Living In The Philippines Forum

It’s Your Money => Building in the Philippines => Topic started by: SIMI on August 05, 2014, 08:09:14 AM

Title: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: SIMI on August 05, 2014, 08:09:14 AM
I am planning on purchasing a piece of property to build a retirement home in the San Fernando area of Cebu.

I appears that the two most important elements that need to be considered before purchasing a property, is something we in the states take for granted.  Water & Electric.

i guess my first question is how can I be sure that there is suitable subsurface groundwater ideally fed by an aquifer?  Has anyone used a Well Drilling Company with an in-house Geologist?

Does anyone on this site have any experience or stories about installing a well in the San Fernando area of Cebu? 

Any and all comments and experiences are welcome.

Simi
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: JoeLP on August 06, 2014, 01:35:38 AM
Good luck on the water. Sorta a crapshoot. 
When I lived in Bataan, the house was built by a couple who lived almost their whole lives since early 20s in the usa.  They retired to Bataan, and built a very American home.  Per their son, they had to look for months to find someone who could go down deep for a well. 
Forward to now when I live in Catarman, Northern Samar.  Same issue.  Our well is 15-20 feet deep.  I asked Tina why not deeper.  She just shrugged and said something to the effect of "it's what everyone does".  LOL  Not drainage field.  Just a sump pump tank that spill raw sewage into the ground, and not 3 feet further down is probably the start of the water table that is what the well is dug to.  And they wonder why they can't drink the water.
Still, when I asked her where we can find a company that will go deeper when we build our house she just looked at me as if I was asking for something crazy.  Then she finally looked into the matter.  The city water and sanitation head said they only can be found in Manila. 
Granted, other heads of departments have been wrong on other things, so I take that with a grain of salt.  But from my experience, you might be hard pressed to find a company with adequate tools to dig yuo a deep well.  In Michigan we'd go down at leat 40' most of the times and sometimes 60+.  Not here.  Best of luck at it though.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: Gray Wolf on August 06, 2014, 04:51:29 AM
We drilled a well on our property outside north-eastern Metro Manila and were fortunate to have hit a natural aquifer relatively close to the surface.  But I have no experience or suggestions for San Fernando, Cebu.  Unfortunately you'll find that different provinces operate under sometimes very different rules and with varying guidelines and enforcement.  I do wish you luck though, and hope someone here can suggest an office to check with.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: FMSINC on August 06, 2014, 08:26:11 AM
Gray wolf you have an illegal well with out a permit some day some one will show up and have you fik kit in they have already started doing this in our area
 
Below is the gov agency that controls the water rights here

Tom/ Roxas City

http://nwrb.denr.gov.ph/index.php/nwrb-regulations/resources-and-regulation.html (http://nwrb.denr.gov.ph/index.php/nwrb-regulations/resources-and-regulation.html)

As a resource regulator, the NWRB implements the provisions of Presidential Decree No. 1067, otherwise known as the Water Code of the Philippines. Premised on the underlying principle that “all waters belong to the State”, and “the State may allow the use or development of waters by administrative concession”, the NWRB regulates and control, on behalf of the Government, the utilization, exploitation, development, conservation and protection of all water resources.

More specifically, the NWRB’s functions as a resource regulator include the following:

Issue/suspend/revoke/approve transfer of water permits for the appropriation and use of waters;
Declare waters not previously appropriated exempt from appropriation;
Promulgate rules and declare the existence of control areas for the coordinated development, protection, and utilization of ground and surface waters;

Establish minimum stream flows for rivers and streams and minimum water levels for lakes as may be necessary for the protection of the environment, control of pollution, navigation, prevention of salt damage, and general public use;

Issue permits for development of streams, lakes or springs for recreational purposes;
Issue permits for drilling of wells;
Issue rules and regulations for reservoir operations;
Approve transfer of water from one river basin to another;
Coordinate data collection, research and manpower development;
Impose penalties for administrative violations;

Impose and collect reasonable fees or charges for water resource development;
Approve rules and regulations prescribed by other government agencies pertaining to the utilization, exploitation, development, control, conservation or protection of water resources;
Adjudicate all disputes relating to appropriation, utilization, exploitation, development, control, conservation and protection of waters

The NWRB is also mandated, under Republic Act No. 9275, otherwise known as the “Clean Water Act” to designate water quality management areas, in coordination with Department of Environment and Natural Resources.

