Living In The Philippines Forum

It’s Your Money => Real Estate Information => Topic started by: gregpinton on September 01, 2018, 12:03:22 PM

Title: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on September 01, 2018, 12:03:22 PM
Hi everyone, this may have been covered already, but i am still confused, so i will explain my situation and see if someone can advise the correct law.

I am 61y/o Australian guy, married 28 years to a Filipino woman, we live in Australia.

We are going to Philippines in April 2019 for 2 month holiday, and 4 weeks will be spent in far northern Palwan (Diapila Bay) as we want to try and set up a couple of small cottages to rent out to tourists as there is only one other place there, a 2 story concrete house with 3 bedrooms that is available for tourists, which is owned by a local resident who also runs an island tour business in El Nido.

This guy tells me that he and his nephew are the primary land owners around Diapila Bay, but has no titles for any of his properties, just Tax Dec and some maps with lines drawn on them to show roughly what properties are his.

I asked if he had any beachfront property he can sell to me and my wife (1000sm to 5000sm) and he has such a property on the main beach but will only lease it for P100k per year for 10 years, which i think is too expensive, but i can negotiate with him i think when we go there next year.

He has a small beat up cottage on that land which he will get rid of, and he will tidy it up and also arrange to build 3 small Nipa hut cottages for us at a very reasonable cost, suitable for couples to stay in, and he will arrange for a local family to cook their meals and charge a small fee for this service, and he will have a local man maintain the 3 cottages and the surrounding land at no extra cost.

What would be required of my Wife and I to lease this land from the owner for say 10 years and then build the 3 cottages, as i understand that when the lease is over, we may have the choice of extending, or he can simply take the land back with the cottage on it, and start using it for his own business.

Would this guy need to pay us something for those cottages, and if so, should we include this in any lease agreement that we make (in writing) between him and my Wife and I.

Cheers
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: lost_in_samoa on September 01, 2018, 01:41:00 PM
has no titles for any of his properties, just Tax Dec and some maps with lines drawn on them to show roughly what properties are his.

We have see "informal" real estate agreements work out and turn into a mess both here and in Samoa.

In the good cases .... well it was good.  Folks got what they wanted and profited from each other.

In the bad cases it tore families apart.  Caused people to get in fights.  Wasted huge amounts of resources in court.

Without the possession of a clear, surveyed, deed of title then ownership and proceeds from that ownership can be called into question.

Any deal would be a subjective ...... faith ...... trust ...... based arrangement.

Ester and I looked for over a decade before we found a titled place.  IMO it is  crawling through a barrel of fish hooks.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on September 01, 2018, 03:58:53 PM
Thanks for the reply, not exactly the information i wanted, so i will see what other might have to say, especially because we want to get a legal document signed by the land owner for the Leasing of a property, so he can't pull the pin out from under us until the lease comes to term.

The whole idea is for us to build the 3 or even 4 Nipa style cottages (without any concrete construction) with all the floor, walls and roof built from hardwood timber frame with split bamboo on the floor, and the walls and roof clad with thatch, which will be the cheapest method of building, and easy to dismantle if we ever had to.

We want to make money from these cottages, and we would employ a local resident who can look after the guests, take the money, prepare the meals and maintain the cottages for us when we are not there, and the land owner will provide his boats for tours to surrounding beaches and islands, and for commuting them back and forth to and from El Nido, where they will initially arrive and depart from.

Cheers
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: suzukig1 on September 01, 2018, 04:03:25 PM
Unless you can agree on a contract that will result in a different outcome the land owner has control of what happens to improvements on the land at the end of a lease.

One option is that the land owner can require that the land be brought back to it's original condition at the lessee's expense.  This is the big club that usually forces the lessee to give up any improvements without recovering much from the land owner.  Option 1: You give everything to the land owner and end up with nothing.  Option 2: You pay to have the land brought back to it's original condition and end up with nothing (unless you can somehow save and move any structures).

You need a lawyer that has experience with drawing up leases.

As a start read the PHL Civil Code re: leases.  http://www.chanrobles.com/civilcodeofthephilippinesbook4.htm (http://www.chanrobles.com/civilcodeofthephilippinesbook4.htm)
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: lost_in_samoa on September 01, 2018, 05:11:27 PM
not exactly the information i wanted

I understand. 

What I can do is tell you about a fellow I knew in Samoa.  Kiwi,  fairly nice guy.  He took a long lease on a hill side lot from a local who had the same ownership documentation as is common here.  No title, just tax receipts and a few other circumstantial documents.

He and the "owner" worked out a contract on the lease and disposition of the improvements at expiry.  My friend executes the lease, finishes construction of a nice place.  He moves in with his new bride.  A cousin to the "owner".

Well couple of years later a "brother"  returns from serving in Iraq.  Spy's a nice looking place on the property.  Decides he likes it.  And takes his brother and my friend to court.  Sue's over lost income and sundry other charges.

The local community kinda rallied behind the veteran, and he prevailed in court.  Property was split between the brothers.  The leased lot being awarded to Iraq brother.

The lease was nullified.  My friend was evicted.  His improvements confiscated without compensation and transfered to Iraq brother.

I understand your situation.  But as long as the "owner" does not have title then there is the possibility that "Uncle Tito" can appear out of nowhere and make a claim.  The courts and community will probably favor him.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on September 01, 2018, 08:50:47 PM
I would want a lease agreement stipulating 10 years minimum with a fixed annual rate for the 10 years (no increases in lease fees) and have an option to lease for a further 5 years should both parties agree to it, and at an agreed annual fee, which may be higher than the previous rate was.

When the lease expires after 10 years, or 15 years (whatever the case may be) we can either clear the property and return it to its original condition, or we can we can ask the owner of the land pay us a set amount of money to leave the cottages there, and he completely take over the accommodation business from us, which i would think would be a much better option for him.

If we can build the cottages at minimal cost to us, the less we lose at the end if we are required to remove them, and building them from timber and thatch makes it a very simple job to remove them if we had to, and we want the cottages to be more akin to the surrounding dwellings on this beach as well, apart from the owners 2 story "yellow and green" concrete accommodation house that is built at one end of the beach.

We just need to make sure that we can make a go of the accommodation business so it gives us a small income on top of paying the lease fees every year, and it is our intention to live there for 6 months a year after 2021 if all goes to plan.

