Author Topic: Education in the Philippines (revisited)  (Read 646 times)

Offline bigrod

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2018, 06:39:42 PM »
Chuck,

I agree that the subject of dual nationality would have to be "referred upwards" for a definitive decision, but bearing in mind that most, if not all, of these regulations promulgated on government websites, are directed at Filipinos and do not specifically take into account dual citizens.

Saying that, however, it is something to be thought about, if a dual citizen wanted to join the Philippines' military. Would she/he want to give up an US/UK/whatever dual citizenship? It could be very hard to re-aquire their former citizenship after 20 or 25 years.

Peter

Agree.  Would I give mine up at 70 years old, not likely.  Now a child who has lived their whole life til maturity in the Philippines might have a different view. Especially if they can possibly take over the family business, guaranteed a great lifestyle, etc.  All situations are different and decisions would be bases upon what options are available probably 15 years down the road.

Chuck

Life is  to short not to live it right the first time

Offline FastWalk

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2018, 11:03:38 PM »
Hestercrefter,  my viewpoint is that money is not the goal in life.  Although as a kid I was certainly tought that it was.  As a kid was lower middle class or just few steps obove poor.  I heard endlessly how colledge ppl are just educated idiots and one needs to get a job as soon as possible.

After manageing a few retail stores I joined the Navy and an E1..  The US Navy tought me how to go to university and even paid for it.  When a little older I discovered that a software engineer can earn alot more money in the free market, and moved to private companies.  Have been involved with many technolog that changed the world.  Same earning ability as Medical Dr and Legal work.  The path to all that money however was  full of struggles, sadness and heartbreak.  Money just is not the right goal (albiet it is important to have some).

I have 529 plans already funded for kids to attend US University when ready.  And will encourage and even insist they do so as much as I am able to.  Until then I am looking forward to haveing them in US based home school while residing in the Phillipines where it is normal to keep the kids close.  While they continue to learn music and dance along with being members of athletic clubs.

The end game for the kids is to be happy and hopefully avoid some of the years and years of heartbreak that I experienced in the US School and family systems.  If later they want to just assume our Phillipine buisnesses and build a house on one of our areas in the phillipines after university I will be delighted.  When grandkids arrive,  hopefully I can still be able to help take care of them. If they want to take on a journey in the US either blue or white collar,  I will support it however I can.  I would encourage them to be in US Military if they like,  but would try to get them to start as 0-1 instead of E-1.

I think opinions vary,  this is how I see it.
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Offline Hestecrefter

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 02:54:49 AM »
Hestercrefter,  my viewpoint is that money is not the goal in life.  Although as a kid I was certainly tought that it was. 

I have 529 plans already funded for kids to attend US University when ready.  And will encourage and even insist they do so as much as I am able to.  Until then I am looking forward to haveing them in US based home school while residing in the Phillipines where it is normal to keep the kids close.  While they continue to learn music and dance along with being members of athletic clubs.

The end game for the kids is to be happy and hopefully avoid some of the years and years of heartbreak that I experienced in the US School and family systems.  If later they want to just assume our Phillipine buisnesses and build a house on one of our areas in the phillipines after university I will be delighted.  When grandkids arrive,  hopefully I can still be able to help take care of them. If they want to take on a journey in the US either blue or white collar,  I will support it however I can.  I would encourage them to be in US Military if they like,  but would try to get them to start as 0-1 instead of E-1.

I think opinions vary,  this is how I see it.

Fastwalk, my initial post was not meant to suggest that money should be the goal in life.  However, I think for most, it is a goal to have sufficient money to live with some comfort.  What different folks will see as amounting to "some comfort" will, of course, vary widely. 

Elsewhere on this board you have commented:


Another point is that the average (or is it mean..) income in the Philippines is about 25k peso,  and the same in the US is about 4-6k dollars per month.  With the exchange rates it works out to the US person having on average about 10 times more.  Other numbers can be found,  but the general theory is still sound.  In either place there are ppl that are above or below the averages.

