Author Topic: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship  (Read 27905 times)

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2014, 09:04:01 AM »
My question is, what if my wife just renews her Philippines passport before it expires when we are traveling in the Philippines?  Right now, she has both unexpired US and RP passports.  If we forego the whole 'citizenship reclaiming' issue, how would the RP ever know?  It seems to me, they don't have any way of keeping track of this.
The reason I am asking is that for us, it is a huge and expensive hassle to do this 'reclaiming' since the consulate is a 7 hour drive one way. 
I just don't see anyway they'd ever know, so I'm inclined to skip it.
"If we forego the whole 'citizenship reclaiming' issue, how would the RP ever know"?  It seems to me, they don't have any way of keeping track of this.
What if an immigration officer at the airport in Manila, asks your wife to show proof of dual citizenship when she presents two passports at the immigration counter, one foreign and for a Filipino citizen? Does she have her "IC" Identification Certificate" letter available from the Philippine Consulate where her dual citizenship was derived from under RA9225?
Then again, your wife could probably get away with it for years to come, but there could be that one chance that she can be asked to show proof of her dual citizenship! Then what? Her birth certificate and or marriage contract will not be enough proof without that "IC" letter!
What can be the immigration repercussions when found out when one did not go through the legal process in reacquiring one's Filipino citizenship? I don't know the answer to that, but would your wife be willing to take that chance? It only cost $50 and maybe a few hours at the Philippine Consulate in the U.S. to reacquire one's Filipino citizenship under RA 9225, in the Philippines it can days to weeks, not sure though!       

Refer to the previous post from PalawanAssusie:
http://www.livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php?topic=13516.msg52090#msg52090

* What is the use of the Identification Certificate?

The Identification Certificate (IC) may serve as an alternative proof of Philippine citizenship in case a dual citizen is unable to present his Philippine passport when returning to the Philippines. Since issuance of ICs usually takes time, it is advisable for those who have acquired dual citizenship to apply for Philippine passports

* What documents shall be presented by dual or multiple citizens upon arrival in the Philippines?

Filipinos with dual or multiple citizenships are advised to present both their Philippine and foreign passports. Arrival details shall be stamped on both. In case only a foreign passport is presented, the traveler may still be admitted into the Philippines for an indefinite period of stay, provided he presents a valid Identification Certificate.

On the foreign passport, the immigration officer shall stamp either of the following, whichever is applicable: “PP” – if a Philippine passport is also presented, or “IC” – if an Identification Certificate is presented.

* What documents shall be presented by dual or multiple citizen upon departure from the Philippines?

Filipinos with dual or multiple citizenships are advised to present both their Philippine and foreign passports in order to avoid paying the Emigration Certificate Clearance (ECC) fee. This is also to ensure that all arrival and departure records are reflected completely on both passports. Those who had only presented only a foreign passport at the time of their admission into the Philippines may be cleared for departure without need of surrendering a certificate, permit or proof of payment of imposable immigration fees, provided they present, at the time of departure, a genuine and valid Philippine passport or an Identification Certificate.

On the foreign passport, the immigration officer shall stamp either of the following, whichever is applicable: “PP” – if a Philippine passport is also presented, or “IC” – if an Identification Certificate is presented.

If the traveler fails to present both his Philippine passport or Identification Certificate, at both arrival and departure, he shall be assessed an Emigration Certificate Clearance (ECC) fee of P710.00 for using a foreign passport upon departure.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 09:35:00 AM by Art, "Just a re(tired) Fil-Am" »
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Offline rayhigh

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2014, 09:42:59 AM »

From everything I've read, including what you posted links to/quoted, they ask for one or the other, not both.

The problem is, it isn't $50 and a few hours.  It's a goddamn 14 hour round-trip drive, a hotel room, getting a sitter to watch the kids for two whole days, etc.  More like $500, to satisfy a bureaucracy that will never know any different. 