The plan we have worked out is to build 3 cottages initially, and charge 500 to 750 peso per night for each cottage, with occupancy running at 5 nights per week per cottage, and if this works, we can make around 390,000 to 580,000 peso per year depending on what we charge, with the lease costing 100k per year, or less if we can haggle it to say 75k per year, which is what i feel it is worth, given this region has not yet developed any tourism at all, and has only basic facilities, but is within 1 hour of El Nido by boat or vehicle.

As mentioned, a Lawer with skills in Leasing will definitely be a must, but i have to put this to the land owner and i am not sure how he will take this, as we have only talked online several times, and will meet him when we get to Diapila Bay next April to meet him.

Cheers

Edit by Steve: Removed link.



Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: JoeLP on September 01, 2018, 09:13:23 PM
There is a community a municipality away from where I live that is going through hell right now based on one thing...deeds.  The man who sold the land/leases has not showed proper deed work and everything is a mess with everyone blaming everyone and courts being used for different levels and difference cases.  The whole thing is a major mess.

Now, that ARE places in the phils where there is no deeds.  Hell, my wife's family lives in such a place.  A complete set of two barangays that have not had any deeds to land at any time.  When the time for deeds came about post WWII, there were claims from everyone and even the government on the land.  So ,no one got it.  No taxes are paid on it...no one has anything in any sense to show proof of ownership.  So who knows, maybe that's what you are dealing with. I don't know.

That said, if the place is not like one of those areas I just discussed, then I would do a damn thing without a deed.  Either the man you are going to lease from better have a deed showing himself as full owner or he's willing to sell you land with a deed.  There are FAR too many dangers that can bite you VERY hard in the butt if you move forward without a deed playing a part.  Because, like the story Samoa shared, the minute someone who DOES have that lease to that land you are wanting to lease shows up....you could be VERY screwed.  And in the philippines?  The law will NOT side with you.  Just won't happen.  And if your wife is not from that area, chances are they will not side with her. 
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: fred on September 01, 2018, 09:31:44 PM
Quote
I asked if he had any beachfront property he can sell to me and my wife (1000sm to 5000sm) and he has such a property on the main beach but will only lease it for P100k per year for 10 years, which i think is too expensive, but i can negotiate with him i think when we go there next year.

We are in a similar business but on a different island...Where we are, 100K for that much land on a beach front would cost 10X that amount!
2 things you need to be careful of with beach properties and ANY type of commercial building requiring a business permit..

1. Research very carefully about the easement zone in that area.. Some coastal areas have NO BUILD ZONES of up to 40 Meters from high tide mark.. Where we live,it`s 30 meters.
Since the Boracay drama the DENR are issuing demolition orders around the country.
Be ready for a shed load of requirements to start a business like that from the LGU and the DENR..
Ask the DENR about waste water from septic tank.. They will probably ask you to secure a waste water dispatch permit if there is no accredited waste water treatment facility.
You will also need an ECC certificate and attend a one week seminar to become a PCO.(Pollution Control Officer) and the list goes on and on..
2.
IMO this is not the type of business that will do well if you and your wife are not there managing it on a full time basis.. I cannot emphasis that enough.

In regards leasing,you need to be there and speak with at least 3/4 lawyers till you find one you feel confident with.. Leases here can be renewable but the terms of that renewal must be made clear in the original contract.. Lawyers here do not check any lien issues that the land may have..If the land is tax declaration,You will have to check that out yourself with visits too the DENR,the municipal hall,Barangay hall and the BIR.
If it`s titled you can check it out at The Land Registration Authority.


Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: piozam13 on September 01, 2018, 11:41:11 PM

2 things you need to be careful of with beach properties and ANY type of commercial building requiring a business permit..
2.
IMO this is not the type of business that will do well if you and your wife are not there managing it on a full time basis.. I cannot emphasis that enough.

totally agree, even if you have lease etc drawn up properly.  nobody might be interested today.  once people see you are making a little money,  many will be interested.  decent people might buy you out fairly - others might just "take over".
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on September 01, 2018, 11:41:51 PM
Thanks for the replies, don't know why my photo was removed from my last post which basically showed the beach area that we are looking at.

Anyway, we know for fact that the "land owner" has no deeds or title, he only has tax dec, and only gave me an aerial photo taken from google earth with a hand drawn outline of the location of the small property that he wants to lease to us, so that kind of annoys me, but i also needed to ask him who actually pay the taxes on that portion of land while it is under lease, him or us ?

Also, that plot he has would be about 50m wide but it goes back around 500m, and around 100m back he is building a concrete block house (its half complete) so we told him we only want the front portion back to about 50m  from the front boundary line (total of 2,500sm) which means he won't have to remove that house, all he needs to do is remove a couple of old shanties at the front, and clear the land for us.

We will be in Palawan for 4 to 6 weeks looking into this, staying in Diaila Bay and commuting back and forth between Diapila Bay and Peurto Princesa, where we hope to find a "reputable" lawer (cough cough) and do some research.

EDIT: in response to the last post, we do have several of my Wife's family members in Cavite who would be prepared to move there and run it for us, but i would be curious about how the locals there would feel having outsiders moving in and running it for us, as i got the impression from the land owner that we will employ him or someone in his family to run the accommodation side, but i told him i only wanted him to help us find a local family who can provide meals for the guests at whatever prices they asked.

If we got my Wife's niece and her hubby to run it, we would build 4 cottages so they can live in one, and basically do everything except the cooking of meals.

Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: lost_in_samoa on September 02, 2018, 06:24:54 AM
once people see you are making a little money,  many will be interested. 

Took me a while to remember the Latin.   Sorry I'm getting older.

"Nemo dat quod non habet" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet)
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: FastWalk on September 02, 2018, 06:48:44 AM
One thing to watch for is make sure you have a clearly defined and documented access from the main road in case the  property you like does not directly connect to the road.  Don't accept a verbal agreement for getting access or right of way to the road.  If there is no formal paperwork available get the barangay captain to be a signed witness to the agreement you need to have access to the road.   If the person you lease from has the access to the road,  make sure to include your agreement that you can also have access,  where that access is and how wide it is.

Go to the regional land registry either personally or have someone you completely trust and make sure the owner is the real owner.  It is some times common due to the CARP system for the real owner to not always be immediately in view.  Land can have more than one title,  usually the one filed in the registry is the proper one.  Getting a lease from a tenant might not protect you,  would want it from the real owner.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on September 02, 2018, 01:04:58 PM
Hi, just got a more detailed plan of the beach where we want to lease land, and have uploaded the image hoping the mods do not remove it this time.

