Author Topic: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.  (Read 9503 times)

Offline JD

  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« on: March 06, 2015, 11:56:31 AM »
We're being quoted a price for installation of a pressure tank and pump with our house construction n Davao. Water is supplied via HDPE pipe from the meter a short way down the road. As far as I can gauge the use from being present when the single tap is used by the crew currently building our perimeter wall, the pressure seems good in the afternoon but low in the morning. This is the same with our rental house in a nearby subdivision.

I have no experience with water tanks and pumps, only some experience with dry fire sprinkler systems that use air compressors to keep the pipes pressurized. With those systems, the compressor may turn on anywhere from a couple of times a day to a couple of times an hour, depending on the airtightness of the system.

We're being told to get the tank and pump but to install a diverter to use during the times when pressure is good. Do this, we're told, to avoid an outrageous electric bill from the pump turning on time after time all day.

I'd really hate to find out that once the water is delivered to all the taps in our home, the city pressure stinks and have to run the pump all day. Alternately, does anyone know, are those centrifugal pumps really that expensive to run?

Thanks for any help.


JD

Offline coleman2347

  • ole jarhead, Tacloban City, Leyte
  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,160
  • Retired Marine, Retired DOD
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 12:16:55 PM »
I think you notice the drop in the morning because most are cooking breakfast, showering before work etc. 
I have the same problem here...I have a pressure pump and it cures the problem most of the time.  This is what I would do....when you install the pump make sure the tank you use is of the bladder type...they are more expensive but keep the pump from cycling on and off...also install a storage tank of a size that would be equivalent of one days water usage, say from 100 to 150 gal.  they usually come with a automatic shut off similar to the one in your toilet  (float shut off valve).  Install the pump to pump from the storage tank not the main water system.  Let street pressure fill the storage tank which it will when there is pressure and the tank is not full.  This will eliminate the pump coming on excessively.  I had a similar system in my old apartment and it worked great.  When I build my permanent house later this year I will install a similar system.  Hope this helps some, Im sure others here have had the same problem and will chime in...
The only thing worse than wanting to do it is not doing it

Offline M.C.A.

  • Sr Member +
  • Sr Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 04:43:31 PM »
We're being quoted a price for installation of a pressure tank and pump with our house construction n Davao. Water is supplied via HDPE pipe from the meter a short way down the road. As far as I can gauge the use from being present when the single tap is used by the crew currently building our perimeter wall, the pressure seems good in the afternoon but low in the morning. This is the same with our rental house in a nearby subdivision.

I have no experience with water tanks and pumps, only some experience with dry fire sprinkler systems that use air compressors to keep the pipes pressurized. With those systems, the compressor may turn on anywhere from a couple of times a day to a couple of times an hour, depending on the airtightness of the system.

We're being told to get the tank and pump but to install a diverter to use during the times when pressure is good. Do this, we're told, to avoid an outrageous electric bill from the pump turning on time after time all day.

I'd really hate to find out that once the water is delivered to all the taps in our home, the city pressure stinks and have to run the pump all day. Alternately, does anyone know, are those centrifugal pumps really that expensive to run?

Thanks for any help.


JD

The pump electrical cost isn't that bad, I don't run any city water to my house it's all from a water well and I also have a manual water pump house out back.  I dealt with horrible water pressure and no water pressure back in the middle 80's Subic bay and when the water did work it initially came out green. 

Family of 5 and I frequently water some herbs and plants.  I have one dirty kitchen and two full sized kitchens, 3 bathrooms, haven't used the Aircon much if at all and with the side by side fridge and Induction stove, dish washer my bill comes up to 4,000 peso's per month, add AC in the evening hours 4-5 hrs per night and the bill jumps from 5,000 -6000 peso's.      :o
My views would be from someone who lives out in the province close to in-laws on a pension.  Norwegian and French heritage.

Offline Frosty

  • Sr Member +
  • Sr Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 10:45:18 PM »
Coleman  set up is the way to go.
Also I see alot of tanks up on a towers, they use the pump to fill the tank then the tank drains into the house. you only gain about 2psi for every 10 feet of hight.
keep the tank on the ground and set the pump up after the storage tank to pressure up the house.
If there is good pressure during different times of the day you could put a tee in the incoming line to the tank and mybe use this for anything outside, it could be used to get water if you have no power to the pump.

Offline JD

  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2015, 09:21:21 PM »
Thanks, guys. It wasn't drawn in on the initial proposal but we got the blueprints from the architect and the storage tank was shown with the bladder tank and pump.

Now what I'm troubled by is the Rainwater Catchment System that seems to be required by law here in Davao on new construction. Or rather, making economical use of the water. We need 6 tanks for our roof and while I'm a fan of using "free" water, I wasn't anticipating having to save every drop that fell on my roof like this. I guess I'm looking at another pump to ramp up the pressure for gardening and cleaning purposes.