My question is, what if my wife just renews her Philippines passport before it expires when we are traveling in the Philippines?  Right now, she has both unexpired US and RP passports.  If we forego the whole 'citizenship reclaiming' issue, how would the RP ever know?  It seems to me, they don't have any way of keeping track of this.
The reason I am asking is that for us, it is a huge and expensive hassle to do this 'reclaiming' since the consulate is a 7 hour drive one way. 
I just don't see anyway they'd ever know, so I'm inclined to skip it.
"If we forego the whole 'citizenship reclaiming' issue, how would the RP ever know"?  It seems to me, they don't have any way of keeping track of this.
What if an immigration officer at the airport in Manila, asks your wife to show proof of dual citizenship when she presents two passports at the immigration counter, one foreign and for a Filipino citizen? Does she have her "IC" Identification Certificate" letter available from the Philippine Consulate where her dual citizenship was derived from under RA9225?
Then again, your wife could probably get away with it for years to come, but there could be that one chance that she can be asked to show proof of her dual citizenship! Then what? Her birth certificate and or marriage contract will not be enough proof without that "IC" letter!
What can be the immigration repercussions when found out when one did not go through the legal process in reacquiring one's Filipino citizenship? I don't know the answer to that, but would your wife be willing to take that chance? It only cost $50 and maybe a few hours at the Philippine Consulate in the U.S. to reacquire one's Filipino citizenship under RA 9225, in the Philippines it can days to weeks, not sure though!       

Refer to the previous post from PalawanAssusie:
http://www.livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php?topic=13516.msg52090#msg52090

* What is the use of the Identification Certificate?

The Identification Certificate (IC) may serve as an alternative proof of Philippine citizenship in case a dual citizen is unable to present his Philippine passport when returning to the Philippines. Since issuance of ICs usually takes time, it is advisable for those who have acquired dual citizenship to apply for Philippine passports

* What documents shall be presented by dual or multiple citizens upon arrival in the Philippines?

Filipinos with dual or multiple citizenships are advised to present both their Philippine and foreign passports. Arrival details shall be stamped on both. In case only a foreign passport is presented, the traveler may still be admitted into the Philippines for an indefinite period of stay, provided he presents a valid Identification Certificate.

On the foreign passport, the immigration officer shall stamp either of the following, whichever is applicable: “PP” – if a Philippine passport is also presented, or “IC” – if an Identification Certificate is presented.

* What documents shall be presented by dual or multiple citizen upon departure from the Philippines?

Filipinos with dual or multiple citizenships are advised to present both their Philippine and foreign passports in order to avoid paying the Emigration Certificate Clearance (ECC) fee. This is also to ensure that all arrival and departure records are reflected completely on both passports. Those who had only presented only a foreign passport at the time of their admission into the Philippines may be cleared for departure without need of surrendering a certificate, permit or proof of payment of imposable immigration fees, provided they present, at the time of departure, a genuine and valid Philippine passport or an Identification Certificate.

On the foreign passport, the immigration officer shall stamp either of the following, whichever is applicable: “PP” – if a Philippine passport is also presented, or “IC” – if an Identification Certificate is presented.

If the traveler fails to present both his Philippine passport or Identification Certificate, at both arrival and departure, he shall be assessed an Emigration Certificate Clearance (ECC) fee of P710.00 for using a foreign passport upon departure.

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2014, 10:30:39 AM »
From everything I've read, including what you posted links to/quoted, they ask for one or the other, not both.
The problem is, it isn't $50 and a few hours.  It's a goddamn 14 hour round-trip drive, a hotel room, getting a sitter to watch the kids for two whole days, etc.  More like $500, to satisfy a bureaucracy that will never know any different. 
Don't shoot the messenger! I do understand your frustrations with all this immigration BS, but immigration rules are the rules!
It's not one or the other! According to the Philippines immigration rules and regulations already posted on here, it's both passports upon entering the Philippines, but in most cases upon entering the U.S. or other foreign countries they will tend to ignore the Philippine passport and not even ask for it!
To be on the safe side, it's just best to find out in advance what are the passport & visa requirements to which ever country one is entering!   
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 10:37:23 AM by Art, "Just a re(tired) Fil-Am" »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline rayhigh

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2014, 10:45:49 AM »
I know it's both passports.  What I was referring to re: one or the other is either a Philippines passport OR  Identification Certificate.  You don't need a Philippines passport AND an Identification Certificate. 

From everything I've read, including what you posted links to/quoted, they ask for one or the other, not both.
The problem is, it isn't $50 and a few hours.  It's a goddamn 14 hour round-trip drive, a hotel room, getting a sitter to watch the kids for two whole days, etc.  More like $500, to satisfy a bureaucracy that will never know any different. 
Don't shoot the messenger! I do understand your frustrations with all this immigration BS, but immigration rules are the rules!
It's not one or the other! According to the Philippines immigration rules and regulations already posted on here, it's both passports upon entering the Philippines, but in most cases upon entering the U.S. or other foreign countries they will tend to ignore the Philippine passport and not even ask for it!
To be on the safe side, it's just best to find out in advance what are the passport & visa requirements to which ever country one is entering!   

