Author Topic: Fixer Up  (Read 2892 times)

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2018, 01:08:07 AM »
If you added insulation how did you do it and with what ?   

In the US in the area I am from it is typical that we add insulation on top of the top floor ceiling.  Can I instead just attache to the underside of the roof,   Styrofoam maybe ?  The attic in this house is large enough to be useful,  and would be nicer to be included in the insulated area for cooling.

How did others do insolation ?

Thanks for any ideas.


A foil laminate insulation is commonly used in our area. It's placed under the roofing steel. I believe there are at least 2, maybe 3 grades of thickness. I've also seen metal roofing panels with the insulation attached by the manufacturer. When we put a new roof on the open area covering our rooftop we added insulation under the roofing panels. We did the same with the new roof on our bahay kubo recently. It makes a difference in keeping much of the heat from the roof from passing down. If done over an attic it's important to make sure there are eve vents to reduce heat buildup. A few friends have also added power vents with thermostats. When it reaches a certain level the vent fan kicks on removing the excess heat.

This pic shows the insulation installed underneath the steel roofing panels on our rooftop terrace. The same process was used on the bahay kubo and can be utilized on an enclosed roof over an attic.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 01:26:37 AM by Gray Wolf »
Louisville, KY USA

Offline FastWalk

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2018, 01:34:06 AM »
A foil laminate insulation is commonly used in our area.




Thanks,  I am glad I asked,   what you show makes sense.
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Offline JoeLP

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2018, 09:02:35 AM »
I guess I am odd in that I have a lot of power tools.

I inherited a complete 70's construction/furniture shop from my family.  After using them, I've developed a taste for older tools. 

Stuff from the era when gears were forged from steel.  Remember back when items were designed to last?  American made meant something?

I've had a few of the motors re-wrapped for 220.  But it never worked out well.  Tools burnt up.  Didn't run right.

I've smoked so many step-down transformers that I finally had to install a unit large enough to support my entire site.

But what I do is not for everyone.  Good Luck.
My dad still has some of his Milwaukee and Craftsman made tools from the 60's and 70's when his building company was going very strong.  Heck, he gave one of this Craftsman table saws(old school with the engine that sat outside the saw box with a belt running into the saw box) to my sister's husband.  This was one of the 2 he bought back in the mid 60's.  Damn thing still runs as nice as I ever remember seeing it run.  We say the joke is on him because he "traded" it in for a new DeWalt heavy duty table saw with hydraulics and all that fancy "jazz" with everything inside a solid box.  Thing gives him more trouble than anything he owns.  It works.  but when it comes to doing different things with it like he could with the Craftsman, issues come up.  He still has that DeWalt...but moved it to the side of his workshop and setup the 2nd Craftsman table saw he got with that one he gave my brother--in-law and uses that still.
The Milwaukee powerdrill(big heavy monstor of a drill) will still outwork almost every drill my dad ever bought.  He got that in the late 60's. 
I know what you speak of.  It's not just power tools either.  If I had a dollar for every time my dad used a wrench as a hammer or pliers as prybars I could have retired real young.  But most of those things, 50 years later are still doing their jobs.  Try doing that with most currently sold tools and problems would come.  All tools, American made, from that era meant something. 
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Offline JoeLP

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2018, 09:20:55 AM »
Thanks,  I am glad I asked,   what you show makes sense.
That looks more practical for buildings in the Philippines.  My first construction job outside working for my father was building log homes.  My best friend's dad owned the company and at one time he tasked his son and I with building the 30' x 30' red pine home for what was his family's nanny.  Anyway, we, along with a couple other workers from Windy Hill Log Homes, did the recon, and when we did the roofing system, used styrofoam "blocks" for the first time ever in my life.  My dad usually did what you discussed on modern style builds, and would use blown or figerglass in the houses that we remodeled from previous eras where the upstairs levels are build to the roof.  But using styrofoam was something that was cool with me.  The "ceiling board" with the styrofoam blocks on top of that sitting between the trusses what left about 2" of space above the styrofoam where an aluminum "tray" was put to allow for airflow between the ridge vent and the vents at the eaves. 
My dad was there to watch us build it and started to add those "trays" to his remodel jobs oh older homes and would add them above the insulation he either blew in or the fiberglass rolls he'd roll in.
That is probably all overkill in the phils as you are really only trying to retain cooler air in the house and keep the hot out 99% of the time and are not going through all 4 seasons in all their glory like those of us who lived in the northern US and Canada areas. 
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Offline Leinster Lad

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2018, 01:35:19 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.   We are proceeding with only 220.

For safety reasons, you should opt for a fully earthed MEN system. ( Main Earth Neutral ) with separate RCD protected lighting and power circuits.
I would also only ever use the 3 pin (earthed)  type wall sockets, that way the active conductor will always be in the correct position relative to the plug, which should avoid those "tingles" when touching metal appliances.

The 220V power from the street comes into the house via 2 wires. An active and a neutral.
If you look carefully at those cables, one will be insulated ( the active) and the other is normally bare ( neutral)
The neutral is also normally "earthed" at either the meter or up on the pole.

It is a REALLY good idea to follow this wiring convention in your house.

