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Author Topic: Philippines Social Security System  (Read 28759 times)

Offline Lee2

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 09:56:46 PM »
Isn\'t being married to a foreigner enough? Most of us are responsible enough to make sure our wives are financially secure when we move on. Before you ask, my wife will get half my private (BT) pension and her own state pension.

Colin

i find your first remark here very rude and degrading to Filipino\'s.
i have no interest it what your wife will get but as you stated she will receive her own (British) state pension lucky her .but this may not be the case for everyone. but i was asking about the alternatives to the Philippine state pension as you said it really is not worth doing and what alternatives other than Philippine saving accounts.
so i am just interested in the many alternatives  for them that you say there is.

I think you may have taken Colins remark wrong because he is never disrespectful to Filipinos and only stated his facts of how he intends to help his wife beyond his days.

As for myself, we bought some condos for my wife to rent out and for us to live in while we live in Cebu part time until we make the final move over to full time. I find that to be a good investment if bought in an area where it is pretty easy to rent out. Of course that also takes money but they now have so many schemes to pay that it has become pretty practical for almost everyone as long as a person feels that they are healthy enough to at least live out the term of the payments. One place offers 30% down with 5 years to pay the balance and that seems to be the norm for now with other places as well since money is tight right now all over from what I read.

If and when we move over then I will try to find some strip homes that we might be able to buy and live in one and rent out the rest of get a honest friend to act as rental agent for us and maybe live in one of the units. I saw one in Pardo Cebu for a good price but since we are not there right now then it would not be easy to keep an eye on where the condos we have a friend who takes care of them.

My govt pension stops when I die, and my wife being only 41 now, makes her 19 years from getting social security widows benefits should I predispose her, so planning is important for a wife\'s future be it via education so that she can get a good job to support herself or via investment vehicles that will bring in a steady steam of income.

I hope that I too have not been disrespectful for stating my position, just trying to help others with possibilities for them.

:) Happily married since 1994 & live part of the year in Cebu and the rest in S. Florida.

Offline paulgee

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 11:00:58 PM »
Isn\'t being married to a foreigner enough? Most of us are responsible enough to make sure our wives are financially secure when we move on. Before you ask, my wife will get half my private (BT) pension and her own state pension.

Colin

i find your first remark here very rude and degrading to Filipino\'s.
i have no interest it what your wife will get but as you stated she will receive her own (British) state pension lucky her .but this may not be the case for everyone. but i was asking about the alternatives to the Philippine state pension as you said it really is not worth doing and what alternatives other than Philippine saving accounts.
so i am just interested in the many alternatives  for them that you say there is.

Yes, reading Colins answer I understood what he was saying, being married to a Filipina who will doubtless outlive me I know that the financial benefit of being married to a foreigner means she will inherit when I am no longer here.

I imagine many Filipina wives will be in the same situation, and as responsible husbands we will have pensions to pass on to our wives or investments/savings to pass on. One benefit is that what would be an amount too small to survive on in our own country becomes a more than adequate income in the Philippines.

I must admit I don\'t understand the savings/banking system in the Philippines but from what I have read I can see no opportunities to invest anywhere there in order to generate an income from any savings.

Paul
Based in the UK, and part time in our San Fernando, Pampanga house

uk

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2009, 02:58:04 PM »
as this site is about living in the Philippines where i live .
my point is about investments in the Philippine in local currency it is all good and well saying your wives will inherit money . but it may not last and if it is held abroad they will be hopeing the exchange rate stays strong .
what would happen if the $ ,£ dropped to 10 to 1 in 20,30 years time could they still get by ?
now i know most of you will say that will never happen but if you look back  5 years ago we were getting 50-55 peso to the $ and 100-105 peso to the £ .Then at the beginning of this year it was down to 40 for the $ and 65 for the £ and today it is only 46-$ 74-£.
now if they have a pension/investment here that pays out  in local currency exchange rates in the future will be less of a worry if it stays strong great but if it dropped low they would have a local income to fall back on .

hope this helps you all to understand my thoughts.

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2009, 06:39:17 PM »
What would happen if the $ and or £ dropped, would our surviving spouse still get by on what we left them with?

uk,
That too would be my question exactly! But on the other side of that question, wouldn\'t the Philippines still be the cheapest place to live compared to the U.S. or U.K even if the exchange rate took a nose dive 5 or 10 years from now? I would think so, because why have most of us expats decided to live here in the first place? Most of you should know the obvious answer to that question! At least with what ever money or assets that will be left to our surviving spouse and family, there will always be food on table and a roof over their heads, poorer people here in the Philippines barely have that!

