4 weeks in the Phils coming to a close

[UNGGOY]

The Dental office we use is the finest spot I've ever seen, my wife and kids have been there several times and I've never seen dental chairs with TV's playing movies before.  The waiting room is marbeled floors, huge exported furniture, two desk top computers with internet access, massage chair like in the malls only free, free drinks, cookies, snacks and cable TV.

The Dental work is also amazing the cost is very low.

I am always surprised with "low cost" medical and dental in the Philippines. Many of us come from 1st world nations with free medical and dental. Can't get cheaper than free.

I have NEVER seen a dental clinic like that in the Philippines! You are usually lucky to get a lawn chair instead of a stool. I don't think I have seen ANY place in the Philippines like that...

Wait, your dentist gives you free cookies? Hmmm.... Good for business I guess?

[UNGGOY]

Only thing I would say is, AirBnB is expensive, and can be a scam. You can get a nice hotel for 6 quid. I do not see how 25 a night is cheap, or that hotels are more expensive. Next time look up what the locals call "apartelle" and you will have better luck.

Most places have free massage at work. But my wife does not want competition on her daily full body massages

You have to pay for dental in the UK? And the Brits are always making fun of our healthcare in the US. We have never had to pay for dental in America.

Great summary. Sounds like you had fun. And gave an honest report of good and bad. You rarely hear that. The Philippines is not paradise. it's a tropical, crazy, 3rd world nation, that can be fun.

[Hestecrefter]

I am always surprised with "low cost" medical and dental in the Philippines. Many of us come from 1st world nations with free medical and dental. Can't get cheaper than free.

I have NEVER seen a dental clinic like that in the Philippines! You are usually lucky to get a lawn chair instead of a stool. I don't think I have seen ANY place in the Philippines like that...

Wait, your dentist gives you free cookies? Hmmm.... Good for business I guess?

I accept what M.C.A. says as accurate. 

More than 20 years ago, maybe 1996, I was in Tuguegarao with my girl when she developed a toothache.  Her family lived out of town aways, but knew of a dental clinic in town. 

So we drove to this location in "Centro" and parked outside a row of conjoined rickety old wooden structures and took the stairs up one flight.  Upon opening the door I expected to see a dental "office" perhaps resembling what one would find in the US or Canada circa 1900.  Some rusty pliers for pulling teeth, hung on the wall, etc.  Instead we were met by a young Filipina dentist and premises and equipment just as modern as one would expect abroad.  She spoke perfect English, said she had trained in New Jersey, and had come home to practise.  The bill for a filling was about $7.

I was shy to ask, so I did not, but I have ever since wondered how it was that that dentist was able to afford the equipment she had, while charging almost nothing.  Never mind make a profit.   

Over the years since then, I have encountered a few other dental offices not much different.  One of the two I have in mind is also in Tuguegarao, the other in Quezon City very close to where we lived there.  I accompanied my wife there twice.  Not quite as elegant and thoroughly appointed as that of which M.C.A. speaks, but very clean, neat and welcoming facilities with modern equipment and competent staff.  Perhaps, Unggoy, you can share you experience of where the lawn chair dentists are situate, so others here can avoid them.

[UNGGOY]

We live like the "locals" and we always have toilet paper etc..   Many times when I hear "locals" on here I feel it is just referring to the "poor".  Millions of filipinos, who would consider themselves locals, can afford toilet paper etc.   I am with you Lee, I would not move here to live the life of poverty, but to each his own.

Most locals ARE poor compared to Western standards.

I am American and have one of the highest salaries in the country.

I have water for 3 hours a day. We sleep in one room on the floor. We only have one room. My toilet is in the kitchen, which is on the porch. It does not flush. We have 1 fan. We eat fish and rich every day. If we are lucky. There have been times we can only afford salt as our ulam. We have no fridge, aircon, clothes washer machine, TV, that sort of thing.

