Author Topic: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship  (Read 9979 times)

Offline hitekcountry

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Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« on: December 25, 2012, 04:24:44 PM »
Hello everyone, this is my first post. I’ve spent many hours over several weeks reading as much as I can on this web site trying to learn as much as I can. There’s a lot of great information here thanks to all that contribute and share what they know. I’ve learned a lot. Thank you all.

Background
My Father was Filipino born in the Philippines. He came to the US just before the depression and married my Mother an American at the start of the war (WWII). I was born (in the US) before the end of the war. My Father became a US citizen in the early 50s, I was about 6yrs old at the time. My Mother died in the 70s and my father went to the Philippines and married a Filipina and brought her back to the US. My Father died about 10 years ago.
I am now retired and living in Silicon Valley. All along I had as a general plan the Idea that I would stay in this area until the time I would retire then move somewhere else. “Somewhere else” was never defined.  Recently I’ve been seriously considering retiring to the Philippines and learned about Dual Citizenship. Being able to acquire Philippine citizenship would weigh heavily in favor of deciding to retire there. 
I called the SF office of the Philippine Consulate to ask the requirement for a child born in the US with a Filipino parent to obtain dual Citizenship.
 
Documents I would need:
  My birth certificate.—which I have and it states-Father-Philipino (sic)  Fathers Birthplace –Phillipine Islande (sic)
  My parents’ marriage certificate.
  My Fathers US citizenship papers—I assume to verify the date he became a US citizen was after I was born.

Situation is
The two items, my parents marriage certificate and my fathers citizenship papers I don’t have. My stepmother would be the person that would have them if they still exist. I don’t have any kind of working relationship with my stepmother. My sister more-or-less does. In the past we’ve (or she has) asked her for important documents and we’ve gotten some but not everything that we were looking for. There is no way to know how thorough the search was. She won’t let anyone else look and I suppose I wouldn’t either.
I would give my chances of getting these documents from her at maybe 20% at best.

My questions are:
What other options do I have?
Is it at all possible the Philippine Consulate would take my birth certificate and say “Ok you couldn’t find the other documents but this will be good enough”?
If that isn’t likely then where can I get the other two documents?
What American agency would have my father’s citizenship records?
Or would a Philippine agency have that?
What agency has marriage documents?
If I'm unable to find these two documents am I SOL?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 04:41:40 PM by hitekcountry »

Offline Steve & Myrlita

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2012, 05:13:08 PM »
Is it at all possible the Philippine Consulate would take my birth certificate and say “Ok you couldn’t find the other documents but this will be good enough”?
If that isn’t likely then where can I get the other two documents?
What American agency would have my father’s citizenship records?
Or would a Philippine agency have that?
What agency has marriage documents?
If I'm unable to find these two documents am I SOL?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
You might be able to obtain those documents from the National Statistics Office (NSO). Being the son of a Philippine Citizen, you should be able to obtain them. God Bless....

Thank you...God Bless...
Bro Steve & Sis Myrlita
Bacolod City, PH

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 06:05:11 PM »
First all, welcome hitekcountry to the forum! As to the initial requirement to become a dual citizen one would have to have been born in the Philippines and have at one time been a Filipino citizen and or had a Filipino passport previously! So, in your case you were born in the U.S., never been a former Filipino citizen and that alone would deny you any hopes of qualifying for dual citizenship under the RA 9225 even though both or one of your parents were Filipino citizens. So in actuality and the key words are "FORMER FILIPINO CITIZEN", which you are not and never been due to your actual birth in America.
I even know of U.S. citizens who are Filipinos by birth and they can't even qualify for dual citizenship under RA 9225, because they couldn't show proof of previously being a former Filipino citizen, even though they have birth certificates showing that they were born in the Philippines, also when the day they were born, they were immediately registered with the U.S. Embassy and also left the Philippines using a U.S. passport and not a Filipino passport, meaning they never been a Filipino citizen and or also due to the Jus sanguinis rule which is a "principle of nationality law", so technically you are not a Fil/Am by definition, because you are a full pledge American, because of your actual birth in the U.S.. even with a Filipino nationality by blood relations!   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

Anyway, you can always go with the "Balikbayan Program", 13a Permanent Resident Visa if married to a Filipino spouse or which in your case may be the only option, is the (SRRV) Special Resident Retiree's Visa for retired single individuals over 35 if you are considering to retire in the Philippines for a long period of time, also it would be useless if one continuously leaves the Philippines under those types of visas for what ever the reasons, because these types of visas do have restrictions and expiration dates, but can be renewed. You can check them out and read for yourself if these types of visas are for you and may help you to determine if they fit your needs while residing in the Philippines for retirement purposes for the long haul!
When was the last time you were in the Philippines? Are you more American than Filipino of which I mean, do you speak the Filipino language and know of the culture and customs? 

