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Author Topic: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?  (Read 10647 times)

Offline Hank

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2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« on: January 03, 2021, 05:01:55 PM »
Wondering about 2021 Phils family incomes .. what would you say?


Offline folkerts

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2021, 07:39:32 PM »
I have made a little search about it and I think the income inequality in Phillippines, unfortunately, is a complete phenomenon for the economics... Although, according to UN Development Programme data US's unequal distribution rates are higher, which is odd. Also, I think the data favors some of the EU countries because my brother recently bought a property in Greece and he says that the income inequality rates are worse than most of the EU countries but according to the data there is no such thing in Greece. As for the Phillippines, seems like the income distribution is even more unequal in the regions like Visayas and Mindanao. Most of the Filipinos I have talked with show EDSA Revolution and bad education as the main reason.

Offline M.C.A.

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2021, 06:26:55 PM »
Hank I live on Luzon and I think something is missing from this chart because there are 106 million citizens in the Philippines and Luzon has 53.3 million so Lol...  anyway as a break down in our community the percentages seem correct.
My views would be from someone who lives out in the province close to in-laws on a pension.  Norwegian and French heritage.

Offline lost_in_samoa

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2021, 04:26:11 PM »
I have made a little search about it and I think the income inequality in Phillippines, unfortunately, is a complete phenomenon for the economics...

I'm still struggling with the concept of "income inequality".  Tell me .... just how does that work?

Case in point.

Last week I wanted to hire a man to do some simple painting for me.  Nothing complicated.  Work that I've done a thousand times.  Work that, as a child, taught me how to work.

Anyhoo ... the wife and I amble down to local kagawad and ask him if he knows someone who wants a day of trabajo.   He says he does but needs to check with the applicant first.  OK fine.

For purposes of this let's call him Tito-boy.  The next day the Kagawad and Tito-boy show up.  After introductions, we climb up the domes and detail the work to be done.  Roll some paint on and be sure to sou-sou it into any cracks or but-buts.

Then we negotiated wages.  Local going rate plus 25%.  We, the wife and I, make clear that work started on Lunes at 0800.  He was welcome to have a libre meal with us.


Pretty sweet deal.  Easy no brainer work,  bigger that usual pay, free snacks and a meal.


Well Monday rolls around and I am out on the street with my coffee waiting ..... and waiting ..... and waiting.   Finally at 1000 I give up and start the job myself.  Finished it too.


The next morning,  Tuesday,  at 0830 Tito-boy starts banging on my gate.  He is here, ready and raring to go to work.

I used to get pissed and this sort of stuff, but truth be known I've been here too long and am callused to it now.  So I look up over the closed gateway and tell him ongapo trabajo.

He gets angry and starts yelling,  that's when I get a whiff of Red Horse and Bagoong.  So I act apologetic and tell him that I already finished the work and do not have any work for him.  So sorry.

My guess is that on Sunday night he gathered all of his Pare's at the whetting shed and they had a party to celebrate his good fortune. 

Probably bought the beer and snacks on credit from the Sari Sari store.  And he woke up late, hung over in the middle of the work day, and decided not to send any word our way.


So the question I have is ........  what is income inequality?

« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 04:37:47 PM by lost_in_samoa »

Offline Hestecrefter

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2021, 01:52:54 AM »
I'm still struggling with the concept of "income inequality".  Tell me .... just how does that work?

Case in point.

Very interesting anecdote there brother lost.

But I am not sure your case in point is truly a case in point.  I see it as addressing another issue.  Perhaps better described as self-induced poverty.  You offered an opportunity to earn and Tito-boy acted in an irresponsible fashion and against his own interests in his conspicuous default.

May I ask, just what is the "going rate" in your locale?  You offered that plus 25%.  Very sporting of you.  But addressing the question of the going rate might help address whether there might have been a case of income inequality. 

Now I confess that I have made a study of the concept of "income inequality" for all of 5 minutes, with google as my teacher.  Not a very scholarly approach.

Seems to me that the notion of income inequality is something that operates within the borders of most countries, including the U.S.  My research turned up this:

In 2019, the top 20% of the population earned 51.9% of all U.S. income.3 Their average household income was $254,449. The richest of the rich, the top 5%, earned 23% of all income. Their average household income was $451,122.

The bottom 20% only earned 3.1% of the nation’s income. The lower earner's average household income was $15,286.4 Most low-wage workers receive no health insurance, sick days, or pension plans from their employers. They can't get ill and have no hope of retiring. That creates health care inequality, which increases the cost of medical care for everyone.


My source for the above:

https://www.thebalance.com/income-inequality-in-america-3306190

By that standard, income inequality in the RP does not seem to be much worse than it is in America, or many other places.  For my part, I am not sure it is right that a corporate CEO should take home, say, $1 million a year, while his housekeeper takes home $20,000.  The gap is a bit unseemly, in my view.

To me, the bigger issue is inequality across borders.  I think one need not do much research to realize that Phils wages are generally noticeably lower than wages for similar work in western countries.  That is why a lot of westerners like to visit and retire in the Phils.  Back home, our incomes were modest.  In the Phils, we look like big shots.  That has bothered me since I first set foot in the Phils more than 25 years ago.  I see people there who work hard, or who would work hard given the chance, who have almost nothing compared to me.  I know I am no better, no smarter, no more hard working than they, yet I can live like a prince compared to them.  Not a feeling I enjoy.  Am I deserving and they are not?  I don't think so.