You can see the 2 small white plots which he has offered us, right next to a small creek running from the hills at the back, we didn't know about this, so we have declined that land as it is too close to the main village area as well as being next to that creek.

When we get there we will approach the owner of the land marked in red and see if we can lease 20 to 25% of that area instead, as we know there are only a few shanty buildings on that land with a few families living in them, and it is more away from the village area as well, plus there is a 10 foot wide dirt access road running all the way along the back of the beach (about 50m back) that connects to the main road that goes to El Nido, apparently suitable for vans and trikes to travel on, which is what we also need.

Cheers
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on September 02, 2018, 06:01:17 PM
Hi, just got a more detailed plan of the beach where we want to lease land, and have uploaded the image hoping the mods do not remove it this time.

Hi Greg and welcome. Sorry about removing the links earlier but forum rules don't allow attachments to new members on probation. You are now cleared of that.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on September 02, 2018, 07:02:45 PM
Hi, thats ok, i had a feeling it may have been my new status.

Cheers
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: Hestecrefter on September 03, 2018, 12:11:28 AM
Greg,

I hate to join the chorus of naysayers, but I echo the sentiment that a measure of caution is required. 

The saving grace here is that megapesos are not involved.  Your downside risk is limited.  It sounds like your loss would be no more than one year’s lease cost, plus the money spent on the nipa huts, should the whole thing blow up in your face.  You can walk away and be out of pocket no more than $15,000 or so (I confess, however, that I have no idea what your construction costs will be, but it sounds like not a lot).

I find myself wondering why the “owner” of the property proposed to be leased is willing to lease at a modest P100,000/yr., then to build a few nipa huts on the cheap, and to throw in free maintenance services.  If he can do all that, why is he not already running the proposed business by himself and making P500,000 or more per year?

Another alarm goes off with this bit of info:


EDIT: in response to the last post, we do have several of my Wife's family members in Cavite who would be prepared to move there and run it for us, but i would be curious about how the locals there would feel having outsiders moving in and running it for us, as i got the impression from the land owner that we will employ him or someone in his family to run the accommodation side, but i told him i only wanted him to help us find a local family who can provide meals for the guests at whatever prices they asked.

If we got my Wife's niece and her hubby to run it, we would build 4 cottages so they can live in one, and basically do everything except the cooking of meals.


If it’s the case that the owner wants you to “employ him or someone in his family” (which does not surprise me at all), I can already sense the resentment (and attendant fallout) at you importing outsiders from Cavite to run the show. 

What would be the expectations of “wife’s niece and her hubby”, who propose to pull up stakes and move from Cavite?  Do they already have a stable source of income (I can guess the answer to that) or will they (most likely) expect to eat off the avails of tito Greg’s resort?  My guess is they are not moving there to provide services gratis.  What is their business experience?

A caveat with anyone running the show in your absence is their honesty.  I can see a fair amount of the proposed business being in cash and how will tito Greg know if some is being skimmed?

Earlier, I alluded to the notion that the nipa hut construction costs will likely be small.  Have you come up with any figures?  Whatever they may be, I would not hold out any hope for recovery at the end of the “lease”, assuming the whole thing does not fall out of bed before 10 or 15 years has run.  For one thing, the buildings will depreciate as a matter of accounting practice, regardless of upkeep.  Using the straight-line method to calculate depreciation, I would expect the useful life of a nipa hut used as a rental to be substantially consumed by the end of 15 years.  If I were the owner, being asked to pay you some kind of compensation for the residual value at lease end, I would probably tell you - in fluent Tagalog - to pound sand. 

As others here have suggested, abandon at the outset any hope of finding succor in the courts should things go sour.  It will take forever, cost you a fortune and be unwinnable.  If the plan is to have any prospect of success, it will depend, in part, upon the honesty, goodwill and decency of the participants.  Given that enforcing any contractual “rights” against a recalcitrant landlord will be nigh on impossible, I would consider any contract itself to be a thing writ in water.  If it works out it will be because the parties to the contract are people of integrity who take their obligations seriously. 

Even if you have the good fortune to be dealing with someone who is genuine and not wholly motivated by self-interest, bad things can happen.  As others here have suggested, with non-titled land someone can come out of the woodwork and assert a claim.  Your “landlord” might die during the term of the lease and his executors, administrators and assigns might take a rather different view of any arrangement and may decide it does not bind them at all.  Do you think you can force them into court and get an order requiring them to stay the course?  We’re not in Kansas anymore.

My apology for sounding so negative.  I am a lawyer and I have had a fair amount of personal experience in the Phils and, on occasion, walked away from a sight more than 10 or 15 thousand dollars.  My own view is that embarking on any “business” venture in the Phils should always be regarded as something fraught with risk and you should put up no more than you are prepared to lose.  If a $15,000 hit will leave you smarting, stay out.  A long time ago, when I was training as a CPA, I was taught a basic principle of business accounting: “Anticipate all losses.  Expect no gains.”  Those words ring as true today as they did then.  Time has served only to enhance their meaning.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: lost_in_samoa on October 04, 2018, 06:46:14 AM
A follow up article I ran across today.

Property sold without the consent of the owner (https://www.manilatimes.net/property-sold-without-the-consent-of-the-owner/448053/)
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: Gray Wolf on October 09, 2018, 11:05:37 PM
I've been reading this with a good deal of interest but can offer no suggestions except to pay heed to the words of wisdom shared by the other members of this group. I do however have a question (maybe two) that popped up during the reading of this thread. What experience do you and your wife have in running resort rental properties in a far away island? In that same vein, what experience does your niece and nephew have in running rental properties, or any business for that matter? I see too many ways for you and your profit to be separated. Sorry to say, but unless you personally plan to live there and watch over the property, I would say that you have a 99.9% chance for financial failure. Just my ever humble opinion. Your mileage may vary. Good luck!
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 05, 2018, 02:56:44 PM
Hi everyone, apologies for not returning until now, and i got so carried away with myself that i came back into the forum and started a brand new Topic regarding this matter, not thinking i already had this one from several months ago.

How things changed during my absence, so here is what i have been up to in the past month or so to try and sort this out with the owner before we go there next year.

