Living In The Philippines Forum

Contributions By Members => Brit/Oz/Euro Info Centre => Topic started by: Colin on January 02, 2016, 03:42:29 AM

Title: UK NHS
Post by: Colin on January 02, 2016, 03:42:29 AM
I would advise any Brit moving permamantly to the Philippines not to break their connection with the NHS. If you go back later for treatment you may be asked to pay. It seems that we were accepted because we are fully paid and both receive a government pensions, but we were asked about our status several times and had to put it in writing.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Colin on March 06, 2019, 06:07:21 PM
I would advise any Brit moving permamantly to the Philippines not to break their connection with the NHS. If you go back later for treatment you may be asked to pay. It seems that we were accepted because we are fully paid and both receive a government pensions, but we were asked about our status several times and had to put it in writing.

Correction, it seems that were  accepted because I stated that we were planning to rent property which we then did. Initially when we were staying with my daughter the GP accepted us but told us that we may have to pay.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: codefreeze on March 06, 2019, 08:09:12 PM
The rules were changed some time back and there was some heated discussion about this on this forum. I would have to dig out what the rules now are. But yes, you need to be wary and make sure you have the latest info if you moved to Phils, but come back to UK for treatment etc.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Peter on March 07, 2019, 07:30:45 AM
The rules were changed some time back and there was some heated discussion about this on this forum. I would have to dig out what the rules now are. But yes, you need to be wary and make sure you have the latest info if you moved to Phils, but come back to UK for treatment etc.

Last time I checked (last year) the basic rule was, if you have been resident overseas, when you "return on a permanent basis", you have to wait 6 months from date of arrival, before you can use the NHS for free.

A&E and Casualty are, of course, always free during the 6 months, as you will be classed as a visitor/tourist and thus entitled, but GP visits, consultations, treatment and referrals must be paid for.

Really depends on how honest you are in declaring your status, but the cost of being caught is not something to take lightly, IMHO of course!

Peter
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: David690 on March 09, 2019, 08:26:18 PM
In April 2015, changes were made to way that the NHS charges overseas visitors for NHS hospital care.  These changes also affect some former UK residents of the UK, who may be required to pay for their hospital treatment costs while in England.  Free NHS is provided on the basis of the person being ordinarily resident.  It dose not depend on nationality, paying taxes, national insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having a NHS number, or owning property in UK.  People who live outside of EEA, including former UK residents should make sure they are covered by a personal healthcare insurance.  Anyone who does not have insurance will be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff for any care they receive.
Citizens who return to UK on a settled basis will be classed as ordinarily resident and will be entitled to free NHS care immediately.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: iamjames on March 09, 2019, 09:30:17 PM
For 400 years the british invaded and conquered much of the world. The message was always: Our queen is Your queen. You are part of OUR commonwealth.
The problem now is that the many millions from those countries come to the shores of the UK saying "we have come to see "OUR" Queen or we have come to see "OUR" country. Now the healthcare rules become complicated because we cannot be seen to be racist. . How do we solve this VERY complicated problem?

LOL - I am Irish so I just sit back and laugh.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Colin on March 09, 2019, 11:56:52 PM

Citizens who return to UK on a settled basis will be classed as ordinarily resident and will be entitled to free NHS care immediately.

What constitutes a 'settled basis'? Renting property, having a UK bank account????

Colin
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Peter on March 10, 2019, 12:05:26 PM
What constitutes a 'settled basis'? Renting property, having a UK bank account????

Colin

Colin.

Like a lot of government terms, "settled basis" may, probably, be defined by the government agency/interviewer on a case by case basis.

I can tell you definitely, having a UK bank account does not confer "settled basis" on the account holder.

I can only go by what a former work colleague had to go through a couple of years ago when he returned after working overseas for 25 years. He went to sign on with his local GP and had to produce his current passport as proof he was:
1) British with a right to be in country;
2) To confirm when he had returned;
3) To confirm how long he had been out of the country on a "non-resident" basis.

Eventually, after many weeks of delay, with paperwork shooting back and forth as a decision had to come from the NHS Area HQ, he was signed on. What helped, he said, was he started a new job during the process and was able to show his full time, employment contract. That really was the thing that tipped it in his favour.

The NHS 'jobsworth" he was referred to, said he would have to prove he had been in the country for 6 months, before being entitled to NHS GP and other specialist services.

Luckily, in his case, during the 8 or 9 weeks it took for a decision, he didn't need the local GP's services. His company had on-site medical facilities for their employees, which covered him for the day-to-day aches and pains.

Others will, of course, have different experiences.

Peter
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: David690 on March 10, 2019, 09:11:59 PM
What constitutes a 'settled basis'? Renting property, having a UK bank account????

Colin

No and no.  Settled means that, settled, ie settled there, as in living there.  Showing that UK has become your place of residence, I'd suggest by having been in the country for several months, it has been suggested 6 months, possibly having a job there or enrolment in full time study.  I don't think that there's an official list of ways to demonstrate your settlement status.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: lost_in_samoa on March 12, 2019, 07:48:12 AM
How do we solve this VERY complicated problem?

Rising Cost of Universal Health Care (https://freebeacon.com/politics/finnish-government-collapses-due-to-rising-cost-of-universal-health-care/)
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Peter on March 12, 2019, 03:39:06 PM
Rising Cost of Universal Health Care (https://freebeacon.com/politics/finnish-government-collapses-due-to-rising-cost-of-universal-health-care/)

From "Media Bias/Fact Check website at
< https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-free-beacon/  >

Quote" These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. "Unquote

I struggle to understand how an opinion piece which ends up trashing Democratic policies in the USA, from the Washington Free Beacon (which is classed as an extremely right biased and somewhat untrustworthy source by the independant Media Bias/Fact Check) on the Finnish Government's woes (which was caused by loosing a Parliamentary vote) has to do with a question posed by "iamjames" about the UK National Health Service.

In my experience, what may be good practice in one country, may be bad in another. And, of course, vice versa. One size does not fit all.

IMHO of course.

Peter
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: lost_in_samoa on March 12, 2019, 04:10:08 PM
 Media Bias Fact Check: Incompetent or Dishonest? (https://www.justfactsdaily.com/media-bias-fact-check-incompetent-or-dishonest/)


I struggle to understand

I know you do. 

I suspect that the OP and other respondents struggle with it too.  And Jimmy-me-boyo voiced the question.  Which is why I quoted him.

Universal health care systems are a scam.  A Ponzi scheme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme) to be exact.

They only function as long as the payments into the system exceed the payout, and admin costs.   

Eventually .... after lots of rule clarifying, eligibility granting, taxing, enforcing, people dying, wailing, speechifying, and gnashing of teeth ....  they collapse.   

If you take the time to look beyond the kindergarten level you will see that all of the collective health systems on the globe are failing for essentially the same reasons.  More going out than coming in.

In my experience .... history does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.   Geography has very little bearing on the outcome.

The human race has tried this over and over and over and ...... Finland is just the example  ..... from this week.

So in direct answer to Jimmy and the other thread participants ........  don't rely on, or participate in, a system that is defrauding you and going to fail.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Peter on March 13, 2019, 03:18:04 PM
Media Bias Fact Check: Incompetent or Dishonest? (https://www.justfactsdaily.com/media-bias-fact-check-incompetent-or-dishonest/)


I know you do. 

I suspect that the OP and other respondents struggle with it too.  And Jimmy-me-boyo voiced the question.  Which is why I quoted him.
Universal health care systems are a scam.  A Ponzi sch
eme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme) to be exact.

They only function as long as the payments into the system exceed the payout, and admin costs.   

Eventually .... after lots of rule clarifying, eligibility granting, taxing, enforcing, people dying, wailing, speechifying, and gnashing of teeth ....  they collapse.   

If you take the time to look beyond the kindergarten level you will see that all of the collective health systems on the globe are failing for essentially the same reasons.  More going out than coming in.

In my experience .... history does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.   Geography has very little bearing on the outcome.

The human race has tried this over and over and over and ...... Finland is just the example  ..... from this week.

So in direct answer to Jimmy and the other thread participants ........  don't rely on, or participate in, a system that is defrauding you and going to fail.

