Author Topic: Labour and wages.  (Read 3678 times)

Offline iamjames

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Labour and wages.
« on: September 23, 2013, 01:33:17 AM »
I think the legal minimum wage here is about 11,000PHP. I have met two people now who work for less than 4000 per month. They said they were told in their interview that if they complained about or reported that wage they would be blacklisted and never get a job anywhere! Injustice like that is sickening but it is not an area where any expat should dare interfere. Martyrs for the cause are by implication dead and I want a few more years here! 

Offline suzukig1

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 08:20:37 AM »
The legal minimum wage for most of the Phl is about P6,500.  Many workers don't actually qualify for minimum wage.  There's a good chance that the two people you met were lying to you about something.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 05:52:36 PM by suzukig1 »

Offline iamjames

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 11:50:11 AM »
I just checked those figures Suz. The 11,000PHP minimum refers to the NCR or National Capital region. I didn't realise there were such administrative differences in the country. The other regions seem to average 250PHP minimum wage per day whereas the NCR is about 426. There are exceptions - as in the case of domestic helpers (cleaners, drivers etc.).  Your figure is correct outside of the NCR.
In the case of the workers I mentioned it is 165 per day - but they get their food for free. I had actually spoken to the boss and 'this is the way it is done'. But -as you said - the picture is not as bad as I originally thought. And I was wondering why staff in restaurants were fighting to serve me (literally in one case) when I give tips of 50 - 70 pesos. In Ireland or the US they might suggest you keep such a tip as you might need it!
All my life my policy has been 'the labourer is worthy of his hire'. If the service is worth x amount to me in my country then it is also x amount wherever I go. I think I will modify that in future as it would cause problems for everyone.

Offline suzukig1

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 06:13:21 PM »
I agree with your sentiment that people arenít paid a living wage in the Phl.  In the NCR the minimum wage is almost twice as high as most other places in the Phl.  However, many workers donít get paid the minimum wage in the NCR.  Employers are not required to pay the minimum wage to new hires during their probationary work period; usually 5 Ė 6 months.  In the NCR many workers get hired for their probationary period and then get laid off.  Some get re-hired 3 months later and start a new probationary period.

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 07:08:18 PM »
Isn't that so so sad working for pennies on the dollar or centavos of the one peso! :'(
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline FLYBOYRD49

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 08:52:09 PM »
Here is a sad story about wages, my brother in law is a private driver for a wealthy man in Cebu, his monthly wage is 5000php per month, that is about $120. This includes is room and board, from this wage he feeds his wife and 3 children and pays his rent of 1500php.

Offline John Edwards

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 12:05:43 AM »
5000p and room and board for a family of 5 is not as bad as most people get. My girlfriend works 9 hours a day 6 days a week and she makes 90p a day. She has a child of her own to raise and she tries to raise a nephew and 2 nieces as well.
There are a lot of people working in her town for 100p a day. She don't live in Manila. 

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 01:03:18 AM »
When I met Gloria 14 years ago she was working as Executive Secretary to the owner of a plastics manufacturing corporation.  She made what was considered pretty good money at the time.  Her salary was roughly $200 a month.  She gave half to her parents.  She lived in a ladies dormitory (rooming house) in the Sampaloc section of Manila where she paid $25 monthly rent.  This left her with $75 per month for food, clothing, transportation and personal needs. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 01:05:03 AM by Gray Wolf »
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline FLYBOYRD49

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 03:47:24 AM »
John...the room and board was for him only, he still has to pay the rent for his family in a boarding house. All in all its very sad, personally I feel ALL Americans should be made to visit a 3rd world country, this would help them to realize just how fortunate have it here in the US.

Offline Big Jim

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 05:38:05 AM »
Here is a sad story about wages, my brother in law is a private driver for a wealthy man in Cebu, his monthly wage is 5000php per month, that is about $120. This includes is room and board, from this wage he feeds his wife and 3 children and pays his rent of 1500php.
It is sad because he has a family.
 
For a single man, it is a VERY good deal. Rent, food and electric paid and still P5000 left over to spend on himself.
I used to wonder what it would be like to read other people's minds.

Then I got a facebook account and now I am over it.

Offline Big Jim

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 05:40:39 AM »
Here is the minimum wage by region. Which I see is completely up to date as it has the latest rates for NCR.
 
http://www.nwpc.dole.gov.ph/rtwpb.html
I used to wonder what it would be like to read other people's minds.