Firstly, regards to the size of the Lot that we was offered, i stuffed up somewhat in my opening post of this topic about the size of the lot we was offered, it turned out to be a 500sm beachfront portion of a much bigger lot that the owner has further along the beach, and he wants P100,000 per year for 10 or 15 year lease, however i am going to try and get that down to P75,000 if i can because the beach is still not on any tourist route, and does not get a lot of tourists staying there, mainly because there has been nobody there promoting it, yet it is only 1 hour north from El Nido by boar or car.

I got back to the Lot owner a few weeks ago suggesting that we will be hiring a suitable lawer to do all the required paperwork for any deal that we make with him, and he agreed to this, but we have put a few options to him that we will be asking him to accept before signing any paperwork and us handing him any money.

We want an option to cancel the lease at any time during the 10 or 15 year term (paid up to the end of the current year) and if we do break the lease, we would surrender any dwellings that we have built on his land to him as part of surrendering the lease, but we want him to agree not to terminate the lease himself during the agreed lease period, unless we also agree to it, and if we did agree to it, he will be required to pay us for the actual cost of building any dwellings on the lot, or we will have them removed and re-located to another place (as the cottages will be built in sections and then erected on site so they can be pulled apart if need be.

We have not yet worked out what will happen to the dwellings should the agreed lease period run its full coarse and we do not renew the lease.

I have sent the Land owner plans for the cottages we want to build, and his carpenter advised each one (5.5m x 3.5m) will cost around P250,000 each (he can't give fixed price) which is what i thought they would be.

The idea we have now is for us to provide only the accommodation to tourists that go there, and the tourists will have their meals provided by the land owners wife at a small restaurant located at their home (tourists will pay directly to her) and the land owner himself will provide beach and island hopping trips around the region in his own boats, with them paying him directly as well, and we will have a house keeper to clean the cottages each day, who we will pay ourselves, this way we only need to concentrate on the accommodation side of the business, and other locals can earn some money themselves as well.

We are going back to Palawan next April for 6 weeks, so we will be checking out this particular plot of beachfront land that has been offered to us, and if we can work it out, my wife and the land owner can sort out the legalities and sign whatever documentation needs to be done before handing any money over (it will be a lump sum paid to him each year in advance)

My main concern right now is that i believe the Lot we want is not yet titled, just Tax Dec, and need to find out if the Lot owner is even allowed to Lease a portion to us, and because we will be operating a tourist accommodation business, i also need to find out what permits i need to get, and if i need to obtain building permits for the cottages we will be building as well, and if so, where we need to get them from.

I also need to find out if leasing the beachfront land is a better option than buying it outright, and finding out if the lease payments can be claimed against the business at tax time in the Philippines, or is it different over there as opposed to other countries.

The whole idea for leasing is that we can put our money into building the cottages, building up the business to attract tourists to stay there, and if anything goes wrong during the lease period, we can simply cancel the lease, and walk away leaving him the cottages to do with whatever he likes, and we have lost minimal cash in the process.

We are also looking at doing the same thing in Port Barton (south from El Nido) should this Lot fall thru, and we have been offered a partnership with 2 other existing Eco Resorts in Port Barton and northern Palawan as well, but really want our own place.

Finally, at least one of us would be living there and running it.

Cheers
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: David690 on December 05, 2018, 08:48:20 PM
Hi everyone, apologies for not returning until now, and i got so carried away with myself that i came back into the forum and started a brand new Topic regarding this matter, not thinking i already had this one from several months ago.

How things changed during my absence, so here is what i have been up to in the past month or so to try and sort this out with the owner before we go there next year.

Firstly, regards to the size of the Lot that we was offered, i stuffed up somewhat in my opening post of this topic about the size of the lot we was offered, it turned out to be a 500sm beachfront portion of a much bigger lot that the owner has further along the beach, and he wants P100,000 per year for 10 or 15 year lease, however i am going to try and get that down to P75,000 if i can because the beach is still not on any tourist route, and does not get a lot of tourists staying there, mainly because there has been nobody there promoting it, yet it is only 1 hour north from El Nido by boar or car.

I got back to the Lot owner a few weeks ago suggesting that we will be hiring a suitable lawer to do all the required paperwork for any deal that we make with him, and he agreed to this, but we have put a few options to him that we will be asking him to accept before signing any paperwork and us handing him any money.

We want an option to cancel the lease at any time during the 10 or 15 year term (paid up to the end of the current year) and if we do break the lease, we would surrender any dwellings that we have built on his land to him as part of surrendering the lease, but we want him to agree not to terminate the lease himself during the agreed lease period, unless we also agree to it, and if we did agree to it, he will be required to pay us for the actual cost of building any dwellings on the lot, or we will have them removed and re-located to another place (as the cottages will be built in sections and then erected on site so they can be pulled apart if need be.

We have not yet worked out what will happen to the dwellings should the agreed lease period run its full coarse and we do not renew the lease.

I have sent the Land owner plans for the cottages we want to build, and his carpenter advised each one (5.5m x 3.5m) will cost around P250,000 each (he can't give fixed price) which is what i thought they would be.

The idea we have now is for us to provide only the accommodation to tourists that go there, and the tourists will have their meals provided by the land owners wife at a small restaurant located at their home (tourists will pay directly to her) and the land owner himself will provide beach and island hopping trips around the region in his own boats, with them paying him directly as well, and we will have a house keeper to clean the cottages each day, who we will pay ourselves, this way we only need to concentrate on the accommodation side of the business, and other locals can earn some money themselves as well.

We are going back to Palawan next April for 6 weeks, so we will be checking out this particular plot of beachfront land that has been offered to us, and if we can work it out, my wife and the land owner can sort out the legalities and sign whatever documentation needs to be done before handing any money over (it will be a lump sum paid to him each year in advance)

My main concern right now is that i believe the Lot we want is not yet titled, just Tax Dec, and need to find out if the Lot owner is even allowed to Lease a portion to us, and because we will be operating a tourist accommodation business, i also need to find out what permits i need to get, and if i need to obtain building permits for the cottages we will be building as well, and if so, where we need to get them from.

I also need to find out if leasing the beachfront land is a better option than buying it outright, and finding out if the lease payments can be claimed against the business at tax time in the Philippines, or is it different over there as opposed to other countries.

The whole idea for leasing is that we can put our money into building the cottages, building up the business to attract tourists to stay there, and if anything goes wrong during the lease period, we can simply cancel the lease, and walk away leaving him the cottages to do with whatever he likes, and we have lost minimal cash in the process.

We are also looking at doing the same thing in Port Barton (south from El Nido) should this Lot fall thru, and we have been offered a partnership with 2 other existing Eco Resorts in Port Barton and northern Palawan as well, but really want our own place.