That comment squares with what I see.  So that is why I asked about expats raising kids in the Phils.  Are they content that their kids' income earning capacity will be so circumscribed?  Have they figured out another way?  I am guessing that most expats have lived a good part of their lives with incomes in the US range you cite.  I would think many would want their kids to have the same.  If the kids are born and raised in the Phils, how is that accomplished?  BudM has put forward US military as one avenue.  I think that is probably a good one.  I note that you have mentioned the same. 

I'll be crass and state my position that, while money should not be the goal in life, it should be a goal.  I have found that those who like to say that money isn't important generally fall into one of two camps: (i) those who have loads of it; or (ii) those who have not been successful in making money and like to say it's not important, so they do not have to admit to failure in that regard. 

In another thread you made the point:

In the US with all of our activities between us we are easily into the 5% or better group for money.  There is (almost) no way at this time in my life that I can or even want to work hard enough to get to the 1% group.  I believe 1% group is where it is possible to have regular domestic help.  We both have had a variety of religious ideas and training and either of us are very capable to be the sole provider for our entire family.  In the Philippines we move up in the food chain due to the exchange rate and other things.  Neither of us like doing domestic work at all.



 We keep the kids close, both of us like the idea to have a more direct control over the kids growth.  We will likely move back to the US for at least a few years when kids will finish university.  Then depending (on everything) they can have option to carry on whatever we do on the Philippines or build in the US.

A bit of research tells me that, as a member of the top 5% club, your household income is in the range of $215,000/yr., with a net worth in the range of $2 million.  You say that you have the financial clout to be able to return to the US and have your kids attend university there.  Not a cheap undertaking by any yardstick.  You own lands and businesses in the Phils your kids can take over.  Clearly, you do not have to face the prospect that your progeny will never rise above the lot of the average Filipino. 

FastWalk, you mention that your road to riches was full of sadness, struggles and heartbreak.  I find that statement a tad curious, but I'll not ask you to elaborate.  I suspect there are details you'd prefer not to relate.  I say I find the statement curious because it is so foreign to my own experience.  I completed grade 13 in Toronto, then spent 9 years at 3 universities (some on both sides of the border) earning advanced degrees.  The 9 years were not consecutive.  I worked as an accountant to be able to save up law school tuition.  An educated idiot some here will say.  But, as an educated idiot I was able to earn a very good income. Perhaps more importantly, I was to a large extent able to "pack my own chute". 

I never really had a boss.  I was sometimes the boss and, when I was not, I was still a trusted professional, left to do my work as I wanted, when I wanted.  I noticed that the higher up one got in the pecking order, the less one had to do to earn an ever larger pay check.  I always had my own large, private office and support staff assigned to me.  I always felt a bit guilty when it came to support staff.  They were expected to be on the job, at their desks, from 9 to 5, with controlled breaks.  They had very little autonomy.  They were paid a fraction of what I was paid, but, in truth, they worked harder.  A lot harder.  It paid to be a big pecker, rather than a little pecker.

So, FastWalk, while it seems that you endured some difficulty in accomplishing what you have - including a well above average financial status - it also seems that you have achieved financial freedom for yourself and your family, including the ability to secure your children’s future in a way that will see them independent.  My sense is that, even if they assume your businesses, they will have to work.  I see that as all for the good. 

We are not in the fortunate position of having a business for our son to assume.  As I mentioned, I suppose I could arrange my affairs so that not only will my wife be financially secure after my passing (which is a priority), but my son could get by reasonably well with what I could leave him.  But I do not want that for him.  He seems to be a capable young lad so far and I would rather see him earn his own way.  Sure, later in life he can inherit, but I would hope that by the time that day comes, any inheritance will just be a bit extra added to what he has made for himself.  I think he will feel better about himself as a result.  But maybe that’s looking through an old school lens.  Maybe today, it’s a point of pride for one to say that they have set things up so their kids will never have to do a lick of work. 

What I am reading here so far bears out my thinking that expats cannot raise their kids in the Phils, have them do all of their schooling there, and expect them to enjoy the standard of living of their parents, without having some kind of plan in place to allow them to do better than they would if simply left to their own devices competing in the Phils job market. 