It keeps going, doesn't it?  :)



JD

Offline BudM

  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,954
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 10:56:05 PM »
I have a tank, which when check the dimensions, I think comes out to about 400 gallons, that I was going to have removed.  After a year and finding out that the pressure does get low at certain times, I have changed my mind and am going with the main to tank to house route permanently.  Sometimes the pressure on the second floor gets a little low even though the tank is higher so I have been thinking about getting a pressure pump.  Then again, I do not have to take a shower any certain time of day as long as I don't stink too bad.
Whatever floats your boat.

Offline cvgtpc1

  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 11:15:55 PM »
Now what I'm troubled by is the Rainwater Catchment System that seems to be required by law here in Davao on new construction. Or rather, making economical use of the water. We need 6 tanks for our roof and while I'm a fan of using "free" water, I wasn't anticipating having to save every drop that fell on my roof like this. I guess I'm looking at another pump to ramp up the pressure for gardening and cleaning purposes.

It keeps going, doesn't it?  :)

So much for the Philippines being some lawless place where anything goes, at least in your case!  lol

Offline hitekcountry

  • Sr Member +
  • Sr Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2015, 05:05:19 AM »
I guess I have way too much time on my hands. I drew up what Coleman2347 is describing; sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.


Offline JD

  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2015, 12:45:57 PM »
That's really cool, hitek. We'll have to add the pump bypass to the plans, I think. I'm still waiting on the PDF files of the blueprints to study a bit more. We had a lot of questions and were running around with the plans so I didn't get much time to eyeball them before we had to give the copy back for the city to stamp.

I know the architect is calling for an 1800 liter/475 gallon storage tank. I guess with the way they don't serve much notice when the water is shut off for service, a bigger tank is better.


JD

Offline coleman2347

  • ole jarhead, Tacloban City, Leyte
  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,160
  • Retired Marine, Retired DOD
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2015, 02:33:06 PM »
I guess I have way too much time on my hands. I drew up what Coleman2347 is describing; sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.



thats excellent
The only thing worse than wanting to do it is not doing it

Offline Frosty

  • Sr Member +
  • Sr Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2015, 08:26:13 AM »
I guess I have way too much time on my hands. I drew up what Coleman2347 is describing; sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.

 Looks good. You might add at least 2 valves, 1 on the outlet on the tank and 1 on the supply line from the street. that way you can shut them down if you need to make any repairs.

Offline hitekcountry

  • Sr Member +
  • Sr Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2015, 10:20:53 AM »
I guess I have way too much time on my hands. I drew up what Coleman2347 is describing; sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.

 Looks good. You might add at least 2 valves, 1 on the outlet on the tank and 1 on the supply line from the street. that way you can shut them down if you need to make any repairs.

Actually I had done that, I just hadn't got around to posting it.

Plus I added arrows to show the different paths the water would follow in the different conditions.

A -- is the path supplying the house when the "street" pressure is adequate. Nothing is moving in line B and the pressure pump is OFF
B -- is the path supplying the house when the street pressure is too low and the pump is running supplying water from the storage tank. The "House Pressure now higher than the street pressure cannot flow back through line A because of the one way valve in line A.

C -- is the path the water from the street will follow to refill the storage tank.


 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 10:41:28 AM by hitekcountry »

Offline coleman2347

  • ole jarhead, Tacloban City, Leyte
  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,160
  • Retired Marine, Retired DOD
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2015, 10:31:25 AM »
I guess I have way too much time on my hands. I drew up what Coleman2347 is describing; sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.

 Looks good. You might add at least 2 valves, 1 on the outlet on the tank and 1 on the supply line from the street. that way you can shut them down if you need to make any repairs.

Actually I had done that, I just hadn't got around to posting it.

Plus I added arrows to show the different paths the water would follow in the different conditions.

A -- is the path supplying the house when the "street" pressure is adequate. Nothing is moving in line B and the pressure pump is OFF
B -- is the path supplying the house when the street pressure is too low and the pump is running supplying water from the storage tank. The "House Pressure now higher than the street pressure cannot flow back through line A because of the one way valve in line A.

C -- is the path the water from the street will follow to refill the storage tank.


 

Thats exactly what I am doing, the only exception will be a valved suction line from the deep well (if I can get a good deep well) to give me a dual option with the water source.  I had the same here (my present house) but was pulling up too much sand...so I dont use it.  Hopefully in the new place I can cure that problem...
The only thing worse than wanting to do it is not doing it

Offline cvgtpc1

  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2015, 02:06:08 PM »
Are there any companies one can get that will honestly do this work for someone who doesn't know better for what it should cost?  That's one of my big pet peeves of the PI, there has to be some professional companies there somewhere.

Offline JD

  • Sr Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Pressure tanks, water pumps and thou.
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2015, 05:15:30 PM »
Are there any companies one can get that will honestly do this work for someone who doesn't know better for what it should cost?  That's one of my big pet peeves of the PI, there has to be some professional companies there somewhere.

I would think that a competent plumber would be able to do this. Finding a real plumber will still be a challenge, though.


JD

 


bisaya, cebuano, cebuano lessons, bisaya lessons
Romantic Tagalog