal possession of a Class B light weapon, reclusion perpetua.

The penalties imposed would be one degree higher if the firearms illegally possessed were under any or a combination of the following conditions: loaded with ammunition or inserted with a loaded magazine; fitted or mounted with laser or any gadget used to guide the shooter in hitting the target such as a thermal weapon sight and the like; fitted with sniper scopes, firearm muffler or firearm silencer; accompanied with an extra barrel; and converted to be fired semi-automatic or full automatic.

The bill passed on final reading in the Senate provides that only small arms may be registered by licensed citizens of licensed juridical entities for ownership, possession and concealed carry.
--

Etc, etc, etc. etc. For example, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578227320811172426.html

But, I don't want to get into any debate about gun control. Simply not interested, let the
Philippine people decide what they want to do.

Cheers,
Stephen
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 11:59:52 PM by PalawanAussie »

Offline Lee2

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2013, 11:59:47 PM »
Well just sticking to the Philippines, so we do not get into an international pissing contest on guns and crime, I can basically at any time I want buy an illegal gun in the Philippines. I have been offered illegal guns by friends, taxi drivers and even some women I have met along the way, so in the Philippines gun control of any sort will not work since so many people hand manufacturer guns. Now would that change if the economy got better and everyone was afforded a job so they did not have to resort to making illegal guns, probably somewhat but criminals will always be criminals and those who seek to see if they can make a gun, always will be able to. When I was a teenager curiosity got me thinking and I decided to make a shotgun out of two pipes and a cap, well to make a long story short it worked and then after firing it I took it apart. I also decided to make a 22 out of a car antenna and a cap gun and it too worked and then I smashed it so no one else might get their hands on it. Keeping guns out of criminals or curious peoples hands is impossible unless they make it an immediate death penalty for possession of an illegal gun which we all know is not going to happen and even if they did then there would still be people desperate enough to have and use a gun in a crime.

Now the thing I would like to know is if they made all guns illegal, what might that do to the economy of the Philippines since there are so many gun companies, ranges, stores and manufacturers that all depend on the gun industry? And then what might that do to the peso exchange rate if the economy of the country tanked. Many people do not realize just how interdependent some countries are on the gun industry.

I am glad Australia was able to get away from the gun climate but IMHO it would never work in the Philippines or in the US without bloodshed.
:) Happily married since 1994 & live part of the year in Cebu and the rest in S. Florida.

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2013, 12:09:30 AM »
With the P37.50 burning a hole in my pocket, I'll buy a cold small bottle of Red Horse, can't afford the big bottle (regular Red Horse 500ml bottle costs around 30 pesos on retail according to Yahoo Answers) and drink to that without even debating the issue, because it's already a done deal in the Philippines, but it will be slow in reducing crime of other sorts!
So, enough about this P37.50 rate and about gun control! I don't want to get killed by a gun for P37.50 in my pocket to buy my one small bottle of Rufus's favorite ice cold beverage of choice! :-[ ??? ;)   
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 12:29:06 AM by Art, re(tired) Fil/Am »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2013, 02:37:42 AM »
As everyone can see I moved this topic and changed the subject.  Everyone, please, if you decide to interject a vastly different subject into an ongoing thread, don't.  Find the proper board into which to post your feelings, opinions and thoughts.  These replies were originally posted in the thread about the peso, which has nothing to do with the subject in which they were posted.  So, again, please do not cross-post different topics under one heading.  It makes it impossible for anyone to find answers to their questions.

Thank you!
Louisville, KY USA

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2013, 03:16:09 AM »
First of all I wish to apologize to PA for my remarks.  Please accept my apology and understand that we simply come from differing backgrounds and experiences. 

Beancounter, I understand your feelings, too.  You are entitled to those and can vote any way you like in your country, if they allow you a vote.   ;)

As for PA's statistics on what the Filipino people think about gun control, I offer this:  polls can be twisted to create statistics to fit any oint of view, correct or not.  Three different news stories were quoted with two of them quoting poll results.  But did anyone notice they polled only 1800 Filipinos nationwide?   One poll said 66% and the other stated 75%    So somewhere between 1188 and 1350 people felt the country needed more gun control.  This is similar to the statistics our US administration quote when they talk about what Americans want.   But until they allow everyone a referendum vote, we will likely never know the true feelings the people have.

As Lee said, let's not get into a pissing contest.  I truly like everyone here and see no need for us to bicker over something totally out of our control and beyond the scope of what we should be discussing.     
Louisville, KY USA

Offline BingColin

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2013, 07:00:05 AM »
I must admit that I agree with PA, that's a novelty ;) :), in the UK, Australia and maybe other countries we have a different outlook and experiences than the US. The Philippines has been so strongly influenced by the US that it is not unexpected that they adopt the same attitudes. I believe that ultimately there will be, and should be more gun control, but for the US and the Philippines that will be a long, long road. It is hard to change such heavily ingrained attitudes. Just my opinion, I KNOW others will disagree :D

Offline Palawan Aussie

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2013, 01:27:38 PM »
Indeed gun control is a vexed and difficult topic.

Well done Jack for your gracious and kindly thoughts. We do all come from different nations, and your sensitive and thoughtful work in bringing and holding us all together in this unique international meeting place is admired and appreciated. Haven't you and Rufus and all of the people involved created a truly excellent resource? Thank you Jack and everyone.

We are fine evidence that human good-will is most generally universal.

And one must say, in terms of gun control in the future, and with modern 3d printing, one wonders what on earth will happen worldwide.

For example .. at the following website, there's an Oz police video, apparently made as a public service, noting that plans for the "Liberator" 3D handgun have been downloaded more than 100,000 times. They say they have printed two of the guns, at a cost of $35 each and on a simple base-level $1,700 3D printer. Their video shows one of the guns being 3D printed, then, disintegrating when fired ..

'Catastrophic failure' of 3D-printed gun in Oz Police test'
   
By Simon Sharwood, APAC Editor, 24th May 2013 05:32 GMT
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/24/liberator_3d_printed_gun_catastrophic_failure/

The New South Wales Police Force, guardians of Australia's most-populous State, have gotten themselves into a panic over the Liberator, the 3D-printable pistol.

The Force's Commissioner Andrew Schipione today appeared at a press conference to denounce the Liberator and urge residents of the State not to download plans for the gun.

Schipione offered this advice after the Force's ballistics team acquired a 3D printer, downloaded plans for the Liberator and assembled a pair of the pistols.

One, when fired into a resin block said to simulate human flesh, is said to have penetrated to a depth of 17 fatal-injury-inducing centimetres.

The other experienced “catastrophic failure” ... Here's the Force's video, complete with shots of the Liberator firing, and falling apart ...
--

Cheers,
Stephen


« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 04:03:49 PM by PalawanAussie »

Offline lost_in_samoa

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2013, 06:33:07 PM »
Ya Know..... I read through all of this and was ready to come out of the corner fighting.

Then I realized that this has to be a joke..

Fixed PHP exchange rate?   

I have a few piso's that I would be delighted to invest in the currency arbitrage opportunity that a fixed PHP rate would create.

Free Medical / Roads / Condoms

“Socialists are happy until they run out of other people's money.”

― Margaret Thatcher


Ban weapons.

Really?  Sure why not.  And let's  all sit down and sing Kumbayah.  I'm telling ya.  Finally peace on earth is here folks. 

Hey wait a second ..... we can solve obesity related deaths by banning eating utensils.

We can improve all of our kids grades by banning pencils and pens.

And what about transportation related fatalities........??????  Let's ban movement!


EUREKA!  By Golly we have just discovered how to put Pandora back into the Box ..... Right here in LINP3.   Saints be praised.



The GK's and SP's are laying it on thick as of late.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 07:32:23 PM by lost_in_samoa »

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2013, 10:00:06 PM »
Ya Know..... I read through all of this and was ready to come out of the corner fighting.

Then I realized that this has to be a joke..

Fixed PHP exchange rate?   

I have a few piso's that I would be delighted to invest in the currency arbitrage opportunity that a fixed PHP rate would create.

Free Medical / Roads / Condoms

“Socialists are happy until they run out of other people's money.”

― Margaret Thatcher

Ban weapons.

Really?  Sure why not.  And let's  all sit down and sing Kumbayah.  I'm telling ya.  Finally peace on earth is here folks. 

Hey wait a second ..... we can solve obesity related deaths by banning eating utensils.

We can improve all of our kids grades by banning pencils and pens.

And what about transportation related fatalities........ ??? ???  Let's ban movement!

EUREKA!  By Golly we have just discovered how to put Pandora back into the Box ..... Right here in LINP3.   Saints be praised.

The GK's and SP's are laying it on thick as of late.

LIS, have I told you lately how much I love you?   ;D :D :) :)
Louisville, KY USA

Offline Palawan Aussie

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2013, 11:42:46 PM »
Quote
Let's all sit down and sing Kumbayah ..  Saints be praised.

LIS, have I told you lately how much I love you?   ;D :D :) :)


You two are a worry  ;D :D :) :)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 01:34:05 AM by PalawanAussie »

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Guns in the Philippines
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 03:34:25 AM »
Don't worry!  Be Happy!!   :D :D :D :D :D :) :) :) 8) 8)

Cheers mate!!  :)
Louisville, KY USA

 


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