That too is just my thoughts on this subject!  

Offline aerosick

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2009, 08:51:58 PM »
I have created a New Topic \"Our Future Plans\" for Posting about setting up your family\'s future security when you are gone. I made a Post there:

http://livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php/topic,3213.new.html#new

Later we might try to move some of these Posts there. Or you might want to Repost parts of your Posts that apply to this.

[PS: If you will copy/paste your Posts there, it will help us immensely. What we think you are saying might not match up with what you wanted.]

Billy ~ Admin
"We're here to preserve democracy, not practice it."

Gene Hackman: Crimson Tide ~ 1995

Offline Lunkan

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2012, 01:04:03 AM »
In general I believe such pension systems are only good investments if you will live much longer than average   :)
But for employing Phili it\'s obligatoric (if I have understood corect, at least it\'s obligatoric normally.)

Phili lack much investment money, which make 20 % interest per year common, so I suppose there are much better investment in RP than SSS.
I haven\'t checked how the Phili stock market has developed in average since 2000, but Phili national production (=\"GNP\"?) has developed very good. As best + 9 % in a year, as badest PLUS 4.5 % 2008, when many countries got DECREESED... So I suppose many Phili stocks have developed good. So even chose some shares just by random, I suppose have a good chance to get a much better \"retirement\" value than SSS. An other big advantage is you can chose yourself if you want to \"borrow\" from that capital.

Can\'t wives and still underaged children get pay from your countries too, when you pass away?
E g for Sweden they get, IF they have double citizenship:
/Wife: For ONE YEAR. (We skipped widow pension many years ago, but pay one year, undepending of if the husband or the wife live longer, to give that person time to adjust living costs for home and such.)
/Children: Depending of how many they are but e g 35 % if one, 25 % each if 2.
Percentages counted of what your own retirement pay would have been if you had been alive.
That\'s rather much for living in RP.
(I didn\'t check percentage for wife, because I don\'t expect her but children to have double citizenship.)

  We keep our savings in USD. The interest is terrible but the difference in currencies over the years seems too show USD is a better bet.  When I came to the Philippines the rate was P19 to $1.  Dick
(But in currency value changes point of, there are many better options than USD  :)    E g the value of dollars compared to Swedish krona has went DOWN from almost 12 to around 6.7 during the last 10 years. Back then I even put in a paragraph in a long term contract made in dollars between a Swedish company and Russians, their pay (in US dollars) will be adjusted down if USD would go above 12 SEK, but instead it went down to 6. Even with the shaking situation Euro have had recently, it has developed much better than USD. Depending of when compare too, but around 30 % better.)

Offline richardsinger

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2012, 07:15:08 AM »
Phili lack much investment money, which make 20 % interest per year common, so I suppose there are much better investment in RP than SSS.

Actually, for small unsecured loans, even for investment purposes, 20% per month interest is very common. That\'s from \"informal\" money lenders, but even from established padala shops who lend money, the advertised rate can be  around 10% per month. But if you plan to enter the money lending business (as a lender), beware of established lenders who will resent a foreigner dipping into their rice bowl.

Richard

Offline Lunkan

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2012, 02:33:16 PM »
Yes, I wrote somewhere I expect that risk if going ibto such business. But I will probably not be in such business, but perhaps work some for free for a Miniinvestment/loan organisation.

But I guess it\'s risk I can get problem if I HELP* the poor too, because then the loan shark will be some less needed.

*For instance by assisting poor farmers save own/get cheaper seeds/plants.

I will want to do something to assist the village.
How risky - for my health - do you think such as above would be?

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2012, 02:45:31 AM »
The micro-loan business, known by the locals as \"5/6\", is cut-throat, literally.   I wouldn\'t even be a silent partner in one of those.  Someone would find out that you are involved and would either rob your house, kidnap you for ransom, or worse.  There are numerous stories of people literally losing their heads.