Finally, at least one of us would be living there and running it.

Cheers
I cannot offer any advice on the legalities of what you propose, but for what its worth here is my assessment of the financials.  500sqm is very small, and I doubt that you will manage more than 2 cottages in that space. 2 nights per week per cottage would be considered pretty reasonable occupancy rate, and therefore your income, assuming P500 per night, would be maximum of P104k per year.  Which is only just paying your rent on the land.  All other expenses will eat into your bottom line and I cannot see how that would be a profitable business.
Wishing you well and I am following with interest.


Edit by Steve: Fixed the quote.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: M.C.A. on December 06, 2018, 03:28:09 AM
Hi Gregpinton, This land would be considered squatters land because he appears to have no title so this land is worthless and I feel would be a huge money loss and nobody cares about how much money you've lost,  plus the Philippines is really cracking down on these resorts you could end up with fines or troubles with getting a license to run it they might want grease money and what about taxes and a business license Oh boy lets not go there and even deportation and blacklisting if you don't have the proper Visa such as a permanent resident. 

There's a guy on YouTube you should check out the addresses many of these issues and more and I think he's originally from England  his channel is BADLADZ, one of my favorite videos of his about resorts, this video is under his business youtube section so unsure if I can post this if not please remove but gives a wake up call to how things operate here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R74UNl1IVkQ&index=9&list=PLFaaIV9wPHKLJX84S06RnkPvtzfIbkDfg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R74UNl1IVkQ&index=9&list=PLFaaIV9wPHKLJX84S06RnkPvtzfIbkDfg)

I'd watch many if not all his business videos but he seems to do well he also owns condos we can own condos as foreigners.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 06, 2018, 01:32:46 PM
Hi guys, regarding the lot owners land being "Squatters" land and being worthless, i don't really know about that, he has now told me that all his properties in Diaplia Bar are Tax Dec, and are up to date, including the large portion of beachfront property that he owns, a portion of which he will lease to us, and this is why i am not going to do any more about this Lease until we go there next April, and my Wife's family in Manila has a Lawer who will take a trip to Diapila Bay to find out what is going on, and advise us accordingly, so we are aware of the pitfalls (i have lived and worked in the Philippines, and been married to my Filipino wife for 30 years, and have owned non titled beach fron properties in Calayo (Batangas)

I know Badladz, we have stayed with him in Puerto Galera several times several years ago, great bloke, and would arguably be the one to listen to regards to living in the Philippines.

As far as all this Government cracking down on businesses in tourist regions especially (Boracay and now El Nido to a lesser degree) we are aware of this, and we already have the updated information regarding lot and dwelling setbacks in Palawan, which is why i have notified the lot owner that i will be submitting my plans and lot layout to the correct authorities for approval, especially given we need to install a septic tank to each cottage.

This is not a case of just jumping in and opening a beach resort (which it isn't anyway) we have thought about it, we have talked to others who have done a similar thing to this (in other places in Palawan) and received good feedback from them, and we do understand that we are not going to make any money in the first year at least.

Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: M.C.A. on December 06, 2018, 04:06:39 PM
I'm a squatter on family land squatted land since 1940 and we pay land taxes there's no title and we could be evicted at any time and do you have a business or permanent resident visa, if not this doesn't bother you?... Wish you well with your new business endeavors.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: David690 on December 06, 2018, 07:26:45 PM
Hi guys, regarding the lot owners land being "Squatters" land and being worthless, i don't really know about that, he has now told me that all his properties in Diaplia Bar are Tax Dec, and are up to date, including the large portion of beachfront property that he owns, a portion of which he will lease to us, and this is why i am not going to do any more about this Lease until we go there next April, and my Wife's family in Manila has a Lawer who will take a trip to Diapila Bay to find out what is going on, and advise us accordingly, so we are aware of the pitfalls (i have lived and worked in the Philippines, and been married to my Filipino wife for 30 years, and have owned non titled beach fron properties in Calayo (Batangas)

I know Badladz, we have stayed with him in Puerto Galera several times several years ago, great bloke, and would arguably be the one to listen to regards to living in the Philippines.

As far as all this Government cracking down on businesses in tourist regions especially (Boracay and now El Nido to a lesser degree) we are aware of this, and we already have the updated information regarding lot and dwelling setbacks in Palawan, which is why i have notified the lot owner that i will be submitting my plans and lot layout to the correct authorities for approval, especially given we need to install a septic tank to each cottage.

This is not a case of just jumping in and opening a beach resort (which it isn't anyway) we have thought about it, we have talked to others who have done a similar thing to this (in other places in Palawan) and received good feedback from them, and we do understand that we are not going to make any money in the first year at least.

From what you say, you know more about this than anybody here.  Not sure exactly what you can learn from us and what you're asking for..........but I wish you well and hope that you will keep us advised of how it goes.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 06, 2018, 10:13:15 PM
From what you say, you know more about this than anybody here.  Not sure exactly what you can learn from us and what you're asking for..........but I wish you well and hope that you will keep us advised of how it goes.

I don't know why you think that i know more than anybody else in here, because i don't, however i am not an idiot either, and as i already mentioned several times, we are not jumping into this blind folded, we are just getting plans together, seeking advice, and looking at all the pitfalls that we may be facing during this venture, and when we arrive in Palawan next April, we will be taking a Family Lawer with us to sort the legalities out for us, and if he advises not to do this, we will walk away and try doing it elsewhere, or we will just buy into an existing business.

My Wife is Filipino, with dual citizenship, but i will be looking into getting the appropriate visa's and paperwork next April to enable me to live there on a permanent basis once we are clear to start this venture, and we will be obtaining all the correct building and business permits as well, as i don't want to be flaunting any laws because i know how tough the government can be over there.

I am a retired building contractor, hence why i am very familiar with drawing plans and making sure i get all the required permits before we start anything, and i would look forward to living at this place while the construction is taking place, and watching the skills of the local tradesmen.

As of tonight, my last communication with the Lot Owner has been thru Facebook/Messenger and he has now seen my proposal, as well as my Cottage Pans, and a Plan of the Lot Layout, and he has agreed to give us my required 30m x 20m lot to build the 3 cottages on, he still has not yet accepted my offer of P75,000 per year lease fee.