One of the benefits of using water on your bum, not only is it cleaner in a hot and sweaty climate, but there is no toilet paper in the trash. When you wipe your bum, you have to put it in a plastic bag and cook it in your windows in the hot sun for several days, until the garbage truck comes. That has to be unbearable stinky!

[UNGGOY]

It should come as no surprise that there are good dentists in the Philippines.  My previous dentist for years back in the US was a Filipina.  Well, for that matter, my regular doctor was a Filipino.  My current dentist is also a Filipina.  I think the ones going to the US and other so called western nations are teaching a few of those doctors and dentists a thing or two about dentistry and the medical field.

What? I'm sorry, but doctors and dentists from the Philippines either graduated from Recto University, or have the equivalent of a high school diploma.

I do not mean that as offensive, but it is the truth.

[Hestecrefter]

Most locals ARE poor compared to Western standards.

I am American and have one of the highest salaries in the country.

I have water for 3 hours a day. We sleep in one room on the floor. We only have one room. My toilet is in the kitchen, which is on the porch. It does not flush. We have 1 fan. We eat fish and rich every day. If we are lucky. There have been times we can only afford salt as our ulam. We have no fridge, aircon, clothes washer machine, TV, that sort of thing.

One of the benefits of using water on your bum, not only is it cleaner in a hot and sweaty climate, but there is no toilet paper in the trash. When you wipe your bum, you have to put it in a plastic bag and cook it in your windows in the hot sun for several days, until the garbage truck comes. That has to be unbearable stinky!

I'll take it you are an American, as you say, and you work on salary in the Phils (presumably you have some kind of legal ability to do so) AND you command one of the highest salaries in the country.  Yet the standard of living you describe is that of a squatter or a pauper.  There must be something I have misunderstood. 

I have been in plenty of homes of "locals" at various places in the Phils, folks with somewhat ordinary jobs, paying in the range of P20,000/mo.  They live modestly, but their toilets flush, they do not cook used toilet paper in their windows (now I have heard everything).  These folks all bring in far less than the highest salary in the country, but they do okay.  Again, there is probably an explanation for the apparent (perhaps to me only) non sequitur in your post.

On a somewhat different (but related) note, in the Expat Life/Terrorism thread you commented:

And you can not avoid crime in the Philippines by "not acting stupid". I am not a visitor. I am an Immigrant. One notch below Citizen. I am not a foreigner. I speak several Filipino languages. I have a wife and children. I do not drink or do drugs. Does not stop people from putting a gun to my head when I go out, because I am European.

So, in one post, you are American, in another, European.  A combo, perhaps?  Just curious.

[UNGGOY]

As mentioned earlier in this thread...

Part 2 - Thoughts on retirement

Our recent four week trip to Philippines was primarily a chance for me to see a bit more of the Philippines, warts and all. But the trip also had a secondary purpose - help answer a question that I'd been wrestling with for quite a while - could I retire there?

The Dream

1) Cost

Philippines is cheaper than the UK, therefore any pension would go further, and I could perhaps retire a lot sooner than if I wanted to retire in the UK.

2) Change

A chance to do something different and have a different way of life.

3) Climate

Phils is a lot warmer than UK.

4) Outdoor activities/natural beauty

The islands can be very beautiful with clear seas, coral reefs, and white beaches. Phils is a paradise for divers and snorkelers.

5) Travel

The Philippines is a fantastic base from which to explore South East Asia.

The Reality

1) Pollution

I didn't seem to be able to get away from breathing in diesel and petrol fumes. Pollution in Manila is a nightmare. The smog hangs over the city. Very unhealthy. There is a lot of pollution out on the islands, mainly from scooters, trucks, cars and trikes.

2) Noise

You also can't seem to get away from noise. There always seems to be something: loud music, dogs, karaoke, motorbikes, trikes.

3) Climate

While the climate is Philippines can be great (think clear blue skies) there can be a dark side to it - specifically typhoons. I have been in a typhoon (Basyang) and it was not a pleasant experience.

4) Food

It's weird, but for a country where food is high on everyone's agenda, I found the food generally to be not very good. I think I would most likely end up buying ingredients in the supermarket and then preparing and cooking my own food. This is in stark contrast to Thailand where eating out is one of the notable pleasures of the place. While in the city you can find decent food by a process of trial and error, it is harder to find decent places to eat in the provinces. There were many times when I simply went hungry because the food just wasn't edible (think reheated, crawling with flies, prepared in extremely unhygienic conditions). I lost nearly a stone in 4 weeks (probably a good thing!). A side note on hygiene - even in the posher malls of Manila I saw a lot of filipinos using the loo (1 and 2) and not washing their hands! Let's hope they don't work in restaurants.

5) What to do with yourself?

In the cities there are many things to do beyond the ivory tower of the apartment block. But you will have to contend with hellish traffic and pollution to get anywhere. When I couldn't bring myself to face the traffic/pollution I would gravitate towards the apartment pool swim and then read. This is wonderful initially but gets boring after the first week.

Out on the islands it is perhaps less challenging to get around, but the flip side of this is on the islands there's far less to do than in the city. Once you've done the notable sights the urge to take a dip in yet another hot spring or snorkel yet another pristine coral reef just doesn't inspire!

It's no secret that some expats who move to Phils end up couch potatoes and/or alcoholics. Believe me I totally understand that. When you run out of things to do, or the hassle of dealing with city traffic doesn't feel worth it any more, it can be very tempting to purchase a big TV, a cable package, a six pack, and then just veg out in front of the telly.

6) Family and friends

It's funny how many expats in Philippines will avoid their wife's family due to the constant requests for financial support. They will then park themselves off in an area far away. While this reduces financial requests it can result in isolation.

Expats can be quite stand-offish in my experience and they sometimes have good reason for this. Often expats will isolate themselves deliberately due to the aforementioned financial requests, but also because they fear scams perpetrated by locals or even expats.

I must admit our forays "into town" resulted in reactions ranging from the harmless (staring) to in-your-face begging for money - sometimes in an aggressive manner. All part of the "warts and all" experience - we had wanted to see the reality of life in Philippines.

I think it is possible to get too isolated in the Philippines - even in Manila. The thought of living in one of those apartment complexes into my 70s and 80s scares the hell out of me. While we do have friends in Manila I would miss the connection of the family and friends we have back in the UK. The option of a more remote location, such as Romblon or Camiguin, leads to the possibility of a quieter life, but with more isolation and less to do. I would probably end up in a house off the beaten track spending my days reading, watching TV and surfing the web - all things I can do back in the UK, or in fact from anywhere in the world.

Being away from family and friends can result in loneliness and isolation. The saving grace is that many filipinos are friendly and welcoming. No doubt new friends would be made, but in the back of your mind you are probably going to be wondering when the request for a "loan" is going to hit you. The motivations of filipinos, while often genuine and heart-felt can sometimes have a dark side, as we found on several occasions. For example, we got on really well with one individual, who we met while traveling. Then one evening the conversation started with a reference to Japanese gold and I realized straight away the clear intention was to get me to pay for this gold to be excavated! An obvious scam that I wasn't falling for. While one doesn't want to be overly paranoid, it always pays to err on the side of caution.

7) Costs

Finding good accommodation for low cost in key to affordable living in the Philippines. Especially in Manila costs for accommodation can quickly spiral. It takes some decent insider knowledge to find locations that are both affordable and decent. We had mixed results. AirBnB is unrivalled for finding great quality, affordable *short term* accommodation, but people on the ground with local knowledge are best placed for finding long term accommodation.

Generally Philippines is cheaper for most things. Services such as massage, dental treatment, medical care, pharmacies and so on are generally excellent and very affordable. For example, I paid £16 for a thorough dental clean. This would cost around £45 in UK. I paid £11 for a one hour Balinese massage and it's the best £11 I've ever spent. I'm not sure how much this would cost in UK, but possibly around £65.

Clothes, taxis, flights, food, drink and eating out are generally cheaper in Philippines, compared to UK.

Misc

Some aspects that I thought would be problematic, such as visas, turn out to be almost a non-entity. I think one of the reasons I thought this is because both Thailand and Malaysia put all kinds of visa obstacles in the way. The situation in the Philippines is a breath of fresh air in this respect - none of this having to leave the country every 90 days as in Thailand, or the huge financial hurdles of Malaysia's MM2H. In this respect Philippines has an attractive range of visa options such as the SRRV or simply  in-country extensions - long may they continue!

On the flip side things that I hadn't anticipated as a problem turned out to be somewhat problematic. For example, the pollution is a lot worse than I remember from 2011.

Another problem that I have mentioned elsewhere - those darn dogs. As someone who loves a long walk, I found the dogs roaming around made this quite problematic. Those dogs with puppies hidden somewhere nearby can be especially aggressive due to their protective instinct. I strongly advise everyone to have the rabies vaccination before traveling to Philippines.

Learning the lingo. As most people speak English this would appear to be a solved problem compared to somewhere like Thailand where it's much more necessary to be able to speak Thai - at least beyond the tourist traps. However, I've changed my mind on this one. I would be compelled to learn Tagalog at the very least (and possibly a dialect depending on where I located). I got tired of people talking about me and I could not understand what they were saying. As my partner is filipina locals would often (but not always) default to tagalog, and so I would not have a clue what was going on! I ran into this problem in Thailand back in 2003, and learned to at least understand the gist of what was being said, even though I could not speak the language. This proved incredibly useful such as the time (about a year before I met my current partner in 2006) I had a Thai g/f in UK, who used to quite happily chat on the phone in Thai to her boyfriend in Thailand while out with me! Of course I had never let on that I'd been to Thailand and could pick up the gist of what was being said!

Conclusions

The decision, for me, on whether to retire to Philippines or not has proved to be less clear cut than I had imagined it would be.

While Philippines checks a number of boxes (my pension would go further in Philippines than in UK) there are some deep questions to be answered. Would we end up isolated and lonely? Would we run out of things to do? Would the terrible traffic situation and pollution prove too much to bear and lead to living a "siege mentality" in an ivory tower? Would we always feel like a walking target for scams or other unwanted attention leading to paranoia?

I would like to say I came to a definite conclusion on the retirement question but I'm afraid I did not.

I have not written off retirement to the Philippines, but there are certain things I think would be necessary:

1) A base in a city. Pollution rules out Manila, but perhaps Ilo Ilo would be a better option. You have all the activities and liveliness of a city, without the dreadful pollution and traffic of Manila. I dare say Ilo Ilo will one day resemble Manila or Cebu in that respect, but it will take some years yet.

2) Escape to the islands. From your city base escape to the islands via a cheap flight, but do it in small doses. I think two or three days once every month or two would allow for a scuba/snorkel fix, a bit of chill time, a few beers and a short escape from the bustling city. I personally would not be tempted to try and live somewhere like Romblon or Camiguin full-time, although there are some expats happily doing it.

3) A clear source of income. This goes without saying. While I was thinking £500 a month would be enough, I am reassessing that and feel £1000 a month would be the minimum to allow a decent apartment in the city, dining out, travel and so on. Some are going to say that looks like a lot, and some will already spend twice that.

4) Transport. Getting around in a small city like Ilo Ilo is relatively easy with taxis and Grab. Out in the sticks renting a scooter is probably the way to go. Having used trikes extensively I have no wish to do so in the future! Obviously riding around on a scooter exposes you to some of the world's worst driving! Wear a helmet!

5) Part-time. I would probably only try to live in Philippines 3 months of the year, at least initially. This is partly because I believe living in the Philippines, and staying sane, really does require you to fully acclimatise and that takes time.

6) I would keep a base in UK. I'm not sure I would want to be in the Philippines in my 70s and 80s. Not because there's anything wrong with it, just I'm not sure it's what I would want. I do have a huge amount of respect for the wonderful way Philippines treats its senior citizens - the 20% off everything for over 65s is an incredible perk and shows how much respect for the elderly Philippines has. I would rather be out in the Philippines than a nursing home in the UK to be sure.

Final words

Philippines does have a lot going for it, but it's necessary to bear in mind it's still a developing country and plagued by a number of critical problems - massive inequality, pollution, and congestion just to highlight a few items. Visiting for a holiday is a far different proposition to living there. For many the attraction of a young filipina wife overrides all considerations, and I can understand that! My own situation is slightly different in that I met my filipina in UK and we've been living here together for 11 years now. So, will I retire to Philippines? - bottom line - not yet!

p.s. these are my own thoughts - standard disclaimer - your mileage may vary!
----

I quoted this long post to keep it alive and reference it. It is great.

Rarely do I see such a balanced, intelligent, heart-felt description of a personal experience.

People either talk about how the Philippines is basically the cheapest nation in the world, filled with perfect wives, zero crime, everyone lives on a tropical beach drinking free beer. Ha ha. Or the other side. People have been there and been disillusioned and hurt and have nothing but bad to say.

I feel really bad for foreigners that come to the Philippines, honest ones, that end up hurt in heart and body, and broke, or broken. They need to be warned. It is a rough, dangerous, 3rd word nation. But it can be fun. There is nothing more fun than going to work hanging on for dear life on a makeshift tricycle. That is actually how I coined the "more fun" catchphrase. But I promise, I did not intend it to become the national slogan! lol

There are only a few points I want to counter-point.

Cheaper
If you live like you do in the west, it is going to be more expensive. Basic things like electricity, furniture, and food that is not fish and rice, are really expensive. Housing is expensive to purchase, and you can't own land.

English
I always here that most Filipinos speak English. But I rarely meet people in the Philippines that can speak it at all. People that speak the best English? Girls, from online chat, and scammers, used to making money off foreigners. I rarely encounter English speakers. And I work in American call centers! Ha ha! But more English speakers in the Philippines than Thailand would be accurate.

That is it. Everything else was great. I really appreciate your honest assessment.

There are so many "expat" forums I have been on that I swear are run by DoT operatives pretending to be foreigners.

[UNGGOY]

I accept what M.C.A. says as accurate. 

More than 20 years ago, maybe 1996, I was in Tuguegarao with my girl when she developed a toothache.  Her family lived out of town aways, but knew of a dental clinic in town. 

So we drove to this location in "Centro" and parked outside a row of conjoined rickety old wooden structures and took the stairs up one flight.  Upon opening the door I expected to see a dental "office" perhaps resembling what one would find in the US or Canada circa 1900.  Some rusty pliers for pulling teeth, hung on the wall, etc.  Instead we were met by a young Filipina dentist and premises and equipment just as modern as one would expect abroad.  She spoke perfect English, said she had trained in New Jersey, and had come home to practise.  The bill for a filling was about $7.

I was shy to ask, so I did not, but I have ever since wondered how it was that that dentist was able to afford the equipment she had, while charging almost nothing.  Never mind make a profit.   

Over the years since then, I have encountered a few other dental offices not much different.  One of the two I have in mind is also in Tuguegarao, the other in Quezon City very close to where we lived there.  I accompanied my wife there twice.  Not quite as elegant and thoroughly appointed as that of which M.C.A. speaks, but very clean, neat and welcoming facilities with modern equipment and competent staff.  Perhaps, Unggoy, you can share you experience of where the lawn chair dentists are situate, so others here can avoid them.

I am not saying clean facilities do not exist at all. I am just saying, do not expect them in most places. Where are the lawn chair dentists? They are hard to find, since they are so expensive. Most places have a stool. They are dirty. Operate out of a tiny room on the street. Do not have a "waiting area", let alone free cookie and wifi. Ha ha!

Where?Just about any dental clinic you go to. Again, I am not saying there are no exceptions. But many dentists in the Philippines have never even been to school. They are "self-taught". Have you ever seen the inside of a hospital or clinic in the Philippines? There is a reason why everyone prays to God! They are living on faith! Dental clinics are even WORSE than those nightmares they call medical clinics!

I just think it is funny when people talk about how "great" and "modern" the Philippines is. most people do not even have running water in their homes. They drink the water off their roofs.

[UNGGOY]

I'll take it you are an American, as you say, and you work on salary in the Phils (presumably you have some kind of legal ability to do so) AND you command one of the highest salaries in the country.  Yet the standard of living you describe is that of a squatter or a pauper.  There must be something I have misunderstood. 

I have been in plenty of homes of "locals" at various places in the Phils, folks with somewhat ordinary jobs, paying in the range of P20,000/mo.  They live modestly, but their toilets flush, they do not cook used toilet paper in their windows (now I have heard everything).  These folks all bring in far less than the highest salary in the country, but they do okay.  Again, there is probably an explanation for the apparent (perhaps to me only) non sequitur in your post.

On a somewhat different (but related) note, in the Expat Life/Terrorism thread you commented:


So, in one post, you are American, in another, European.  A combo, perhaps?  Just curious.

Some kind of legal ability? I live in the Philippines. I can work the same as a local. With the exception of government jobs.

Standard of living as a squatter or pauper? I have never heard of paupers here, but skwater? No. I am pretty wealthy, as I said.

20,000 for an ordinary job? Where? Ha ha. Maybe 2 working, educated professionals. To put things in perspective for you, when I met my wife, she was working 20 hours a day, 7 days a week to support a dozen people on 2,500 a month.

Now you know why water is important for your CR activities!

I am a European-American. We make up the majority in the USA. You seem to have a lot to learn about the USA and the Philippines. Glad I can help!

[Hestecrefter]

Have you ever seen the inside of a hospital or clinic in the Philippines? There is a reason why everyone prays to God! They are living on faith! Dental clinics are even WORSE than those nightmares they call medical clinics!

I just think it is funny when people talk about how "great" and "modern" the Philippines is. most people do not even have running water in their homes. They drink the water off their roofs.

Yes, I have been in a few clinics and hospitals in the PI. 

I mentioned before having a long-time gf with family living near Tuguegarao.  We visited there a lot, including when we lived in the U.S.  One visit was Christmas 1995.  We flew from LA to Manila, with a connecting flight to Tuguegarao.  When we arrived in Manila, my gf was obviously ill.  We were directed to a clinic at NAIA.  The doctor there diagnosed pneumonia and said I should put her in hospital in Manila. In fact, he was adamant that he would bar her from flying.

The doctor did, however, agree when I said that a patient's recovery often is influenced by psychological factors.  I suggested that my gf had family waiting for her one hour away, that it was Christmas, that we had just flown all the way from LA and she was still alive, and I did not be the one to tell her that she would not be allowed to fly one more hour to get home for Christmas.  I promised to take her to hospital in Tuguegarao.  The doctor relented, cleared her to fly, and I kept my word to check my sweetie into a hospital up north. 

The hospital was clean and decent, but not on a par with what one finds in a major city in, say, the U.S.  The staff were caring and, to my untrained eye, competent.  She was there for 4 days.  I was permitted to sleep on a cot in the same room.  Her family was able to be around much of the time.  She recovered very quickly and I was pleasantly surprised by the bill.  I had been castigating myself for not having taken out medical trip insurance before we departed the U.S.  I worried for naught.  The bill was about $200.  Insurance would probably have cost more.

[Hestecrefter]

Some kind of legal ability? I live in the Philippines. I can work the same as a local. With the exception of government jobs.

Standard of living as a squatter or pauper? I have never heard of paupers here, but skwater? No. I am pretty wealthy, as I said.

20,000 for an ordinary job? Where? Ha ha. Maybe 2 working, educated professionals. To put things in perspective for you, when I met my wife, she was working 20 hours a day, 7 days a week to support a dozen people on 2,500 a month.

Now you know why water is important for your CR activities!

I am a European-American. We make up the majority in the USA. You seem to have a lot to learn about the USA and the Philippines. Glad I can help!

I always thought that non-citizens required an Alien Employment Permit to work in the Phils.  I think the PI Department of Labor and Employment needs you to set them straight:

http://www.ble.dole.gov.ph/index.php/web-pages/118-alien-employment-permit

And yes, I think many people working at fairly mundane jobs are making in the range of P20k/mo.  When I was in Cebu 3 years ago, I recall having a discussion with one woman who was employed by a company teaching English to Koreans.  Her salary was P18,000/mo.  She said she was working to complete a masters degree and hoping to teach school.  She said that would see her pay increase to P30,000.

Another of personal experience is the sister of my former gf.  Back in the 90s, she was employed by the Department of Agrarian Reform in the Cagayan Valley.  In what I would describe as a clerical job, not at the bottom rung, but nowhere near the top.  Her pay THEN was P15,000/mo.

And sorry, but I'll just call flat out bs your claim that your wife worked 20 hours a day, 7 days a week.  I am not a physician, but I am sure that one could simply not function and survive with what would have to be less than 4 hours sleep per night, steady.  And P2,500/mo.?  I will admit to being a bit out of touch, but I would think that even the lowest paid katulong in the Phils gets at least that, and not for a 140-hour week.

I very much doubt that you could teach me a single thing about the U.S. or the Phils.  I simply asked why in one thread you call yourself American, and European in another.  I suggested the possibility that you have both backgrounds.  You have clarified.  No need to get all shirty and tell me I have a lot to learn.  You are the one living where (so you say) people dry dirty tp in the windows.  If you are as erudite and master of all things as is a motif running through your posts on this board, why are you living in squalor?

In the past 24 hours you have seen fit to denigrate posts by me, JoeLP and Gray Wolf and who knows who else.  The latter felt constrained to write:

That is some of the most twisted, bizarre stuff I've ever read. It must be miserable living around you. Please remind me to not be in the same province as you. Ever

With that post I find myself in respectful agreement. 

[UNGGOY]

Yes, I have been in a few clinics and hospitals in the PI. 

I mentioned before having a long-time gf with family living near Tuguegarao.  We visited there a lot, including when we lived in the U.S.  One visit was Christmas 1995.  We flew from LA to Manila, with a connecting flight to Tuguegarao.  When we arrived in Manila, my gf was obviously ill.  We were directed to a clinic at NAIA.  The doctor there diagnosed pneumonia and said I should put her in hospital in Manila. In fact, he was adamant that he would bar her from flying.

The doctor did, however, agree when I said that a patient's recovery often is influenced by psychological factors.  I suggested that my gf had family waiting for her one hour away, that it was Christmas, that we had just flown all the way from LA and she was still alive, and I did not be the one to tell her that she would not be allowed to fly one more hour to get home for Christmas.  I promised to take her to hospital in Tuguegarao.  The doctor relented, cleared her to fly, and I kept my word to check my sweetie into a hospital up north. 

The hospital was clean and decent, but not on a par with what one finds in a major city in, say, the U.S.  The staff were caring and, to my untrained eye, competent.  She was there for 4 days.  I was permitted to sleep on a cot in the same room.  Her family was able to be around much of the time.  She recovered very quickly and I was pleasantly surprised by the bill.  I had been castigating myself for not having taken out medical trip insurance before we departed the U.S.  I worried for naught.  The bill was about $200.  Insurance would probably have cost more.

Holy crap! Well, if you are willing to throw around that kind of money, then no wonders you had a better experience! Not everyone is that rich though. I pay $4 a month for my family. But we have the national health insurance. Which is why we go to the real hospitals. That are scary.