BTW, I grew up in Northern and Southern California and lived in Silicon Valley and graduated from Sunnyvale High School in 1966 before I joined the Air Force in 1967. I was born in the Philippines and my wife and I have been retired in Philippines since 1998. I'm not yet a dual citizen, only my wife is since 2 yrs ago, but I do plan on applying for my dual citizenship maybe next year in San Francisco since it's much faster doing it there!     
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 11:58:28 PM by Art2ro »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 12:13:22 AM »
Hitekcountry, Welcome to the group! 

The USCIS has a fee-based geneology service which offers geneology records of Naturalized Citizens (C-files) from September 27, 1906 to April 1, 1956.  It appears that your father's records would be from this era.
 
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=d21f3711ca5ca110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=d21f3711ca5ca110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD

They suggest, and I agree, that you should first read the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs), form instructions, and other information on their website before sending any money.
If this works, then you would have copies or at least a record of your father's naturalization. 

Do you know exactly where your father and mother were married?  If so, then you could check with the county clerk of the county in which they were married to get copies of their marriage certificate.

I hope you find everything you need.  Stay in contact with us and we'll do all we can to assist you.

Merry Christmas!   :)

Jack Bishop - "Gray Wolf"
Forum Administrator


Louisville, KY USA

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 01:28:41 AM »
hitekcountry,

Even if you did find all the documents you are seeking, your intentions to acquire dual citizenship are slim to none as I mentioned in my OP, but don't let that deter your decision in considering retiring in the Philippines, because you do have other options!
If you haven't been to Philippines, just take a few vacations here and see how you like it before making any final decisions! We all on this forum will help and guide you the way!
Good luck with your quest in defining where that "somewhere else will be"!

Art
Formerly from
Silicon Valley, Ca.
Now, Sta Rosa,
Laguna PH
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 02:43:03 PM by Art2ro »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 02:19:54 AM »
Hitek,

You didn't mention in your original post, but are you married? 

There are several options available to you for becoming a permanent resident of the Philippines, as well as an option to live there on a "temporary" basis.  We can walk you through all of these, with a bit more info from you.

By the way, which part of the Philippines did your father come from?
Louisville, KY USA

Offline meylou

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 04:07:54 AM »
Happy Holidiays, hitekcountry.  Welcome to the forum.

You can obtain a copy of your father's birth certificate by applying online through the NSO website.
     https://www.ecensus.com.ph/Default.aspx

The Bureau of Immigration site also lists the requirements/checklist to qualify for dual citizenship.
     http://www.immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=25&Itemid=99

I am afraid Art2ro is right. You need to have been born in the Philippines to qualify.  :(
Do not be discouraged though. You have other options available to you so you could retire in the Phils.
Let the expats here help you.
Good luck.

What we think we become... Buddha
:)

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 05:19:32 AM »
Maybe that's the loop hole that hitekcountry is looking for which sounds correct, but I believe with one stipulation, that the child or teen before his 18th birthday, must decide whether to become a Filipino or an American Citizen or loose that option with the U.S. Embassy and will be a Filipino Citizen by default beyond his/her 18th birthday or he/she can later legally immigrate to the U.S. petitioned by an immediate family in the U.S., but that's neither here nor there in his situation! So what's his solution since he's already in his late 60s?     

Under RA 9225, he does not qualify, because this RA 9225 only pertains to "Former Filipino Citizens", which means only those born in the Philippines and were actually Filipino Citizens immigration status wise at the time, because if one is registered by the U.S. Citizen parent with the U.S. Embassy at birth, he/she maybe affected by the Jus sanguinis rule which is a "principle of nationality law". I'm not too familiar with this Jus sanguinis rule, but it could affect one's citizenship status and deny qualifying under the RA 9225, but then again this does not apply to hitekcountry since he was born in the U.S.! Running out of options here!
Only option I can see is a Non-Quota immigrant Visa, SRRV Program, just on a plain American tourist Visa with Visa Extensions up to 24 months or get married to a Filipina and go with a 13a Visa or use the "Balikbayan Program", but his Filipina spouse would need a U.S. passport, green card or has a Philippine passport with multiple visas and never been to the U.S.! :) So, what else is there left?       
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 09:10:47 AM by Art2ro »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 09:50:39 AM »
I appreciate everyone’s responses. Thanks

I ran into someone at the family Christmas get-together that is best able to deal with my step mother and has offered to help.