In the exercise of its resource regulatory functions, the NWRB is assisted by deputized agents all-over the country, which include:

District Engineering Offices of the Department of Public Works and Highways;
Provincial Irrigation Engineering Offices of the National Irrigation Administration;
Regional Managers of the National Power Corporation; and
General Managers of Water Districts.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: fred on August 06, 2014, 09:00:15 AM
Its all very well having laws a permit requirement but if the municipality cannot provide continuous fresh water then its time to get independent.
We will start building our own percussion drill rig probably next month.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: FMSINC on August 06, 2014, 09:06:51 AM
Good luck with that Fred hope it works out for you just be prepared for the authorities to come in and close it down for you at any time as you are technically stealing water that should be purchased from the franchised water distributer in your area

They usually follow the well drillers around to find the illegal wells just remember its more fun in the Phillip[pines

Tom
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 06, 2014, 11:36:58 AM
"Its all very well having laws a permit requirement but if the municipality cannot provide continuous fresh water then its time to get independent."

I would personally explore the rainfall harvest option.
Get a nice big holding tank, good gutters on your roof ( if building, design the roof for max rainwater collection ) pressure pump, filters / UV steriliser .... all set !

And with the amount of rain that the Philippines gets, you "should" never run out !
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: Gray Wolf on August 07, 2014, 05:34:47 AM
Gray wolf you have an illegal well with out a permit some day some one will show up and have you fik kit in they have already started doing this in our area


Tom,

If we had drilled an illegal well, what you said would be correct.  But we drilled the well about 10 years ago and obtained all the permits necessary for the project.  As I recall permits,  drilling, piping, pressurized water tank, etc ran us about $800. 

My memory isn't what it used to be so I asked the highest authority I know, my asawa Gloria.  She's never wrong, just ask her.   ;D  :)
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: fred on August 07, 2014, 07:48:30 AM
"Its all very well having laws a permit requirement but if the municipality cannot provide continuous fresh water then its time to get independent."

I would personally explore the rainfall harvest option.
Get a nice big holding tank, good gutters on your roof ( if building, design the roof for max rainwater collection ) pressure pump, filters / UV steriliser .... all set !

And with the amount of rain that the Philippines gets, you "should" never run out !

Unfortunately,not much good for us as we have a very large nipa roof which produces brown water not much good for anything else but watering our garden..
We have storage facilities for 10 Cubic meters which will soon be filled with cheap water from my new deep well and submersible pump!!
Cheers,
Fred.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: fred on August 07, 2014, 08:27:16 AM
Good luck with that Fred hope it works out for you just be prepared for the authorities to come in and close it down for you at any time as you are technically stealing water that should be purchased from the franchised water distributer in your area

They usually follow the well drillers around to find the illegal wells just remember its more fun in the Phillip[pines

Tom

where we live My bro in law gave permission for one of our neighbours to hold their illegal cock fights on a piece of family his land..This occurred 3 times a year since.
Last elections our neighbour became mayor.. Of course these meeting are no longer illegal as they now sign their own permits.
Need i say more?
I did consider asking her for a permit but the Mrs reckons it will increase our land taxes again..
So guess what?
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: coleman2347 on August 07, 2014, 08:37:42 AM
Good luck with that Fred hope it works out for you just be prepared for the authorities to come in and close it down for you at any time as you are technically stealing water that should be purchased from the franchised water distributer in your area

They usually follow the well drillers around to find the illegal wells just remember its more fun in the Phillip[pines