Offline meylou

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2014, 10:49:16 AM »
Actually, we will be living in the Philippines by the time she needs to renew it early next year, so she would be doing it there.  IIRC, her passport is new enough so that it is already the new version of the passport.  I will update this thread once we are through the process. 
If you really don't need for your wife to apply for dual citizenship, then don't it.  Unless, of course, you'd want to be eligible for a 13A status later on.  You'll still get the BB stamp on your passports when you arrive and just keep doing visa runs.  As for renewing her passport in the Philippines, you can always try. If you are successful, there could be repercussions later on, down the road, but there's only one way to find out.
Good luck. 
What we think we become... Buddha
:)

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2014, 11:06:00 AM »
I know it's both passports.  What I was referring to re: one or the other is either a Philippines passport OR  Identification Certificate.  You don't need a Philippines passport AND an Identification Certificate. 
A note is written on the "IC" letter saying "Not to be used for travel purposes", it's only good as an I.D. certificate upon entering the Philippines without a Philippine passport. Eventually she could be asked why she doesn't have a Philippine passport! I do not know how long the validity of an "IC" letter is good for!
My wife still has her "IC" letter, but she still hasn't applied for her Philippine passport, she will eventually though!
For now, I am still using the "Balikbayan Program" and before it expires I just request for 6 month interval tourist visa extensions good up to an additional 24 month stay after my BB stamp has expired! I'm now on my 3rd 6 month tourist visa extension under the provisions under RA6768! That's because I do not like doing annual visa runs out of the country!

http://www.livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php?topic=48632.0
• Correspondingly, all Balikbayans 14 years and below and 60 years of age shall be allowed to extend their temporary visitor visa under Section 9a of the Philippine Immigration Act of 1940 as amended, for a maximum period of 6 months for every extension PROVIDED that all appropriate fees are paid. Thus, Balikbayans are allowed a maximum total stay of 2 years inclusive of all extensions. (MEMORANDUM ORDER NO. ADD – 02 – 011 dated 11 February 2002).
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 11:16:36 AM by Art, "Just a re(tired) Fil-Am" »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline rayhigh

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2014, 11:11:23 AM »
I know it's both passports.  What I was referring to re: one or the other is either a Philippines passport OR  Identification Certificate.  You don't need a Philippines passport AND an Identification Certificate. 
A note is written on the "IC" letter saying "Not to be used for travel purposes", it's only good as an I.D. certificate upon entering the Philippines without a Philippine passport. Eventually she could be asked why she doesn't have a Philippine passport! I do not know how long the validity of an "IC" letter is good for!
My wife still has her "IC" letter, but she still hasn't applied for her Philippine passport, she will eventually though!

I must be having a hard time conveying what I am trying to get across.

Look - she ALREADY HAS an unexpired Philippines passport (as well as a US one - she just naturalized in March of this year).  What I am contending is that we could 1) apply for a 13a for me 2) go to the Philippines and 3) renew her Philippines passport in the Philippines when it expires, and that we could do all of these things without the hassle of 'reclaiming' her Philippines citizenship, since there's no need to mention her U.S. citizenship when we apply for the 13a at the consulate here in the states.  Further, when entering the Philippines she simply shows both passports.  It isn't as if the RP has access to a database of U.S. passport holders....

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2014, 11:25:09 AM »
Most of us on here know what you are trying to do, is to circumvent the Philippines immigration legal process! You both can probably get away with what you and your wife are purpose on doing! We gave you all the legal info/personal experiences and it's up to you whether you both abide by them or not!
IMHO, non disclosure of all the facts or lying on any government application forms can get one into trouble eventually!   
I will not post any further on this topic! I've posted enough already on this issue! Anyway, anyone can do their own research concerning Philippines immigration matters! As they say in the Philippines. "It's up to you"!
I'll let others on here to put in their 2 cents worth! 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 12:06:47 PM by Art, "Just a re(tired) Fil-Am" »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2014, 01:12:07 PM »
IMHO, non disclosure of all the facts or lying on any government application forms can get one into trouble eventually!   

I absolutely agree with that. I’ve seen a completely innocent misrepresentation that anyone would agree was never meant to deceive cause years in court and a small fortune in attorney’s fees to straighten out.
You however are intentionally attempting to deceive.
I wouldn’t take the chance-  just my 2cents! 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 01:28:35 PM by hitekcountry »

Offline bigrod

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Re: Dual citizenship and reclaiming filipino citizenship
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2014, 01:24:28 PM »
Having just returned from being deported from the Philippines, if $500 and 14hrs to 2 days is to much of your time that is your choice.  Not having done anything illegal on my own part cost me over 9 mos of my time and 2M+ php.  Up to you.

Chuck
Life is  to short not to live it right the first time

 


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