What no one has yet addressed is whether kids, who complete university in the Phils, have much opportunity to migrate to the US (or wherever else they have citizenship through an expat parent) and successfully compete with local grads in that job market. 

In our case, my wife and I have decided that our son’s best prospects lie in him completing his education here in Canada (perhaps some university in the U.S.).  Once he is out of high school, there’s a fair likelihood that he’ll leave home for university as I did.  His mum and I will likely then again review the idea of us returning to live in the Phils.  At this point, my guess is that we'll end up spending a couple of months each winter there, but not pull the plug here completely.



Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 06:50:39 AM »
In our neighborhood we have seen and heard every facet of life of families mostly Filipinos and some married to foreigners. The parent's occupations ranges vastly accross the board from laywers, doctors, nurses, military, police, teachers, OFWs,  self employed tradesmens, skilled/unskilled laborers, business owners of all sorts, show biz, politicians and most of their efforts always revolves around their children's upbringing, safety and education. Their children are what makes their world go around.
For most of us retirees without any children, except for niecies and nephews that come to visit occassionally are enjoyable to be with occasionally. ;D ???
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 07:05:05 AM by Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
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Offline fred

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 11:47:01 PM »
Chuck,

I agree that the subject of dual nationality would have to be "referred upwards" for a definitive decision, but bearing in mind that most, if not all, of these regulations promulgated on government websites, are directed at Filipinos and do not specifically take into account dual citizens.

Saying that, however, it is something to be thought about, if a dual citizen wanted to join the Philippines' military. Would she/he want to give up an US/UK/whatever dual citizenship? It could be very hard to re-aquire their former citizenship after 20 or 25 years.

Peter

If the requirement to join the military is to be a natural born Filipino,then the only important thing is if the applicants Mother OR Father was a natural Filipino!
About the only thing a dual citizen cannot do is run for election to public office.

Offline David690

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2018, 02:05:53 PM »

What I am reading here so far bears out my thinking that expats cannot raise their kids in the Phils, have them do all of their schooling there, and expect them to enjoy the standard of living of their parents, without having some kind of plan in place to allow them to do better than they would if simply left to their own devices competing in the Phils job market. 

What no one has yet addressed is whether kids, who complete university in the Phils, have much opportunity to migrate to the US (or wherever else they have citizenship through an expat parent) and successfully compete with local grads in that job market. 


Hi Hestecrefter

First off let me qualify my comment and admit that I have zero first hand experience of the education system here in Philippines, nor the job market in the U.S.  What I can say with 100% certainty based on my own personal experience, is that engineers here are educated to a good level.  Before I retired earlier this year, I was Engineering Manager for Govt of Dubai Media Office.  I had several Philipino engineers that I had recruited directly from here.  Every one of them was well trained, hard working, extremely honest and easy to work with.  I lost a couple of them to other international companies, the last one to CNN, where he is Engineer in Charge of his news unit and travels the world with them.  So yes I do think it's possible for university graduates from the Philippines to find a good well paid job outside of here.  Maybe I've just been extremely lucky, I have no way of judging that.
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Offline FastWalk

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2018, 11:00:26 PM »
I had several Philipino engineers that I had recruited directly from here.  Every one of them was well trained, hard working, extremely honest and easy to work with.  I lost a couple of them to other

Completely agree with you that engineers from Philippines can and do end up with globally competitive earning.  Years ago I had the pleasure to hire a young Filipino man that turned out to be a super star and at that time could not afford to keep him,  in the US dot com boom.  He ended up at Microsoft where he did very very well.  So I also am 100% sure it can be done.  How it works is the person takes a lower salary then the US competitors but it is still a good one.  Then later works there way up,  just like anyone has to do.

Several of the nurse and Dr. that I have seen in the last years are educated and imported from Philippines,  they are for sure competitive in earning.

