Labor Law

[midaut]

To fire someone for poor performance is difficult if the employee doesn't accept it.  The employee has the right to fight the dismissal and then government agencies can get involved.  There is severance pay required depending on length of service and the type of dismissal.  You need to talk to someone at the Department of Labor and Employment about these types of issues.

This is the problem in Indonesia too.

[midaut]

She has workers that been with her for over 6 years.  Still all under contract work.  Just an idea.

So you can hire the same worker on contract, and renew it year after year (no limit)?

[JoeLP]

So you can hire the same worker on contract, and renew it year after year (no limit)?

Tina is at work, so I cannot ask her. But, she's had the same girls working as collectors under her now for 5 years in the market.  A few changes, but that is more a retired person leaving and someone taking that place.  But, a big core of the group has been around on just contract for years in the market. 

Same for the workers in the hardware.  It's the place Tina always sends me when we need something, or just the place I go when I need something.  Sometimes we get special prices.  I've seen the same pretty chicas in the front and same guys fetching stuff for all the 3+ years I've been here.

[suzukig1]

So you can hire the same worker on contract, and renew it year after year (no limit)?

It's in violation of the intention of the labor code but I don't know if it is illegal as long as the contract ends before 6 months.

However, I don't think it would be a good idea for a foreigner or foreign company to practice this.

[BudM]

A political thread? Over the dark side? Those are just my opinion because I live around it. I am a Filipino and these are MY country mates. If you want to hear just the positive  views, fine, feel free to delete my post. In fact my nephew was one of them. My younger brother was one of them. Thousands if not millions out there are having to go through this scheme,supposedly invented to attract investors. My nephew was very happy to have a job after a year from graduating from college. But how do you feel when you know that you only have six months and there's no way you get to be permanent no matter how hard you work? And you have to look for another job and six months later you go look for another one? That SOME companies are taking advantage of this law? In the US, there is such a probationary period, and if you're worth the job you get hired permanently. Not here, unless you work for the government, had the eligibility and your job is guaranteed no matter what.

I did not say anything about deleting your thread and did not say anything about you not being allowed your own opinion.  Besides, even if I wanted to delete it, I don't have the authority to do so.  If I felt your thread was offensive to me, I would have reported it.  I was just asking a simple question to a political opinion sneaked in to a thread about labor laws.  I am surprised someone has not said something to me about posing a question to what you said already as if I might be picking on you or something.

You said it.  The US has laws to prevent stuff like that but don't kid yourself, there is no guarantee that you have a job for life.  So, the Philippines have some flawed labor laws.  Guess what?  There are some things flawed with US labor laws too.  The thing is that the US is a capitalistic economy and in my opinion, the best type of economy going so I do not quite understand your swipe at capitalist.  Yeah, I have an opinion too.

By the way, even though I am not a Filipino like you and have not experienced the difficulty here in getting a permanent job, I am sure it has not affected me to the extent it has you but I do live here, my wife is working in the Philippines, I have nephews and nieces trying to make a name for themselves in the Philippines and I have friends who work in the Philippines.  So, let's not kid ourselves to how much more we know of what we are talking about than the other.

[JoeLP]

Whether it is what the legal system intended or not, it is the way it works now.  Tina was in the whole contract setup for almost 3 years with the local government.  She graduated college.  Went to Manila.  Did contract work there for 3 years.  Then returned home.  Opened her catering business because she could not find work.  Then finally got a job on contract basis in the local government.  She did that, like I said above or 3 years before finally getting hired in full time. 

Here's the thing, there are many that did it for much longer.  Tina got real lucky.  While working for the then mayor, the mayor's wife really started to like Tina, and when she had to take trips to places, would take Tina with her as an assistant.  Later, that led to Tina getting hired in full time. 

There are right now 3 fellow classmates from Tina's college days that are still doing contract work for the local government.  We're talking it hitting two decades of being out of college and working for the government on contract setups.

As mentioned before my post, this might be something that a foriegner shouldn't do.  I have no idea.  I do have a few foreign friends from the next municipality over that own a pizza shop and a resort.  They are in the wive's name and all.  But, I bet they are all contract also.  I'll check into that or talk to Tina.  She probably knows.

[midaut]

I'll check into that or talk to Tina.  She probably knows.

Will appreciate that, thanks JoeLP.

[JoeLP]

Ok, talked to the guys that run he businesses.  The resort, open now for a little over 6 years, has 2 full time workers.  The rest are all contract. The 2 full time workers were contract workers for almost 3 years also before full time hires. 

This is more a game of the business really.  He has the resort rooms, and the function hall.  In slow season he barely uses his full time workers for all their hours.  During busy season he can use up to 4 contract workers and per job workers.  So even the contract workers there are not a lot of.  More just used for laundry and cleaning and grounds pickup. 

For the Pizza shop, only contract workers.  There are 4 guys who invested in it and run it.  They take their own times at working it.  Basically it's an attempt to start a chain with locals buying in.  So they are trying to display it as a place that doesn't need a lot of workers to operate and a family can handle most jobs with just a contract worker or 2.  So each day one of the foreigners is there, and then about 3 or so contract workers. 

The pizza shop is about a year old now.  So I guess that's a see how it goes.

Anyway, they are foreigners and they do hire contract workers on a repeat setup. 

Now, while they are technically only 20 minutes away form the provinces capital....the capital has a highway running through the airport runway and is still classified as only a Municipality and not a city.  We are pretty much out in the province and a ways away form any government eyes.  I think the local government is just happy for a few more succesful businesses where locals are hired and money is being moved around. 

[midaut]

Ok, talked to the guys that run he businesses.  The resort, open now for a little over 6 years, has 2 full time workers.  The rest are all contract. The 2 full time workers were contract workers for almost 3 years also before full time hires. 

This is more a game of the business really.  He has the resort rooms, and the function hall.  In slow season he barely uses his full time workers for all their hours.  During busy season he can use up to 4 contract workers and per job workers.  So even the contract workers there are not a lot of.  More just used for laundry and cleaning and grounds pickup. 

For the Pizza shop, only contract workers.  There are 4 guys who invested in it and run it.  They take their own times at working it.  Basically it's an attempt to start a chain with locals buying in.  So they are trying to display it as a place that doesn't need a lot of workers to operate and a family can handle most jobs with just a contract worker or 2.  So each day one of the foreigners is there, and then about 3 or so contract workers. 

The pizza shop is about a year old now.  So I guess that's a see how it goes.

Anyway, they are foreigners and they do hire contract workers on a repeat setup. 

Now, while they are technically only 20 minutes away form the provinces capital....the capital has a highway running through the airport runway and is still classified as only a Municipality and not a city.  We are pretty much out in the province and a ways away form any government eyes.  I think the local government is just happy for a few more succesful businesses where locals are hired and money is being moved around.

Thanks indeed JoeLP.

[medic3500]

US labor laws vary from state to state. Try to work in a "Right To Work State" where the employer has the right to terminate you at any point for any reason no questions asked. That scare tactic is always hanging over your head. It happened to me but in a round about way leading up some of the financial issues I have to deal with now. I was employed full time at a EMS company I liked a lot and was getting positive feedback from patients, hospital staff and management. Then one fateful night I was attacked by a patient drunk and high on drugs (verified by blood work ordered by police) witnessed by several people including police. The injuries included ripping the tendons and ligaments from my elbow, caused a fracture in my elbow, ruptured the Bicep muscle causing it to basically explode in the upper arm. Yes it took extensive surgery to repair and almost a year out of work on workman's compensation and Physical Therapy to get back 98% use of my arm. Thanking the good lord as I was told to expect 50% use. I went back to work full time after 11 1/2 months without much problem. After it was all done and over a lawyer contacted me to talk, after some fast talk and bullshit he convinced me to sue the company, the workman's comp and the individual who assaulted me for total lost wages, my out of pocket expenses during the time, etc. etc, in the end if I win it would be quite beneficial to me if I lose it cost me nothing as the lawyer took the case on contingent. The lawyer said don't worry the company you work for has insurance to cover this kind of stuff. The reason for the complete background is to show how F-up US labor laws are and how employers can get around them. Less than 90 days after going back to work I was summoned and informed that the company was making changes and that two full time employees were being moved from full time status to part time and I was one. Remember I was one of the top performers, had the ratings to show it and letters of recognition and the other guy was a lazy crap bag. Anyhow I was told I would maintain my basic hours and what I lost I would make up in OT covering other shifts as part timers could do that. I would lose my medical benefits which was ok with me as I had other private coverage. That lasted a total of two months and my hours kept getting cut to the point I had to seek additional side employment to maintain my mortgage payments. When they found out I had second employment they fired me stating I did not seek permission to have a secondary job which was in the the disclosure agreement I signed when hired and there was no fighting it.