The whole idea behind this plan was to try and get other tourists to visit some of the other beautiful beaches and islands that Palawan is known for, unfortunately most foreigners seem to want to go to places such as El Nido, or Boracay, with both places being ruined by the locals who are only interested in the almighty dollar, and don't care about keeping their environments clean, so they deserve to be closed for restitution.

With our revised plan and new cottage design, and bigger beachfront lot, we fully understand that we will only cover our costs during the first year, based on my new estimates, and with a bit of luck, if it does work out, and we expand to a third cottage, we think we should have a pretty decent income earner in the future.

EDIT: i have been trying to upload a copy of my proposed Cottage plan, as well as the revised Lot layout, but it is not working for some reason, so i have them in my Backblaze account, and can be viewed by clicking the following 2 links.

https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/GlensShareStuff/Cottage%20Plans/Cottage%20Plan.jpg

https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/GlensShareStuff/Cottage%20Plans/Lot%20Plan%203%20cottage.jpg

Cottage will be something similar to this one. https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/GlensShareStuff/Cottage%20Plans/Cottage%201%20edit.jpg
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 07, 2018, 10:43:31 AM
Found this short but interesting article regarding property ownership and leasing by Badladz.

https://badladz.com/property-ownership-in-the-philippines/

Lease of Property

Now, Lease property from the “owner”. This is legal also.

Write a Lease Contract on the property for 75 years. Pay 10 pesos per year in advance and get a receipt to prove payment. Then REGISTER THIS LEASE ON TITLE. (in my case P75,000 per year in advance)

You now have Physical Control.

A Foreigner can Legally have property ownership in the Philippines on buildings that are on someone else’s property through a process called TAX DECLARATION. This means you pay the taxes on the building and proves your ownership.

If you want to build on that property or there is already an existing building then create a document from the “owner” of the property saying that you have permission to build or purchase the building from the “owner “. Should you ever vacate the property, the owner must reimburse you for construction costs.

Under Article 1678, the lessor upon the termination of the lease shall pay you one-half of the value of the improvements at that time.

Should the lessor refuse to reimburse you said amount, you may remove (demolish) the improvements, even though the principal thing may suffer damage thereby (my cottages will be built in pre-fab format anyway, making them easier to build and dismantle)

The only thing i noticed was there is no mention of what happens if you lease any property from the owner that is only Tax Dec and not titled, but i believe the process is exactly the same, but it can be more of a risk because of the non titled aspect of the leased property.

The lot owner in my case has had his lot surveyed and is awaiting the title process to be completed, which he tells me can be at any time, which doesn't help me out as i really need this lot to be titled before we do anything, so i have asked him if he can check this out for me, and let the people who are dealing with this matter know that he has someone interested in leasing the lot, but will only do so if the lot has a title, they may then speed up the process, but i would not hold my breath for too long.

The section referring to the termination of the lease i found very interesting, and was not actually aware of until i read that article, where it appears that i can actually ask the lot owner to pay me for the actual cost of building the cottages, plus 1/2 of the cost of any improvements made on the property at the time of termination, or i can remove the cottages and take them elsewhere.

I now have to re-think how i can work this out with the lot owner, because if i was to spend say P1,000,000 to build 3 cottages with solar in the first 2 or 3 years, and i was to pay the owner P100,000 per year lease fees over 10 years, then i cannot see him accepting a lease agreement if he has to pay all the lease fees back to me for the cost of the buildings, but if i don't ask him for anything and i leave the cottages there, then he can start his own business by renting them out himself, and the cottages will also drive up the value of his lot as well.







Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: Peter on December 07, 2018, 12:18:13 PM
Greg.

There are too many variables, IMHO, to be able to make any constructive (pun intended LOL) suggestions.

The legal status of the land as you have described, is debatable. Does he really own it? Are there any encumbrances on the title?
<... and let the people who are dealing with this matter know that he has someone interested in leasing the lot, but will only do so if the lot has a title, they may then speed up the process,  ... >

In my experience, the only way to expedite official transactions would be to use an "express lane" method and even then what you get may not be on the "up and up."

As an example of what can, or may, be in store, albeit in quite an extreme situation.
NAPOLCOR (the National Power Corporation) were given all the required Government permissions to expand their site in our barangay.

They are purchasing, from the original owners - a family of which there are 6 sons/daughters as beneficiaries, 5 of whom have not lived here for many, many years - 32 hectares of what was being farmed as rice/corn lands. All the land was being used, with permission, as farm land by locals. Of the 32 hectares, about 12 were under "Tax Declaration", while the remainder only had permission to farm.

NAPOLCOR paid off, as a good will gesture, the tenants of the 20 odd hectares of non-tax paid land, for the crops/trees/buildings and are now preparing that part for development. Farm houses have been demolished, paddy and corn fields are bulldozed flat, project office containers are installed and tower bases already constructed.

Most of those who have paid the annual land taxes (tax declaration) about 12 hectares, are in court to stop the sale/purchase of the land. (Holding out for more money it is thought locally.) Even though they don't own the property, they still have a form of legal right to occupy. My wife's best friend, who lives quite near, is the daughter of one of the family owners, and said the other day that the legal business has been in court for over 6 months and the local court has now reserved their judgement until next May!

Folks who don't own the land can get paid for moving out! A right bugger's muddle it appears to be.

Now, although most of the above is not applicable in your situation, it spells out, I think, just how fraught land occupation is without the absolute right to own the "mother title".

My only advice would be not to pursue this until the "owner" has the proper title registered in his name.  Even then get a legal opinion, based on current Philippines' land law, by an independent Filipino lawyer, before proceeding further.

But what do I know? My thoughts only. More fun in the Philippines LOL!

Peter
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 07, 2018, 02:29:02 PM
Thanks a lot Peter, a great post indeed, and as mentioned before, we are not going into this blind folded, and leasing i believe is still our first option because the purchase prices of 600sm beachfront lots in northern Palawan (north of El Nido) is simply way over priced, with leasing we can at least claim this cost each year against the business expenses (i know this for sure as of today) and i know we will never buy any lot unless it has the clear title, but leasing a lot with tax dec only is a lot more risky i think.

The lease price of P75,000 per year that we offered to the lot owner has been based on how many tourists go to this place, and what infrastructure is in place (water/power/road access etc) and this region is not a recognized tourist beach as of now, purely because nobody except the owner of the lot that i want has built any accommodation there for tourists to stay in (a 3 bedroom 2 story house with small restaurant) but many who do arrive there do want to stay for a few nights because it is more remote and only inhabited by local Filipino people, but they end up moving on to another place where there is more accommodation.