[UNGGOY]

I always thought that non-citizens required an Alien Employment Permit to work in the Phils.  I think the PI Department of Labor and Employment needs you to set them straight:

http://www.ble.dole.gov.ph/index.php/web-pages/118-alien-employment-permit

And yes, I think many people working at fairly mundane jobs are making in the range of P20k/mo.  When I was in Cebu 3 years ago, I recall having a discussion with one woman who was employed by a company teaching English to Koreans.  Her salary was P18,000/mo.  She said she was working to complete a masters degree and hoping to teach school.  She said that would see her pay increase to P30,000.

Another of personal experience is the sister of my former gf.  Back in the 90s, she was employed by the Department of Agrarian Reform in the Cagayan Valley.  In what I would describe as a clerical job, not at the bottom rung, but nowhere near the top.  Her pay THEN was P15,000/mo.

And sorry, but I'll just call flat out bs your claim that your wife worked 20 hours a day, 7 days a week.  I am not a physician, but I am sure that one could simply not function and survive with what would have to be less than 4 hours sleep per night, steady.  And P2,500/mo.?  I will admit to being a bit out of touch, but I would think that even the lowest paid katulong in the Phils gets at least that, and not for a 140-hour week.

I very much doubt that you could teach me a single thing about the U.S. or the Phils.  I simply asked why in one thread you call yourself American, and European in another.  I suggested the possibility that you have both backgrounds.  You have clarified.  No need to get all shirty and tell me I have a lot to learn.  You are the one living where (so you say) people dry dirty tp in the windows.  If you are as erudite and master of all things as is a motif running through your posts on this board, why are you living in squalor?

In the past 24 hours you have seen fit to denigrate posts by me, JoeLP and Gray Wolf and who knows who else.  The latter felt constrained to write:

With that post I find myself in respectful agreement.

If you read the link you posted, you would see that one does NOT need an Alien Employment Permit to work in the Philippines. There is no need to contact them about a rule YOU made up.

p20,000 would NOT be a mundane job! lol. Maybe 1,000 a month. 2,000. English teacher to Koreans is one of the highest paying jobs out there. With the exception of commercial airplane pilot. I have only ever met ONE person that made 30,000 a month.

30,000 salary is a Pay Grade Level 17. Most people do NOT earn level 17. Most people, with a Master's degree, years of experience, and connections with INC, can only DREAM of being Level 1. Let alone 17? Very rare. I am at pay grade level 12. Mind you, I am European-American, educated in America. That is how I was able to get so high. I could possible make level 17 some day. But not too likely. I have actually considered opening my own business teaching Koreans English!

More perspective. 1st Lieutenant in the Army makes 30,000 a month.

Don't forget, most "basic" jobs require a BA or MA to get. The Mc Donald's clerk is not a high school drop-out that was just released from prison for child rape. They hold a university degree and have a spotless record.

I did not live in the Philippines in the 90's, so I will not comment on the salary then.

Funny how you know nothing about the law in the Philippines, culture, salary, or anything at all, and you insult ME? Why are you here? Just to troll?














https://www.ecomparemo.com/info/here-are-the-updated-salaries-of-politicians-and-government-officials/

http://cnnphilippines.com/investigative/2015/02/18/pnp-pay-scale.html

https://aseanup.com/philippines-salary-guide/

http://cnnphilippines.com/business/2015/03/06/highest-paying-jobs-philippines.html

http://davaotoday.com/main/politics/p2000-per-month-helpers-ask-for-decent-wage/

[Hestecrefter]

Holy crap! Well, if you are willing to throw around that kind of money, then no wonders you had a better experience! Not everyone is that rich though. I pay $4 a month for my family. But we have the national health insurance. Which is why we go to the real hospitals. That are scary.

It never occurred to me that $200 for 4 days in a private room in a hospital, with around the clock care, all medicines, oxygen, etc. constituted throwing money around. 

[UNGGOY]

It never occurred to me that $200 for 4 days in a private room in a hospital, with around the clock care, all medicines, oxygen, etc. constituted throwing money around.

It should have. You are clearly a millionaire. That is one of the things you need to learn about where you are from, versus the Philippines.

If anyone I know had a US$200 hospital bill, they would be paying it for years...