Tom

where we live My bro in law gave permission for one of our neighbours to hold their illegal cock fights on a piece of family his land..This occurred 3 times a year since.
Last elections our neighbour became mayor.. Of course these meeting are no longer illegal as they now sign their own permits.
Need i say more?
I did consider asking her for a permit but the Mrs reckons it will increase our land taxes again..
So guess what?
Im sure that happens in places here, but for those of us who live or have property in fairly remote places its not a problem...life goes on without a lot of red tape and stress....here, helmet laws, drivers license checks, road blocks, traffic cops, inspectors etc.  There, nada...
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: iamjames on August 07, 2014, 04:25:50 PM
So now you have two headaches SIMI: Land purchase and water drilling. Land purchase is the bigger headache. I have seen a few expats invest and develop land/lots only to have someone else come along and claim title! It's a potential minefield - and as a "Joe with unlimited finances" you could have to pay far more than you bargained for.
 
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: JoeLP on August 08, 2014, 11:09:18 AM
Good luck with that Fred hope it works out for you just be prepared for the authorities to come in and close it down for you at any time as you are technically stealing water that should be purchased from the franchised water distributer in your area

They usually follow the well drillers around to find the illegal wells just remember its more fun in the Phillip[pines

Tom

where we live My bro in law gave permission for one of our neighbours to hold their illegal cock fights on a piece of family his land..This occurred 3 times a year since.
Last elections our neighbour became mayor.. Of course these meeting are no longer illegal as they now sign their own permits.
Need i say more?
I did consider asking her for a permit but the Mrs reckons it will increase our land taxes again..
So guess what?
Im sure that happens in places here, but for those of us who live or have property in fairly remote places its not a problem...life goes on without a lot of red tape and stress....here, helmet laws, drivers license checks, road blocks, traffic cops, inspectors etc.  There, nada...

I'm in an area like Lee.  Very little to worry about.  Very little "government control" of the citizens.  On top of that the mayor of catarman, who is very popular after already doing 3 terms, then leaving, then after his wife, then another guy were in charge, was elected back by a landslide is really for smaller government in many ways and seen as a "man of the people".  Pretty crazy, but I have yet to see a police car/bike, or any road rules enforcers.  There are "traffic enforces" who for the most part sit on the side of the road and watch traffic.  A few actually get into the intersection and direct it.  As we build our house now, nada.  No inspections, not questions, no nothing.  We could do what we want.  Build it 6 stories high(someone did that, and the top 3 floors are empty to the columns and beams.  Kind of stupid) or build it out of straw and not the cement we are using, and nothing would happen.  Kinda crazy, but really ilberating and makes you feel real free.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: BingColin on August 08, 2014, 11:45:48 AM

As we build our house now, nada.  No inspections, not questions, no nothing.  We could do what we want.  Build it 6 stories high(someone did that, and the top 3 floors are empty to the columns and beams.  Kind of stupid) or build it out of straw and not the cement we are using, and nothing would happen.  Kinda crazy, but really ilberating and makes you feel real free.


I guess it depends on where you build, but we had to apply for a building permit where the plans had to be approved by seven different departments, but then there were no inspections during the build. We then had to get an occupancy permit which involved inspectio by three different departments including the fire department. They told us to buy four fire extinguishers and a smoke alarm. We also had to fit two sliding fire escapes but were told we could remove them after the inspection  :) There did not seem any control on exactly what we built but we had to meet all their regulations. The easiest way to do that is to get a draughtsman who they recommended to draw up the plan.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: fred on August 08, 2014, 01:18:30 PM
The only time we ever bother with an occupancy permit is if we need a mayors business permit.. We never bothered getting one for our house..I cant see the point.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: BingColin on August 08, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
The only time we ever bother with an occupancy permit is if we need a mayors business permit.. We never bothered getting one for our house..I cant see the point.