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Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2018, 11:50:21 PM »
We have 6 nieces and nephews whose education was paid for wholly or in part by Glo and me who all work as OFW's. 4 Electronics Engineers, 1 RN work in Dubai. The other nephew, with a Masters in Computer Technology, teaches at Arba Minch University in Ethiopia. They all make good money. In fact they make enough to invest in property, homes and businesses back home in the PH. I doubt whether the same degree of opportunity for a good paying job is as easily attained in country. This is why I love my family. They work hard for a living, take care of family and will appreciate even more what they have in a few years.
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Offline Hestecrefter

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2018, 12:33:07 AM »
So, the impression I am getting from responses provided is that kids educated in the Phils can readily go just about anywhere in the world, their credentials are accepted as equal (and perhaps superior) to the local grads, and they can earn on a par with kids educated in the U.S. and other western countries.  I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc. 

The responses also appear to confirm my belief that grads from the PI have a difficult time earning in the range of $5,000 a month or better in the Phils, so they leave.  That remains one reason why I would rather have our son educated in Canada.  Were we to live in the Phils, for him to eventually enjoy the kind of earnings his old man enjoyed all his life, he would have to leave what would be his home country.  That's not a concept that endears itself to me.  When I was completing school in Canada, I did not have to concern myself with the somewhat stark reality of knowing I would have to leave home and perhaps never return except to visit or retire. 

It's reassuring to learn that, despite some "one-offs", the quality of education in the Phils is not inferior to that of western countries. Upthread, I referred to a kid who went through elementary school and who graduated when plainly he had not obtained a thorough elementary education.  That was nigh on 20 years ago and it's probably the case that such a thing could not occur anywhere in the Phils today, and that more rigorous standards are universally applied. 

Offline BudM

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2018, 07:47:48 AM »
So, the impression I am getting from responses provided is that kids educated in the Phils can readily go just about anywhere in the world, their credentials are accepted as equal (and perhaps superior) to the local grads, and they can earn on a par with kids educated in the U.S. and other western countries.  I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc. 

                < ------- removed some ------->

I don't know about Dubai which depends on what ranking you look at as UAE is either richer than the US or vice versa.  On the other hand, over the years all the lists I have seen, Qatar (UAE neighbor) is consistently on lists as a lot richer than the US.  And I have no less than ten relatives (a brother of my wife, a brother-in-law of hers and the rest 1st cousins) and maybe some I haven't even met yet, who work in Doha, Qatar as OFW.  I never inquired as to their incomes and I don't think they necessarily get the top rate that nationals would of which the nationals population is a way lower percentage than working expats.  Believe me though, the income they do get, puts them in the same light with some family, friends, and others, just like we from western civilizations are and that being is perceived as having more money than we or anyone knows how to or able to spend.
Whatever floats your boat.

Offline Lee2

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2018, 09:56:03 AM »
Let me start off writing, that IMO you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear, at least not without continual under thumb guidance, at least that is what I have found in some of our family and friends, so the crab mentality will sometimes, maybe even often, pull those you send to college down if they come from poor and uneducated families, whereas, those that come from educated families will more likely succeed, there will always be exceptions for those who are strong enough to not allow anyone to pull them down. We sent 6 to college and only one graduated and even he could not pass the exam to become licensed, even after us paying for his summer school every year and a pretest course, of course we were not there to make sure he actually went to all those classes, my guess is we spent that money for those classes and he could not have possibly attended them all and still failed but maybe he is just plain thick or another possibility is that he found a way to get receipts for those classes without taking them.

As for salaries, those who get recruited from the Philippines make peanuts when compared to those who have citizenship from first world countries and can go on their own, again, from what I have personally seen, YMMV.

So in conclusion, I do not believe it is as much the education in the Philippines that is bad as the crab mentality of some friends and family, that pull others down. As an example, we had one exceptionally smart young niece that started teaching me Bisaya at the family home when she was around 11, she was great, she made learning so easy for me, we later found out that her family and friends made fun of her because I foolishly said in front of others that she had a special talent to be a teacher and that we would send her to college, she never finished high school because the others continually made fun of her, she would have been a great teacher and could have made a better life for her and her family.


« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 10:02:43 AM by Lee2 »
:) Happily married since 1994 & live part of the year in Cebu and the rest in S. Florida.