The lot owner has guaranteed that he is the registered tax dec owner, and taxes are up to date, but he can't tell me when the title will be issued, but he keeps insisting that a lot of properties in Palawan is bought and sold only as tax dec, but i have told him i will only lease if he gets the title first, even if i have to go to the place who processes the title and explain my situation to them (maybe pay a few bribes)

I asked the lot owner a few hours ago what will happen to my 3 cottages when the lease is finished, and he explicitly told me that he wants the cottages handed over to him and we walk away, telling me this is the common lease practice in Palawan, when i don't believe this is so (just in Palawan) so i told him i will not accept this AND pay him P100,000 lease fee each year, because the first 2 cottages will cost me at least P800,000 all up with solar power and water tanks, and another cottage later on will add another P400,000 on top, so at the end we walk away and he can continue running a business and his land value will go up because the cottages are there.

I have now decided not to start this unless he gets the clear title first, and i have decided to make him a new offer now before we go any further.

Option 1: we offer him P50,000 lease fee per year over 10 years (P500,000 total) and we spend P1.2m to build 3 cottages, which equates to P1.7m out of our pocket, and he gets the cottages when the lease period expires.

Option 2, we offer him his P100,000 per year over 10 years (P1.0m total) and we spend P1.2m to build 3 cottages, which equates to P2.2m out of our pocket, but when we walk away after the lease expires, he has to pay us P600,000 for 50% of the cottage construction cost, leaving us P1.6m out of pocket, if he can't pay the P600,000 then we remove 2 of the cottages and leave him just one.

The lot owner is the winner regardless of which option he takes, after 10 years his lot value has risen quite a lot, especially with those cottages already there, and he can continue to operate his own business using them.

The problem with Option 2 is that we have no idea if he will have the cash to pay the P600,000 for 50% of the cottage construction cost, and i would not really want to remove 2 of the cottages, even tho they will be built as pre-fab, so for me, option 1 is the one i would prefer, but i don't like my chances to be honest.

We have 2 other lots offered to us, one is just 15 minutes from Diapila Bay (Bucana) 500sm for P3.5m purchase outright with title pending, and another in Port Barton, south from El Nido, which is 1,800sm clear titled lot with a brand new 64sm bamboo house already, selling for P1.5m, but it is not on the beach.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: David690 on December 07, 2018, 06:44:53 PM
I don't know why you think that i know more than anybody else in here, because i don't, however i am not an idiot either, and as i already mentioned several times, we are not jumping into this blind folded, we are just getting plans together, seeking advice, and looking at all the pitfalls that we may be facing during this venture, and when we arrive in Palawan next April, we will be taking a Family Lawer with us to sort the legalities out for us, and if he advises not to do this, we will walk away and try doing it elsewhere, or we will just buy into an existing business.

My Wife is Filipino, with dual citizenship, but i will be looking into getting the appropriate visa's and paperwork next April to enable me to live there on a permanent basis once we are clear to start this venture, and we will be obtaining all the correct building and business permits as well, as i don't want to be flaunting any laws because i know how tough the government can be over there.

I am a retired building contractor, hence why i am very familiar with drawing plans and making sure i get all the required permits before we start anything, and i would look forward to living at this place while the construction is taking place, and watching the skills of the local tradesmen.

As of tonight, my last communication with the Lot Owner has been thru Facebook/Messenger and he has now seen my proposal, as well as my Cottage Pans, and a Plan of the Lot Layout, and he has agreed to give us my required 30m x 20m lot to build the 3 cottages on, he still has not yet accepted my offer of P75,000 per year lease fee.

The whole idea behind this plan was to try and get other tourists to visit some of the other beautiful beaches and islands that Palawan is known for, unfortunately most foreigners seem to want to go to places such as El Nido, or Boracay, with both places being ruined by the locals who are only interested in the almighty dollar, and don't care about keeping their environments clean, so they deserve to be closed for restitution.

With our revised plan and new cottage design, and bigger beachfront lot, we fully understand that we will only cover our costs during the first year, based on my new estimates, and with a bit of luck, if it does work out, and we expand to a third cottage, we think we should have a pretty decent income earner in the future.

EDIT: i have been trying to upload a copy of my proposed Cottage plan, as well as the revised Lot layout, but it is not working for some reason, so i have them in my Backblaze account, and can be viewed by clicking the following 2 links.

https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/GlensShareStuff/Cottage%20Plans/Cottage%20Plan.jpg

https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/GlensShareStuff/Cottage%20Plans/Lot%20Plan%203%20cottage.jpg

Cottage will be something similar to this one. https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/GlensShareStuff/Cottage%20Plans/Cottage%201%20edit.jpg

Apologies if I came across as being confrontational.  That is not my nature.  My comment was based upon the fact that for every piece of advice or input from members up until now, you always have stated that you have already considered that and have a way around or a solution for it.  Anyway, as I say before, I wish you very success and hope that you will keep us all updated hoe it works out.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 07, 2018, 07:45:02 PM
Apologies if I came across as being confrontational.  That is not my nature.  My comment was based upon the fact that for every piece of advice or input from members up until now, you always have stated that you have already considered that and have a way around or a solution for it.  Anyway, as I say before, I wish you very success and hope that you will keep us all updated hoe it works out.

Its all good David, maybe i came across as a bit of a "bobby know it all" but in reality, we have been involved with buying tax dec properties several years ago in Batangas and Mindoro Island, later on selling them after we got them titled (was a nightmare) for a good profit, but a lot has changed in 15 years, so i need to basically start looking at how it all works today.

We also spent 18 months in Mindoro where we also managed (on a profit share basis) a small beachfront nipa hut resort for the Australian owner, so we are familiar with the tourist business, but not as owners of a tourism business or resort, which in itself would not be dissimilar to each other, however it was more to do with the legalities of actually leasing land to build our cottages on, as i was not able to find anything relating to leasing tax dec land, only titled land, and the best information i got was from the link i provided up the page to Badladz article about buying/leasing property in the Philippines.

So the main focus for this topic going forward was to find out if anyone had solid information relating to leasing tax dec land, and the only solid info i have found is to only lease a titled property for our own legal welfare, so we have heeded this warning and have now told the lot owner that we can't accept any offer until his lot has the clear title in his name only, so i think this is probably not going to happen by the time we arrive in Palawan next April.