Then I got a facebook account and now I am over it.

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2013, 08:57:51 AM »
I was wondering how this applies to a driver or helper that is on call 24hrs a day. More specifically take the case where we had a driver that was with us throughout our trip. He traveled with us obviously and was essentially on call 24hrs a day. We paid for all his food and lodging in addition to his pay of 500p a day.

So I read the law and this seems to be the pertinent section.

Section 2 coverage:

(Paragraph 2)
Excluded in this wage order are household or domestic helpers; persons employed in the person service of another including family drivers; and workers and employees of registered Barangay Micro Business Enterprises (BMBE) with certificates of authority pursuant to Republic Act 9178.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 09:01:20 AM by hitekcountry »

Offline Metz

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 08:21:21 AM »
Pesos and dollars are not really the same.  Earn pesos yourself and you will soon see its the exchange is artificially rigged to keep things this way. 

That said, I have had employees at 350 pesos a day and they were not even worth that much.  The labor pool here is a 1000km wide and 1mm deep.  Skilled workers are few and far between.  People who show up to work on time, less so. 

I can find lots of broom pushers, but it took me a year to find someone who could do CAD modeling and I have yet to find a CNC operator. I have fired many welders.  Have yet to find someone who can stick weld as good as the average sophomore American high school weld shop class student.

Offline JoeLP

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 10:05:40 AM »
Pesos and dollars are not really the same.  Earn pesos yourself and you will soon see its the exchange is artificially rigged to keep things this way. 

That said, I have had employees at 350 pesos a day and they were not even worth that much.  The labor pool here is a 1000km wide and 1mm deep.  Skilled workers are few and far between.  People who show up to work on time, less so. 

I can find lots of broom pushers, but it took me a year to find someone who could do CAD modeling and I have yet to find a CNC operator. I have fired many welders.  Have yet to find someone who can stick weld as good as the average sophomore American high school weld shop class student.

Broom pushers are hard to find.  Tina manages the public market here.  She's in charge of the "contract workers".  The collectors, sweepers, and security.  The collectors show up everyday and mostly on time, as do the security.   The sweepers, just about each and every one shows up late, and then do a very crappy job.  And the one who is in charge of sweeping/mopping the "wet" section doesn't do a damn thing.  The current mayor gave him the perm. status when he first became mayor during his first 9 year stay in office over 12 years ago.  He then retired, couldn't stand it, and came back on contract until about a year to go in the previous mayor's term. 
There is a older local gent that did that as a permenant job for most his life, he's in his early 70's now.  He still comes to the office at least twice a week wanting that job back and Tina wishes she could give it to him, but the current wet section sweeper is with work due to political ties to a upper level city politician. 
Basically, the only man that has no problem mopping and sweeping the wet section can't do it because of politics, and now the wet section is full of mud on large sections of it, and Tina gets the heat.  The first time the heat came she said it was because the person hired on contract to do it refuses.  Her immediate supervisor said turn in the paperwork to have him removed.  Soon as he saw the name, he told her he'll try and explain the situation to his superiors. 
I thought entitlement was primarily a problem in the USA, but wow, I see it here and it surprises me, but I'm starting to understand it.
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Offline John Edwards

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Re: Labour and wages.
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 11:21:19 PM »
Don't know where you are Metz but my girl's father is a welder and is retired but he gets calls from companies in Cebu City on the other side of the island to come over and do projects for them. So I am assuming he is pretty good.

I read the post about the pay scales and it don't mention all job descriptions. My girl used to work in a restaurant for 90 pesos a day. For that, she cooked or cleaned or waited tables or anything else her boss asked her to do. She quit several times because she has a son at home and when school is out she stays home with him, to take care of him when he was smaller, and now that he is 10 she needs to keep him out of mischief. The boss is always after her to come back before she is ready too. She has quit again now, to get our house ready for me and she has no plans to ever go back. The boss is already calling her after one week.

Here in the US I worked in a large machine shop running CNC machines. I can understand the frustration of trying to find workers that can learn to run them. They hired many workers and it was my job to train them. About one out of 10 had the aptitude to learn the controls and even less to learn that "good enough" didn't work in an environment that required tolerances of .0005 in placement and .0008 in size.

A lot of US companies that moved their operations over seas have learned to their chagrin that not all peoples can learn to do technical work. There are Asians that can do the job but you have to weed them out, just like here in the US. And there are a lot of people in every country that wouldn't work in a pie factory tasting pies for a living.