Offline jjcabgou

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2018, 10:46:48 AM »
So, the impression I am getting from responses provided is that kids educated in the Phils can readily go just about anywhere in the world, their credentials are accepted as equal (and perhaps superior) to the local grads, and they can earn on a par with kids educated in the U.S. and other western countries.  I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc. 

The responses also appear to confirm my belief that grads from the PI have a difficult time earning in the range of $5,000 a month or better in the Phils, so they leave.  That remains one reason why I would rather have our son educated in Canada.  Were we to live in the Phils, for him to eventually enjoy the kind of earnings his old man enjoyed all his life, he would have to leave what would be his home country.  That's not a concept that endears itself to me.  When I was completing school in Canada, I did not have to concern myself with the somewhat stark reality of knowing I would have to leave home and perhaps never return except to visit or retire. 

It's reassuring to learn that, despite some "one-offs", the quality of education in the Phils is not inferior to that of western countries. Upthread, I referred to a kid who went through elementary school and who graduated when plainly he had not obtained a thorough elementary education.  That was nigh on 20 years ago and it's probably the case that such a thing could not occur anywhere in the Phils today, and that more rigorous standards are universally applied.
In general the quality of education here IS ABSOLUTELY inferior to most, if not all, 'western' countries.   That does not mean that there are not any good schools, nor does it mean that "some" kids do get a quality education.   I had many Filipinos working for me during my time in the AF and they were all well spoken, intelligent and hard working, when I was going thru cancer treatment, most of my nurses were filipina (3 different hospitals, in three different states), and they were all awesome.   But the vast majority of kids in the Philippines are not getting a quality education, and that is putting it mildly, and that includes many of the private schools.    I have had high school grads ask me "where is Indonesia", "can we land on the sun", or "we have landed on the moon?", these are only a handful of questions I have been asked by high school grads.   In addition, I do have first hand knowledge of provincial public schools and non provincial private schools, and I can tell you, unequivocally, the education system is severely lacking.    Pointing out exceptions does not mean the education system here is on par with other countries.   This is not just an opinion, these are documented facts.

Offline BudM

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2018, 03:26:54 PM »
What it boils down to is, wherever you go, there are a bunch of kids who do not know squat about history, math, science or you name it.  The Philippines has their share of kids of who don't care about learning.  The US has their share of kids who don't care about learning.  Any other country has their share also.  This BS about so and so being inferior education to another is just that.  A bunch of BS.  So, the best thing is, whoever wants to send their kids to that country's school or the other country's schools, it is the parents choice.  All I have to say is, my feelings on where my kid is not going has mainly to do with the mentality of a great many of the teachers of whom in my opinion try to influence the kids to their way of thinking.  And I am not going to have certain kind of individuals dominating my kid's list of teachers.  Why?  Because I don't have any use for that type.  So, in conclusion, my kid is going to school here.
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Offline jjcabgou

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2018, 06:37:27 PM »
What it boils down to is, wherever you go, there are a bunch of kids who do not know squat about history, math, science or you name it.  The Philippines has their share of kids of who don't care about learning.  The US has their share of kids who don't care about learning.  Any other country has their share also.  This BS about so and so being inferior education to another is just that.  A bunch of BS.  So, the best thing is, whoever wants to send their kids to that country's school or the other country's schools, it is the parents choice.  All I have to say is, my feelings on where my kid is not going has mainly to do with the mentality of a great many of the teachers of whom in my opinion try to influence the kids to their way of thinking.  And I am not going to have certain kind of individuals dominating my kid's list of teachers.  Why?  Because I don't have any use for that type.  So, in conclusion, my kid is going to school here.
One MAJOR factor we have all overlooked and one that is probably more important than the education system, is Parenting!

Offline BudM

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Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2018, 09:09:13 PM »
One MAJOR factor we have all overlooked and one that is probably more important than the education system, is Parenting!

I don't think anyone is overlooking that.  But, in some places, a negative system influences has a greater negative effect then others and with the same parenting.  With careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion and weighed as to where the most negativeness stews and could have the most negative effect, all in my opinion, and my kid is not going there.
Whatever floats your boat.

 


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