Also, i cannot give him his P100,000 per year, spend P1.2m on 3 cottages (possibly more) and then walk away with nothing after 10 years, better he accept P50,000 per year, and then we give him the cottages, better for us, better for him as he gets to continue the business, or we extend the lease at P50,000 per year for another 5 years.

Now looking into other land options just in case.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 11, 2018, 12:05:40 PM
This is a xerox copy of the section of beach that the lot owner had surveyed, i can't read it, but the original is back at his home in Diapila Bay (he runs an island tour business from El Nido)

He finally told me that the lot is 50m wide x 30m back, so it is actually 1,500sm in total, and when i questioned him about the 600sm that he said i can have for P100,000 per year, he now tells me i can have all 1,500sm for that price, and i think he may have done this because i made a counter offer of 50,000 per year and he can keep 2 of the cottages that i build, if there is 3 he has to pay me for 50% of the building cost for that one, which is the offer our family lawyer advised me to give him.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: M.C.A. on December 11, 2018, 04:23:19 PM
We also had one of these plans drawn up or map but the in-laws took it from us or we failed to make a copy and after years of messing lawyers and trying to get a title we gave up.

In-laws used this same legal drawing we had drafted to sell land but it couldn't' be titled it was a mess and nobody owns the property the woman who paid 500,000 pesos was shot as she opened her door on another unrelated issue.
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on December 11, 2018, 10:53:12 PM
Yes, it is a nightmare, especially in more remote fishing villages on pristine beaches that are not yet developed for tourism, and the whole reason for us wanting to lease this beachfront lot is so that we can get some of the tourists visiting Coron and El Nido to visit the beach and stay a night or 2.

It is at the far northern end of Palawan, on the western side, 1 hour by boat north from El Nido, and hundreds of tourists go past it every day in the fast ferries that commute between El Nido and Coron.

We also just found out today that another Filipino resident from this beach at Diapila has just completed (last week) a big concrete building which houses several rooms for tourists, and a restaurant out the front, and has just employed several local ladies to work there.

Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on June 26, 2019, 05:05:07 PM
Sorry about posting back so late, had nothing more to add to this topic late last year, but we got back from a 2 month trip to Palawan Island 3 weeks ago, and as i suspected, the so called owner of the beach front property who offered to lease to us a 1500sm portion for 10 years at P1m per year was not being truthful after all.

We took a 1 hour boat trip to that place from El Nido (Nacpan beach) one day without telling this guy we was coming, and we spent 3 days there (incognito) without telling anyone who we was, and a lot of stuff that the land owner had told me was not correct, and thankfully he was not there during those 3 days because it allowed some of the locals there to tell us things without the owner knowing about it.

Seems like there is a lot of ill feeling in that place among the locals and these rich land owners, and even if this land owner was being up front with me, i would never want to deal with anyone who blatantly ripped off the previous owners of that land (in this case over half the length of the beach) and took over like they were all scum, and threw them all out and forced them into the back hills to live.

In Palawan, nearly every square meter of so called potential tourism beach property is now owned by greedy, self indulging local government officials or politicians, who threw wads of cash at the poor villagers who lived on these beaches and sent them packing, ang got their croney lawer mates to change the ownership into their names so the previous owner had no way of getting their land back.

Sad that even Filipino people will rip off their own people like that, and this reinforces my belief in never staying in any resort or lodgings that is owned by a Filipino politician, a member of the local council (mayor or otherwise) or a foreigner, when i go to the Philippines i only support businesses that are completely owned by normal every day local residents, so the money i pay stays in the region (hopefully)

We did end up discovering a new place that we had never heard of before (in Palawan) that not many foreigners go to at the moment, and while there we entered into negotiations with a Filipino family to buy, or lease a 2,500sm portion of titled beachfront property on the main beach just outside of the main town (the owners want to relocate back to Mindanao to live) and as well as that, we are also negotiating with the owners of an existing beach front lodging on the same beach (it has 5 bamboo bungalows and a small restaurant) to invest some cash into the business so they can expand by 50% and build another 5 bamboo bungalows, which would mean that we would become 25% co-owners of that place (it has a clear, clean title)

Going back in 3 months to sort out all the finer details.

Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: Peter on June 26, 2019, 05:23:15 PM
Greg.

Congrats. It's always better to have the boots on the ground and your 'sneaky-beaky' way was even better.  :) :) :)

Unfortunately, those with money tend to greedy bar stewards, no matter the country they come from.

Some try to justify such practises as, "Only business, nothing personal!"  Greedy toads I call them. Karma will have a way of dealing with those.I hope!

Peter
Title: Re: Buying/Leasing land or house in Philippines
Post by: gregpinton on June 26, 2019, 06:44:24 PM
Thanks, some things were meant to be, others not, and i often thought something was not right with that other venture, which is why i had to be sure that when we got to that beach, the owner was not going to be there.

I actually messaged him via messenger the day before to ask if he was there, and he told me he was still in El Nido running another business that he owns there, so i found a local fisherman at Nacpan beach (Calitang beach to be precise) who was able to take us to this place so i could look into everything without the guy being there.

The place we have now looked at will most likely become a very popular tourist spot in Palawan, i think in around 5 years it will start to grow as more Foreigners find it and start spreading the word (most of the tourists going there are Filipino people from Palawan) so we decided to invest there now while things are still quiet, and very affordable, and local residents still own all the land, but we are not spending so much cash that we will lose it all if tourism doesn't take off in a big way, because to be really honest, this place needs to be protected from over commercialization, but have a big enough tourism boost to help support the wonderful locals in that region, most of whom are fishermen from what i can tell.

The Lodging place we want to invest in is all set up, has been there for 5 years, and is the only beach front lodging in the whole region, so to start a new beach front lodging from scratch right now would be a mistake, and makes more sense to invest in something already set up, and just expand it a bit to cater for a few more tourists, and the only other lodgings are 3 backpacker guesthouse type lodgings in the main town, and a few small bars and restaurants scattered around the town as well.

The land we want to buy or lease will be left as it is for a few years, and there is currently 8 families living on that property in shanties, so they will be staying there, and will caretake and keep the property clean for us in exchange for living there, and if we ever decide to develop the land, it will be just a small holiday house in the middle that we can use ourselves, or rent out to other family members or Aussie tourists whenever we are not there, and we will designate a couple of the ladies who live on that land to prepare meals and do the housekeeping for guests who stay there, and the guests will pay them a fee directly rather than do it thru us.

Big plans and plenty of time to do it.