We were told that we had to get one before we could move in. We did not think we had any choice, but this is the Philippines......
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: coleman2347 on August 08, 2014, 03:24:54 PM
Joel P I totally agree, you could not pay me to live in a metro area where all the inspections and bs go on....its one of the major reasons I live here....freedom
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: ABCDeVil on August 08, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
The only concern I have, from my research into wells, is that lots of places have septic tank type systems. Ummm just a thought, where does that leech into the ground and could it go near your well water supply??? So maybe, as someone has said earlier, use and catch rain water, then pump that back into the house. This might mean, changing your roof / gutter system, to allow for better catchment of rain, before diverting into your underground water storage. As you are already thinking of digging anyway, you might consider making the holes bigger and putting in the underground tanks. Just my 2 piso's worth
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: BingColin on August 09, 2014, 08:04:34 AM
The only concern I have, from my research into wells, is that lots of places have septic tank type systems. Ummm just a thought, where does that leech into the ground and could it go near your well water supply??? So maybe, as someone has said earlier, use and catch rain water, then pump that back into the house. This might mean, changing your roof / gutter system, to allow for better catchment of rain, before diverting into your underground water storage. As you are already thinking of digging anyway, you might consider making the holes bigger and putting in the underground tanks. Just my 2 piso's worth

Many of the septic tanks built here, particularly the older ones, only have two chambers, a digester and a soak-away. The central settlement chamber is omitted which means that anything stirred up in the digester will get into the ground. Leach fields are also omitted because there is not room for them. Grey water is often directed to the digester tank which could kill off the bacteria and cause the tank to fill quickly. Add to that that very few people maintain anything, just fix it when it gets broke, and you have a very unhealthy situation.
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: Gray Wolf on August 09, 2014, 11:32:18 PM

I guess it depends on where you build, but we had to apply for a building permit where the plans had to be approved by seven different departments, but then there were no inspections during the build. We then had to get an occupancy permit which involved inspectio by three different departments including the fire department. They told us to buy four fire extinguishers and a smoke alarm. We also had to fit two sliding fire escapes but were told we could remove them after the inspection  :) There did not seem any control on exactly what we built but we had to meet all their regulations. The easiest way to do that is to get a draughtsman who they recommended to draw up the plan.

When we started off everyone was fine with our build.  The neighbors were excited to see the house and the bargangay officials had given us their blessing.  We were well into our build and moving along nicely, until the next door neighbor complained.  Seems shabu use had eaten into his brain and he was angry because we were going to "overshadow" his house.   ???  He kept complaining to the barangay which forced us to get the necessary permits, approved plans, etc.  This cost us about 1 month and several thousand pisos.  But the family prevailed, the plans were approved, signed off and the house was completed.  The whiny neighbor is now sitting in jail on drug charges.  Karma is a bitch    ;) :D   
Title: Re: ANSWERS REQUIRED BEFORE BUYING A PROPERTY SUITABLE FOR A DEEP WELL
Post by: Gray Wolf on August 10, 2014, 12:27:12 AM
I found some old pics of our original water pump and tank in Novaliches.  These were taken about 2001

The pressurized tank

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_WaterTank.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/WaterTank.jpg.html)

The well head with pump, both electric and manual

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_WellPump.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/WellPump.jpg.html)

Fast forward to 2014:

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_NovalichesNewRoof4.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/NovalichesNewRoof4.jpg.html)

While I'm in the album, here's a couple of pics of the old house compared to the new house:

Circa 2001-2002

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_Novaliches-OldFrontViewDuringStormEMAILSIZE.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/Novaliches-OldFrontViewDuringStormEMAILSIZE.jpg.html)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_NovalichesOldFrontAngleViewEMAILSIZE.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/NovalichesOldFrontAngleViewEMAILSIZE.jpg.html)

2010 (note water tank in corner of courtyard)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_Frontofhouse.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/Frontofhouse.jpg.html)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_HouseFrontfullviewpainted.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/HouseFrontfullviewpainted.jpg.html)

2 months ago, with new insulated roof over courtyard

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_NovalichesNewRoof1.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/NovalichesNewRoof1.jpg.html)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_NovalichesNewRoof3.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/NovalichesNewRoof3.jpg.html)

The family sari sari store

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/graywolf101/Novaliches%20Project/th_NovalichesNewRoof2.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/graywolf101/media/Novaliches%20Project/NovalichesNewRoof2.jpg.html)