My Father was Ilocano, he came from an area close to Narvacan in the Ilocos sur Region of Northern Luzon Island. He spoke Ilocano, English, and Spanish.

I’m not married, I’ve been divorced for about 10yrs and not interested in making any effort to change that situation.
 
Looks like I have a bit of research work to do.

“No sáan nga makaammó nga nangtaliáw ti naggapuánna, saán a makadánon ti papanánna”

I’ll let everyone know what I come up with.
Again Thanks.

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 03:31:21 PM »
Hitekcountry,

Please translate, because your Ilocano is better than my Tagalog and so that everyone knows what the phrase means!
“No sáan nga makaammó nga nangtaliáw ti naggapuánna, saán a makadánon ti papanánna”
Well, if you are fluent speaking Ilocano, you may get by pretty well living in the Philippines like I do, but I only know how to speak Tagalog which took me years to learn all over again!   
Anyway, good luck with your research!

Art
the other guy from
Silicon Valley, Ca.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 03:36:38 PM by Art2ro »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2012, 04:35:40 PM »
“No sáan nga makaammó nga nangtaliáw ti naggapuánna, saán a makadánon ti papanánna”

“He who does not look back to his origins will not reach his destination.”

Oh no I don’t speak Ilocano.  Just something I came across on the internet that seemed appropriate. For me it has multiple levels of meaning.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 04:42:48 PM by hitekcountry »

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 11:10:38 PM »
May I suggest that you look to the Ilocos region for a place to visit?  With your Ilocano background, I think you'll find it very comfortable.
I love it there!  With any luck at all, we'll be there again next year looking for a place to rent while we look for houses and property for sale.

Never consider yourself SOL!  There is always a way, if you have the will to do what is necessary.  Putting aside becoming a Philippine citizen, you still have some options that will allow you to live in the Philippines. 

A 9a tourist visa will allow you to live there for up to 16 months to 2 years at a time.  You are required to leave the country after that time, but can return the next day and start the 9a visa process all over again.  Many people I know will go to Hong Kong, Singapore or Malaysia for a "vacation" and return again to their "home" in the Philippines.  Some have done this for many years.

If you have a bit of money you can invest then you can avail yourself of the SRRV.  For as little as $10,000 you can get the SRRV Classic.  For all the info on the Special Resident Retiree Visa go to the PRV website at:

http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/srrv_program?page=1



Louisville, KY USA

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 05:14:08 AM »
“May I suggest that you look to the Ilocos region for a place to visit?”

Grey wolf
  Yes that is the area I’m interested in mainly because there are many family connections to that area. But, I do also have family in Manila.

As a matter of fact my Sister called me yesterday to tell me she had just talked to a “cousin” (something to do with facebook) here in the bay area that is more closely related to another “cousin” that retired from the US and is now living in Narvacan. He owns several houses in the area and one of them is in San Esteban an area I’m somewhat interested in. I’m told that when I have an idea of when I’m ready to visit there that they will put me in contact with him.

I contacted USCIS, filled out and sent in (e-mail) the forms, so we’ll see how that goes. I’m wondering how long they take, somewhere I saw mention 4-5 weeks. Does that sound right?

I agree that RA 9225 doesn’t apply to me. What I’m relying on is this statement I took directly from the Philippine Conciliate web page:

Holding more than one citizenship is possible for Filipinos especially when conflict of nationality
laws is concerned. For example, a child born in the United States of America of Filipino parents is
an American citizen under US law and a Filipino citizen under Philippine law. This is because natural
American citizenship is derived from the territory in which the person was born while Philippine
citizenship is derived from the parents
’ citizenship.


The way I understand this only one parent need be Filipino.

Now if there is some complication due to length of time I don’t know. One way or another I’m sure I’ll find out.

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 06:16:55 AM »
Please update us when you hear back from USCIS.  It will help us help others who may find themselves in the same or similar situation.  Good luck!   :)
Louisville, KY USA

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Where to get Document needed for Dual Citizenship
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 07:26:53 AM »
Grey wolf

Will Do!

"Ti ubet ko ay Americano, ngem to pusok ket Ilocano!"  Well then I think that makes us "Cousins"  ;) 8)

 


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