Seems like it's situation normal. Slag off the posters, then try to justify it with your own prejudices.

Peter
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: lost_in_samoa on March 13, 2019, 03:30:04 PM
Seems like it's situation normal. Attack the posters, then try to justify it with your own prejudices

Sounds familar. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axE83zcx6wY)
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Colin on March 13, 2019, 05:35:14 PM
No and no.  Settled means that, settled, ie settled there, as in living there.  Showing that UK has become your place of residence, I'd suggest by having been in the country for several months, it has been suggested 6 months, possibly having a job there or enrolment in full time study.  I don't think that there's an official list of ways to demonstrate your settlement status.
If you rent property, the local council will put you on the voting register. I would have thought that this would go a long way towards being shown as settled. The whole system seems a bit vague and is down to individual interpretation.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: David690 on March 14, 2019, 01:17:20 PM
If you rent property, the local council will put you on the voting register. I would have thought that this would go a long way towards being shown as settled. The whole system seems a bit vague and is down to individual interpretation.

I don't see how being on the voting register shows that you are settled.  Pretty sure Im on the voting register but haven't been settled in UK for 40 years.  If your passport shows endless tourist visas, or a residence visa for Philippines, i think you'd have a tough time showing that you're settled in UK, until you actually take up full time residence there.
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: codefreeze on April 01, 2019, 07:54:22 PM
I don't see how being on the voting register shows that you are settled.  Pretty sure Im on the voting register but haven't been settled in UK for 40 years.  If your passport shows endless tourist visas, or a residence visa for Philippines, i think you'd have a tough time showing that you're settled in UK, until you actually take up full time residence there.

Quite right - voting register doesn't prove residency, or more precisely that you are "ordinarily resident", which is the **eligibility criteria for NHS treatment**.

So, what they are trying to avoid, for example, is someone who has lived in Philippines (and so not been ordinarily resident in UK) whizzing back home for some free treatment and then whizzing back to Philippines again.

Basically if you are are a British Citizen living in the UK for more than just a holiday, and can prove that (job, house, rent, utility bills etc) you are entitled to free NHS. If you are not a British Citizen there are a few more hoops as there's proving you are actually entitled to be here in the first place - which you might be asked about...

There is an in-depth document here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/730141/Ways_in_which_people_can_be_lawfully_resident_in_the.pdf

But it is simpler for British Citizens as they have "right of abode", so if you can prove you are settled on a longer term basis that's all you need. So how to prove you are settled on a longer term basis? There seems to be no hard and fast rules as living arrangements can be quite varied. For example, if you've rented a place for 12 months and have a job that's probably enough. If you are retired, but have taken on a rented place, or are living at home and have utility bills and bills that show you are actually living in UK, etc, that's also enough. If, however you are in temporary accommodation (AirBnB, or staying with a relative) that would probably be a little bit suspect, as you might not be "ordinarily resident". Likewise, bank account would not be enough, as you could have one in UK but be usually resident in Philippines.

I guess it's down to the individual to prove their intentions...
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Peter on April 02, 2019, 02:20:03 PM
If you rent property, the local council will put you on the voting register. I would have thought that this would go a long way towards being shown as settled. The whole system seems a bit vague and is down to individual interpretation.

Colin.

Ever so slightly off NHS topic. But no too far off.  :)

Are you sure that the local councils have the power or authority to place you on the Electoral Roll? The last time I was registered as a voter (Scarborough in 1982) I had to personally apply to the Local Electoral Officer, to go on the Roll, submitting with my application proof I was permanently residing in the voting ward/area, as that was the Electoral Law at the time.

IMHO, if a third party (Council etc.) has the power to place someone on the roll 'in toto', then that could possibly lead to electoral corruption. particularly if the individual so placed knew nothing about the use of his/her name.  "Ghost voters" could then be involved.

Peter
Title: Re: UK NHS
Post by: Colin on April 03, 2019, 03:11:10 PM
Perhap a slight correction, when I started to rent, the council sent me a form to return to  the electoral officer who then included us on the electoral register. We were not asked for any proof of residence.