Helping farmers would be better for your health... if there are any farmers in the jungle mountainside where you plan to dig your cave.   ;D  Joke lang!   ;)  :)  :) 
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline Lunkan

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2012, 07:56:07 PM »
Although I don\'t know what \"5/6 loans\" are, but you seem to mean something much different with \"Micro loans\" than I and organications as Grameen Foundation do.
Quote
(From their website]
Grameen Foundation helps the world\'s poorest, especially women, improve their lives and escape poverty by providing them with access to small loans, essential information, and viable business opportunities.
Depending of how much time I will have left after my main business (=surely OTHER than loans) I will decide if I will check if I can do some volontary work localy for such an established AID* organisation, or do something similar in small scale by myself (IF the locals seem to want such  :)

*At least the founder\'s idea is an AID organisation, where the Micro loans just are TOOLS to help poor to help themselves.

Offline RUFUS

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2012, 01:17:31 AM »
Here is a page that pretty much sums up a 5/6 loan.
http://sharedreviews.com/article/no-to-5-6-loan

You can indeed make small loans to farmers to help them out without \"loansharking\" them.
Usually these small loans will not give you much profit, but could save you some money in the form of credits.
E.g. You can pay for a farmers seed or fertilizer, and in return would be given a share of his crop in return for your \"loan\".
Since you would most likely plan on eating in the future, you could save some money since the return on your investment would result a much larger amount of food for an equal amount of pisos.
This is much safer and beneficial for both parties.
SO SAYETH THE RUFUS

Offline Lunkan

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2012, 07:49:03 AM »
Oh even worse than i thought.
If they pay back same sum every day during the whole period, then the interest rate is (around*) DOUBLE as high as it sounds, because they loan the sum only HALF the period in average, if I think correct*  now in the middle of the night  :)

*I believe civil economists are teached an exact formula, but I have just counted roughly myself, not sure if I got the decimal correct  :)

If e g 100 days
2 x 365/100 x 20 % = As a 146 percent interest rate per year !!!   Much to much in my point of view.

--
Yes, it can be an alternative, some can be eaten and some can be used again as seeds, but I better think of the food are different treated than them, who need to grow again  :) 
 
What\'s common share for such in Phili?      I guess it\'s to high interest normally.
(In Thailand I heard they had an other type of deal where financier ow the land too, and then the farmer only got 40 % or so of the harvest.)

But what I wonder mainly is how the loan sharks would react if I start offer much lower cost loans  :)

Can it perhaps be solved by involving the barangar leaders in deciding the lower interest rate?
Or are they normally same as/related to the loan sharks?  :)

(A funny real story from Thailand:
A foreigner living there in a village had bought an expensive farming machine. The village elder thought it was very useful, but decided he would get a MUCH TO LOW pay per acre. if he would do work in that village only, then it would take houndreds of years to get the investment back   ;D

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2012, 10:36:10 AM »
But what I wonder mainly is how the loan sharks would react if I start offer much lower cost loans  :)

You would soon learn the meaning of \"bolo justice\".    Filipinos do not like the idea of someone dipping into their rice bowl.
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline Lunkan

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2012, 04:51:13 PM »
Yes, I have written it, because I expect it\'s a big risk the loan sharks get angry.
A. That\'s a reason I will probably stay out of normal loan business (against estate as security)
B. but it\'s a problem, how to solve to have a possibility to give the poor locals Help-to-self-help, because such reduces customers for the loan sharks too.
I suppose different loan sharks can be much different civilized, and I GUESS countryside loan sharks in AVERAGE are calmer than big Mafia types in big cities. Just an idea the one I mentioned somewhere it can perhaps be solved through local barangar leaders approval. If the loan sharks are civilized and find they will have customers enough anyway, then it can perhaps even be worth ASK them what they can find OK I do. BUT I doubt I find the last idea any good myself either   ;D    Of course much better if I can keep a low profile, perhaps even manage to make the neighbourhood believing I don\'t have money left, just REPRESENTING someone abroad, even if I use my own money. Best I guess will be if I will do voluntary work for an existing such aid Micro loan organisation, because then me just representing would be true  :)

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Philippines Social Security System
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2012, 11:44:56 PM »
Of course much better if I can keep a low profile, perhaps even manage to make the neighbourhood believing I don\'t have money left, just REPRESENTING someone abroad, even if I use my own money. Best I guess will be if I will do voluntary work for an existing such aid Micro loan organisation, because then me just representing would be true  :)

Setting yourself up to become the next kidnap for ransom victim.   :P
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH