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Filipino-American
Relationship
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Written: by a foreigner who get married with a FILIPINA
Hi, I had a similar
experience with my .....ex........Filipina wife. I call
it the "sup to u, sup to me" syndrome. When I met her
here in Cebu about 9 years ago she was as sweet as could
be. Anyone meeting her would say she would be a great
bet for a wife and many people did say that and I
thought so also. Everything we did was always my
decision. Where shall we go today Hon "sup to you" what
would you like to order off the menu "sup to you", what
movie would you like to watch? "sup to you" on and on,
everything sup to you.
Then I brought her back to Alaska on a fiancée visa and
married her and we had a son and then any decision from
that point on was "sup to me"! She was, and still is a
good girl in most ways, never drank or smoked or used
drugs, didn't cheat etc etc but she turned out to be the
most hard headed, obdurate, intractable woman I have
ever known in my life! She became acquainted with a lot
of other Filipina Americans who quickly let her in on
the situation in America..."you don't have to listen to
him any more, just do what you want." She knew from the
start that I wanted to live here in the PI and planned
to balikbayan for a few years b4 retiring completely
here, but once she got to the states she just stubbornly
refused to return to the PI under any circumstances. She
was completely beyond persuasion and in fact wouldn't
even listen to any of my reasoning, just continually
said NO! (SUP TO ME)
So don't anyone count on the sweet loving faithful
Filipina wife returning to live here. Some do but many
don't. I still have a hard time grasping the change in
her attitude. Now we are in a messy argument about my
visitation with my son...another topic! I'm re-married
here in Cebu and will in no circumstance take my new
wife to the states, even though she does hound me about
it occasionally.
She knew exactly my thoughts on the subject when we were
married. I love life in the Philippines and intend to
stay here and keep my wife a sweet Filipina here in this
country. I've seen and heard of too many Filipinas who
became Americana diretcho when they got off the plane. I
could have found a woman like that without leaving the
states if that's what I wanted.
Good luck to all, they do make good wives, even in the
states as long as you are willing to be submissive to
their will and live in the U.S. SUP TO YOU, SUP TO
HER.........
How to tell if your Net girlfriend is scamming you. One of the livinginthephilippines3 members said;
One of the List resource people wrote to a List guest the following, a foreigner who was having second thoughts about marrying a Guest Relationship Officer, (GRO) his girlfriend and fiancée he met in a bar/karaoke.
John wrote:
So you have fallen into the trap by meeting a gorgeous, shy little GRO, and you feel at this moment that you want to marry her. OK, but first let me tell you a little story.
I ran a girlie bar in Manila for just over 5 years. I soon found out the ground rules, and although I didn't approve of them, they were the rules.
Girls were bought from their parents in the provinces for as little as P2000.00, we went on regular shopping trips and I found the whole thing distasteful but that was how it was done.
They traveled back to Manila on the bus, while we came back in a chauffeur driven limo. As soon as they arrived, the teaching process began. Most of the teaching was done by the senior GRO's or more experienced girls at the bar.
The No. 1 Rule is that you are no longer free, you have been purchased by the boss and your parents have been rewarded, do not let your parents down! You are not allowed to go out without written permission from your boss or when you are bar-fined, but then you must arrange this with the Head Geisha.
You belong to the Boss as if you are married to him. You are not allowed to have a personal boyfriend. Every male is your boyfriend, but only if they pay your bar-fine. If you are bar-fined, you must be back on these premises by Noon the following day. If you are late you will be fined and the money will be taken from your salary.
After these ground rules were learnt, the girls settled in and were taught how to please a male by dancing, flirting, massage, and sex. At first I thought I was in paradise with a line of 18 year olds queuing up out side my bedroom door.
But the novelty soon wore off, believe me. The quiet girls were taught that shyness was a tool they could use, because loads of guys are turned on by the sexy little shy one. She acts like the virgin and the little girl lost.
Do not let this fool you. She, like all the others, are in this business to make money for the bar, the object of the exercise is to get the guy to buy loads of ladies drinks and then Bar-fine as many girls as he can handle. All the tricks in the book are used to get the cash out of your pocket and into the till.
Girls under the age of 21 are not allowed to drink alcohol, so if you ply her with drink and take her out, you could get into trouble with the Police, that's if somebody reports you. Big heavy fine, and money all around for the corrupt police and their informers.
Another thing is that if you are dating your girlfriend without paying a bar-fine, she will get into serious trouble with her boss, and you will probably be taught a little lesson by a few heavies that creep up on you from nowhere. I know. I have woken up a few times in the rat infested gutter, with my nose out of joint, all because of a shy little GRO.
OK you think you love her and want to marry her. You say you are 45. By the time she is 25 and at her sexual peak, you will be in your 50's. She will go back to the bar, she will want to show off to her old friends that she is now all grown up, and she has her old husband paying for everything she wants in life. Plus he is paying for everything her parents want....and the sisters and brothers... and the 500 or so cousins that are waiting in line for their share.
She will see the girls in her old place of work, having a good time with the punters, while all she has to look forward to that day is a pile of washing and ironing. She will be very tempted to have just one drink with an old flame and listen to his drunken promises. She will probably take him to a short time hotel and earn some extra housekeeping by just laying on her back for an hour or so. Eventually you will get suspicious, the rows will start, She will go back to work in the bar. The end!
Sorry mate, there are hundreds of thousands of gorgeous decent Filipino girls in this world, all looking for the man of their dreams, and all wanting to settle down, start a family and live Happily Ever After. You are a little bit like myself. I too fell in love with a GRO, but a good friend warned me of the dangers, I lived with her for a couple of years and we had some great times, but she would always go back to the bar to see her friends once a week, then twice a week, making excuses, coming home at 4 in the morning, drunk and clothes torn. Then into Shabu [methamphetamine, speed, crank.] Bye bye little shy GRO. Now probably dead.
It will be hard to make the break, but you must. Remain good friends but please don't marry her. Because she is already married...TO THE BAR
By: JOHN HARMAN. 3-21-05 by permission
There is a saying, "You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl." I believe this is true most of the time, certainly from what I have seen in the past 15 years. There are exceptions, but rare. The bar is exciting. Provincial girls become idols of customers, stars in their own eyes, make tight friendships in the bars. But some girls find a boyfriend before they get hung up with the life. But that is rare. There is usually always some problem that brought them to this, in addition to poverty, they can't shake.
Should You and Older Guy Have Children With Your Younger Filipina Wife?
The answer is probably yes. You may want one and she will for sure, if she is the average Filipina. But keep mind, studies show fathers are five times more likely to have children with birth defects.
One recent study has shown that the risk of chromosomal abnormalities such as Down's syndrome rises with the father's age. And the risk begins to increase in men as young as 35. Most guys here are way over that age before they get married. The study is important in that is is the first one studying older men who have fathered children with women under 30.
Previous research has suggested older men might be more likely to have children with certain birth defects. But the new study is the first to quantify the risk according to rising paternal age. It shows that it is not just women who need to keep an eye on the biological clock when it comes to having children. That was already documented.
The researchers from the U.S. and Denmark, whose study is based on more than 70,000 births, say the findings show the rate of mutations in germ cells, which may cause congenital malformations, increases faster in men than in women.
Researcher Dr Jorn Olsen, of the University of California, said: 'So far, increasing maternal age is the most important, perhaps the only well-documented risk factor, and evidence of a paternal age effect is missing.' There has been very little study of older fathers despite publicity given to such celebrities as Clint Eastwood who had a daughter at 67. In the new study published this month in the medical journal Human Reproduction, researchers from the National Institutes of Health in the U.S. He used unique Danish fertility data covering ages of parents as well as details on births.
The analysis was restricted to couples in which the mother was aged under 29, but the father was any age over 20. A total of 71,397 births were included. The researchers compared malformation rates in the children with the age of the fathers. The results of the study are startling: A 45-year-old man is almost three times more likely to father a Down's syndrome child than a man aged under 30.
For men over 50, the risk is almost fivefold.
The risk of having a child with a cleft lip doubles when the man is aged over 50. The results show the risk of some congenital conditions starts to rise when the father is aged between 35 and 40. Researchers, medical doctors have done recent studies. There results indicate fathers of advanced age, may be associated are more likely to have children with birth defects including but not limited to Down's syndrome.
They find a significant association between paternal age and malformation of extremities, as well as Down's.' The researchers also point out that deaths such as stillbirths also increase with advancing age of the father. This indicates the total effects of paternal age may be even greater. So before you make the decision to have a child with your younger wife, do consider this risk. Studies show death at birth correlates with paternal age, including the mothers age, not much of a problem her for foreigners who usually have much younger wives.
It is probably not just age that causes the problems, but the environmental damage that comes with age. The organs involved in sperm production can be affected by smoking, sunlight, lifestyle and others.
Yes, there are a lot of older guys with young wife's walking around happy as larks with them and their healthy kids at the shopping malls. But the sad cases you don't hear about or see. To many don't make it out of the womb alive. We can only hope that test are developed that will give us an indication of how safe it would be to have a child over a certain age. Until then we will just have to weigh what odds we have, do some soul searching and make out best judgment. But I don't think it is wise for a 70 years old guy to have a vasectomy reversal, chancy at best, in an attempt to have a child that may never grow up and if he does suffer from a serious birth defect.
Why Filipinas appreciate
western men, speculation from my experience. .
First, the Filipino man is a problem, I feel. Women here get the dirty end of the stick, like in many Asian countries. But in these Asian countries where it happens it is not considered the "dirty end," but a duty. And the women don't necessarily want it another way. They have way of turning the dirt into gold and control.
I mentioned in a previously, a woman who commits adultery can go to jail. But she would not dare. The social pressures would destroy her as it does many mistresses. A man is in de facto pretty much exempt from that law. It may be enforced if the wife has money, status and power of her own. But she will lose face and she loses her husband.
I just read in the paper today that a city official is implementing a program to train wives so they will not be "naggers." (Bimbo may be strange name to you. If you live here for any length of time, you would not blink your eyes at such a name) Councilman Bimbo feels that wife abuse cases will go down if women are taught to accept the behavior of their husbands.
I talked to some Filipinos and Filipinas about it including my house helpers. They feel it is a good idea. (Maybe some are putting me on. Filipinos will tell you what they think you want to hear. They like to make you happy. It doe not make me happy or sad. I just want to know their feelings) And even I believe it will. But I don't think that is the right answer because it would probably work. But you could kill all the naggers too. That would work for sure, but not a grand solution.
The Filipino husbands have been often spoiled by their parents and sisters and expect to be spoiled by their wives. So the wives too spoil them: comb their hair, bath them, cook for them, etc. They put up with their unfaithfulness. A woman "martyr" is admired, a good woman. If they do this they are considered a good wife. If they don't they are considered a disgrace. A woman who does not honor her husband , be foreigner or Filipino above all is considered culturally insane. A Filipino wife who is provincial will get upset if you carry your own bag. She feels it is her place to carry it for you and if you don't let her she will be embarrassed.
If she can't provide a boy baby, the man has the right to seek a mistress and have another family, if he can afford it. Mistresses can be had on almost any pretext. Why is it like that? Everybody, even women want boy children. If there is one peanut left to eat the boy gets both pieces. The father often pays little attention to the girls and worships his boys, especially the older one, who will carry his name. The girls are sent out to work while the boy's education is first. If money is left over the girl gets educated. The all compete for parental attention, particularly the fathers or kuya who is the oldest boy.
Girls, at first, don't get much affection from their fathers. And the families are often large, many children one father. So when they get a man, they most often really appreciate it. They want to touch him, be close to him and care for him. They often are terrified that he will stray, but accept. Daughters often become favorites of there father, may times because of manipulation skills honed to a fine edge our of necessity. These skill follow on into marriage an they my dominate the man without him even knowing it.
Why Filipinas appreciate western men,speculation from my experience. . .
First, the Filipino man is a problem, I feel. Women here get the dirty end of the stick, like in many Asian countries. But in these Asian countries where it happens it is not considered the "dirty end," but a duty. And the women don't necessarily want it another way. They have way of turning the dirt into gold and control.
I mentioned in a previously, a woman who commits adultery can go to jail. But she would not dare. The social pressures would destroy her as it does many mistresses. A man is in de facto pretty much exempt from that law. It may be enforced if the wife has money, status and power of her own. But she will lose face and she loses her husband.
I just read in the paper today that a city official is implementing a program to train wives so they will not be "naggers."(Bimbo may be strange name to you. If you live here for any length of time, you would not blink your eyes at such a name) Councilman Bimbo feels that wife abuse cases will go down if women are taught to accept the behavior of their husbands.
I talked to some Filipinos and Filipinas about it including my house helpers. They feel it is a good idea. (Maybe some are putting me on. Filipinos will tell you what they think you want to hear. They like to make you happy. It doe not make me happy or sad. I just want to know their feelings) And even I believe it will. But I don't think that is the right answer because it would probably work. But you could kill all the naggers too. That would work for sure, but not a grand solution.
The Filipino husbands have been often spoiled by their parents and sisters and expect to be spoiled by their wives. So the wives too spoil them: comb their hair, bath them, cook for them, etc. They put up with their unfaithfulness. A woman "martyr" is admired, a good woman. If they do this they are considered a good wife. If they don't they are considered a disgrace. A woman who does not honor her husband , be foreigner or Filipino above all is considered culturally insane. A Filipino wife who is provincial will get upset if you carry your own bag. She feels it is her place to carry it for you and if you don't let her she will be embarrassed.
If she can't provide a boy baby, the man has the right to seek a mistress and have another family, if he can afford it. Mistresses can be had on almost any pretext. Why is it like that? Everybody, even women want boy children. If there is one peanut left to eat the boy gets both pieces. The father often pays little attention to the girls and worships his boys, especially the older one, who will carry his name. The girls are sent out to work while the boy's education is first. If money is left over the girl gets educated. The all compete for parental attention, particularly the fathers or kuya who is the oldest boy.
Girls, at first, don't get much affection from their fathers. And the families are often large, many children one father. So when they get a man, they most often really appreciate it. They want to touch him, be close to him and care for him. They often are terrified that he will stray, but accept. Daughters often become favorites of there father, may times because of manipulation skills honed to a fine edge our of necessity. These skill follow on into marriage an they my dominate the man without him even knowing it.
A foreigner does not have that much leeway as a Filipino man. Filipinas wives expect more from him, loyalty, faithfulness, there idea of the Western man, especially after they have live in a developed Western country and been enlightened by the women there who in my opinion control the country.
As for fat and age, they are both pluses. Age gets respect here. And fat means you can afford to feed your family. Skinny does not make it. I told my present girl friend I wanted to lose some of my belly and she got upset. She was confused and asked "Why?" Some say this is because Filipinas /os They have a "colonial" mentality. Their history of domination by the Spanish and then us made them this way. Anything foreign is better than local, including human beings to some of the those really brainwashed.
A girl asked me "Do Americans hate liars." I said some do and some don't. I said that some lie a lot so they might scream a lot when someone lies to them. She said she did not believe Americans lied. I said watch me. :)
Nobody wants to be a Filipino. Even the men want to go to the States. I had a couple of young men over here the other day. They were college students, first year, small and dark skinned. They wanted badly to go to the States. They said the women in the States were beautiful. All they see is the movie stars on TV. I told them might not stand a chance with one of these Stars. The said they wanted to try. They knew American women were very liberal and would have sex with anyone. I told them I didn't know that. Filipino men do not marry non virgins.
If a girl is a not virgin they know their only chance is a foreigner. If the have a child they think even a foreigner will not marry them regardless of how beautiful, talented and educated they may be. I saw an 18 year old I know casually at the coffee shop this morning. Her former boy friend gave her a girl child and left for another woman he married. She is stunningly beautiful. She said "Is it possible an American would marry me?" I said, "Maybe." Her name is Jane. Any takers? She works at a bakery making about $25 per month, is a high school graduate and reasonably intelligent, but eighteen. She supports her child and pays for here own maid, a sixteen year old who works for a few pesos a month and food. She does not think she is desirable because she is too skinny. An over weight American girl would give several limbs to have a body like hers.
Do you think Jane is interested in a Green Card? She does not know what one is. Is it money? Yes. But even more she also wants someone who will accept her and love her and her child. A foreigner might. A Filipino man will certainly not. His family would disown him, a fate worse than death in this culture. The problem with Jane is like the problem with bar girls. They have been told by society the have no value. They begin to believe that and have no value. Jane has not gone that far yet, but that is where she is headed and so are many more like her.
So most Foreigners marry the first Filipina they come in contact, the "first Filipina syndrome." some of us old timers say. They say never will I find another like this one, as good and wonderful caring and as beautiful. Not so. They lurk around every corner. The guy. after he has been here a while, says to himself, "Why on God's green earth did I marry this one or get married at all. It is not that she is not a fine lady, she is a wonderful lady, but now I know what I could have had. There is a lot of greener grass on this earth than I first saw and with which I took roots."
It is a matter of bonding too quickly from a distance. I have counseled guys about this. But they are already in love and you might as well be talking to a post. They may hate you for raining on their parade. I don't do that any more. Later they see the light and say, "Oh, why didn't you tell me?"
Often the women who are on pen pals lists and you meet on chat looking for a foreigner are women who are smart enough to be dissatisfied. They are often unhappy, are non virgins, have children or really dissatisfied with life in general. I feel it is better to come here, shop around, and find one who would never consider a pen pal list because she is very happy. In my very limited personal experience the ones on pen pal lists generally have emotional problems that are difficult. The hearsay I get gives strong support for my the conclusions I made from my limited experience.
But if you marry one, pen, Net pal or not, who is already happy, contented, you stand a better chance of success. And success is hard because of the usual age differences and vas but not apparent culture divide. They are decieving like us and we like the, but it is surface only.
I don't have the figures but I speculate more marriages fail than prosper though you don't hear as much about the failures. Guys brag about what a great Filipina wife they have when it works out. They don't mention it when they have had a bad experience, or at least not as much. And often they know it is not their fault or the fault of the Filipina. Some of the brighter ones come to understand that a Filipina, because she is Filipino, is happier with a man from her own culture, who she can relate to. She really wants someone she can go to the cemetery on Holy Week, the fiesta with and see what she sees, feels what she feels, experiences and enjoys the same things she does. Evens when they fail, there is something compelling about the Filipina. They, like I did come back for more, despite the pain they suffer for the first or second. Filipinas are addictive, but not necessarily dangerous to your health. But they could be, one with a temper and a bolo. I had one of those.
A foreigner should, thought it is hard to fathom, that the extended family is more important than the individual. One who understands that understands why they must sacrifice personal happiness for the happiness of the group. One who knows that, knows the town fiesta is not just a bunch of people eating and drinking. But they know is a anticipated opportunity to visit with people who are a part of you, who you grew up with, who you care about. They know all these town mates are her brothers and sisters, a lot more than friends.
Now if the girl, woman is insecure, has a poor self image or needs status badly or both, being married to a foreigner may be the only thing that can bestow that status on her. And she will stick with him through thick and thin to keep it. Having the approval of others is the main goal of Filipino life, especially when those others are members of the f-a-m-i-l-y. the extended one. The expatriate is a marginal person here. He is not Filipino. And he does not have his culture to support him. He will never be a Filipino nor does he want to be one. He cannot divorce himself from his culture and will never anything but an object of curiosity to those in the culture he is in.
He is a foreigner first and foremost, and respected for it. But when it comes to serious things he cannot be expected to understand because he is "just a foreigner." Life is hard for the foreign male here. Not being used to the culture and attention he becomes confused, disoriented and often turns to hanging around bars with other foreigners who are just as confused as he is. I have seen so many go to drink because of constant stress of being in demand and not knowing why. He is wondering if they want him for his money, for his status or for him. He often ends up hating the country and the people because of the stress.
Things are changing. No culture is static. But cultural values change slow especially in the rural areas, as they say here "the province."
Fat foreigners, old men, are just not used to being the objects of admiration, status and desire. Others take up more socially acceptable way to deal with their problems. Some get really involved in business, community work, religious activities. Others dwell on sex, a few resort to drugs. At least one, me, writes a bunch of crazy stuff on Internet mailing list. This is another quick down and dirty essay for you, for what it is worth.
Please remember this, like everything else I write, though I may sound like I am writing gospel, is just one man's opinion. I am wrong as often as I am right. If you were on the list you may remember I speculated that when the ice caps melted and the sea rose we would have more islands.
(From an old post on Livinginthephilippines before it was deleted by a vandal)
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