With the "MEN" system, the house earth ( sockets and metal roof frames etc ) are connected to the Neutral at the fuse/breaker box by a single connection.
So all the earth wires from all over the house arrive at the breaker box and are terminated in one of the multi-terminal brass bars.
All of the neutral wires from all of the sockets etc also terminate in one of those brass multi-terminal bars.
Those two terminal bars are connected together with ONE piece of wire. Normally 6mm or 10mm cross sectional area.

All active cables are connected to their relevantly rated breakers or fuses.

REMEMBER, the fuse or breaker is there to protect THE CABLE, nothing else.

Cable sizes are rated to carry a defined maximum current.
So normally, a 2.5mm cable feeding a POWER circuit will be protected with a 20 amp breaker.
If the breaker keeps tripping, you need to run a new circuit !

A LIGHTING circuit will normally be run in 1.5mm cable and be protected with a 10 amp breaker.  ( 10 amps at 220 volts = 2200watts of lighting !!, which = HEAPS )

You can even get breakers now that have built in RCD ( earth leakage protection )
Running multiple circuits ( and therefore multiple breakers ) has the advantage of redundancy.
If one of your lighting circuits gets shorted by a mouse chewing the cable, you only lose that one lot of lights, not ALL your lights !

Some appliances have "normal" amounts of earth leakage that will cause nuisance trips of RCD's.
Typically these are electric ovens / hot plates.
These can be run on a separate NON-RCD circuit if required.
That way, if it does trip while you are away, at least the fridge will still be on.

I've attached a couple of circuit diagrams which should help.

Offline David690

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2018, 07:20:59 PM »
For safety reasons, you should opt for a fully earthed MEN system. ( Main Earth Neutral ) with separate RCD protected lighting and power circuits.
I would also only ever use the 3 pin (earthed)  type wall sockets, that way the active conductor will always be in the correct position relative to the plug, which should avoid those "tingles" when touching metal appliances.

The 220V power from the street comes into the house via 2 wires. An active and a neutral.
If you look carefully at those cables, one will be insulated ( the active) and the other is normally bare ( neutral)
The neutral is also normally "earthed" at either the meter or up on the pole.

It is a REALLY good idea to follow this wiring convention in your house.

With the "MEN" system, the house earth ( sockets and metal roof frames etc ) are connected to the Neutral at the fuse/breaker box by a single connection.
So all the earth wires from all over the house arrive at the breaker box and are terminated in one of the multi-terminal brass bars.
All of the neutral wires from all of the sockets etc also terminate in one of those brass multi-terminal bars.
Those two terminal bars are connected together with ONE piece of wire. Normally 6mm or 10mm cross sectional area.

All active cables are connected to their relevantly rated breakers or fuses.

REMEMBER, the fuse or breaker is there to protect THE CABLE, nothing else.

Cable sizes are rated to carry a defined maximum current.
So normally, a 2.5mm cable feeding a POWER circuit will be protected with a 20 amp breaker.
If the breaker keeps tripping, you need to run a new circuit !

A LIGHTING circuit will normally be run in 1.5mm cable and be protected with a 10 amp breaker.  ( 10 amps at 220 volts = 2200watts of lighting !!, which = HEAPS )

You can even get breakers now that have built in RCD ( earth leakage protection )
Running multiple circuits ( and therefore multiple breakers ) has the advantage of redundancy.
If one of your lighting circuits gets shorted by a mouse chewing the cable, you only lose that one lot of lights, not ALL your lights !

Some appliances have "normal" amounts of earth leakage that will cause nuisance trips of RCD's.
Typically these are electric ovens / hot plates.
These can be run on a separate NON-RCD circuit if required.
That way, if it does trip while you are away, at least the fridge will still be on.

I've attached a couple of circuit diagrams which should help.

That is spot on Leinster Lad.  I would also point out that if you opt for RCD's, (which you should) rather than ELCB's, it is imperative that for each bank of circuits running from an RCD, you must ensure that the neutrals for those circuits run back to the Neutral bar associated with that RCD, ie they are segragated.  They operate by detecting the difference in current between the live and the neutral and trip off if the difference exceeds the tripping value of the RCD, typically 30mA for lighting wall sockets etc, and 100mA for washing machine, AC's etc.
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Offline FastWalk

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2018, 09:41:47 PM »

I've attached a couple of circuit diagrams which should help.

Thanks for the great details.
“Old men do not grow wise. They grow careful.”
“Keep on rocking in the free world”

Offline FastWalk

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Re: Fixer Up
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2018, 09:46:14 PM »
That is spot on Leinster Lad.  I would also point out that if you opt for RCD's, (which you should) rather than ELCB's, it is imperative that for each bank of circuits running from an RCD, you must ensure that the neutrals for those circuits run back to the Neutral bar associated with that RCD, ie they are segragated.  They operate by detecting the difference in current between the live and the neutral and trip off if the difference exceeds the tripping value of the RCD, typically 30mA for lighting wall sockets etc, and 100mA for washing machine, AC's etc.

Thanks for the additional point.   I can say that one thing I have found different in the phills is that I need to review and know what I am doing with construction things.  From US I could somewhat depend on the inspection cycle to ensure it was ok.
“Old men do not grow wise. They grow careful.”
“Keep on rocking in the free world”

 


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