In the Phils, the international income inequality is manifest in the whole OFW scene.  Unlike the indolent Tito-boy, OFWs (and I have met quite a few), typically have tried hard to get ahead in the Phils.  They have gone to university, conducted diligent job searches, yet have been able to secure jobs there paying more than maybe P400 a day.  So, they go to the Middle East, Hong Kong, etc., to earn maybe $600 a month, for working hard for long hours indeed, while sacrificing any family life.

Offline Hestecrefter

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2021, 02:45:08 AM »
Lost,

Since posting as I did above I realize, upon more mature consideration of the vexing issue on income inequality, that I may have misapprehended the thrust of your post.  It may be, perhaps, to your observation, that Tito-boy is the poster boy for the lower echelons of income distribution in the Phils and that most of its denizens are just like him - with greater attachment to the demon rum (or Red Horse) and good times with the boys than to any attachment to the workforce.  So, in short, most of those on the lower rungs are there by choice.  I am not sure that I would agree with that, but, as I have said, I really do not have much empirical evidence to back up a considered opinion.  Just sitting here on a Sunday morning, overlooking a calm sea, having coffee, engaged in divers musings.

As an aside, do you think it was wise to have written off Tito-boy summarily?  I mean, sa lunes ng umaga, maybe his carabao broke down, or he developed a galloping case of Covid-19, 20 or 21, or some such calamity intervened.  Yes, the next day, it became clear that he screwed up.  But now, having bought Red Horse and pulutan for his barkada on credit at the local sari sari, he has been shamed (as well as being out of pocket).  From what I have seen, Filipinos generally don't take well to a loss of face.  That could lead to trouble in some parts of the Phils where I have lived. 

Offline lost_in_samoa

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2021, 05:14:20 AM »
that I may have misapprehended the thrust of your post.

HC ....  I believe you have missed the Forrest.

Very sporting of you.

The amount offered is immaterial.  He exercised his free will as an individual human by accepting it.

But now, ......... , he has been shamed

Who is the architect of the shame?  The fruits of his celebratory hubris are his wages.

 Strategic thought matters.

 



What is "income inequality"? 

This thread lists figures that described how it is, who has it, where it is.   But do not define what it is.  Think about it like an engineer.

Obviously there are lower, middle, and upper bounds being described.

In order to measure something you have to have agreement.  There is a universal agreement that a centimeter is such and such length.  Using that convention we can now estimate distance the world over.

Who set the metrics of "equality"?  Where did they set them?  Subsistence level?  Did they ask for our input on this variable?

If my memory serves, you are in pretty good circumstances.   What if your lifestyle exceeds the adjudicated level? 

What if the social contract decides, for you, that your ability in this life will be held on par with Tito?


Is that not slavery?




 Frank Dikötter and Robert Conquest  have written extensively on the consequences of abdicating the responsibility of coping with "income inequality".   


Perhaps you will find them to be more informative than random Google searches.



Offline Hestecrefter

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2021, 06:23:28 AM »
HC ....  I believe you have missed the Forrest.
....
If my memory serves, you are in pretty good circumstances.   What if your lifestyle exceeds the adjudicated level? 

....

 Frank Dikötter and Robert Conquest  have written extensively on the consequences of abdicating the responsibility of coping with "income inequality".   

Perhaps you will find them to be more informative than random Google searches.

I'll accept I missed the forest, or the trees, or both.

Yes, I consider myself to be in "pretty good circumstances".  Right now, among the legions of YouTube "vloggers" who claim to be experts in living in the Phils, moving there, retiring there, etc., is one who, like many, says one can live well in most parts of the Phils on USD1,500 per month.  He suggests that even if one's income exceeds that, one should "live small" and pay no more than about $200 a month for rent and so on.  He speaks of what he sees as the particularly well-heeled as having maybe $5,000 a month to spend. But, even then, he suggests "living small", to have extra money for "other things".  Such as what?  Stuff it into a bank account?  Or buy more things?  He and most vloggers speak against that.  The sage advice seems to be to own no more than you can pack into a suitcase and be free to walk away on a moment's notice.  Not my style.

So I probably won't move back to the Phils.  If I lived up to my income, I would find myself a tad embarrassed.  I would be considered by the locals as mayabang.  As I said above, I feel somewhat guilty for having so much more than even most of the wealthier Filipinos, when I see myself as no more worthy or deserving than they are.  So I feel more comfortable where I am, around those who are similarly circumstanced.  I am not particularly attracted to moving there and pretending to be poor.  If I wanted to do that, I'd move back to LA, give away what I have, and move into a homeless camp near Venice Beach.  More agreeable climate there.

I think I'll pass on your recommended reading.  Not really appealing to me.  I was prepared to spend 5 minutes on google today, but that about exhausts my appetite for the topic.  I defer to your much greater knowledge and ability to address the topic.  I erred in posting here on a topic on which I am ill-equipped to present cogent and compelling expertise, knowledge, insight or anything else, apart from what I called some random musings.  So I shall bow out, duly chastened.

Offline lost_in_samoa

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2021, 06:41:37 AM »
So I shall bow out, duly chastened.

Sorry I did not mean to put you off.

Just watchin the world around me and growing 'maters.

Offline Hank

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2021, 04:59:44 PM »
Regarding Income Inequality in the Philippines, and being the original poster, allow one to thank everyone whom chose to write on this matter. It has resulted in some honest, interesting posts. 

Regarding the thread, maybe Wikipedia may provide a somewhat fair and reasonable summary?

Quotinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_Philippines


"According to World Bank Director Motoo Konishi, the Philippines had become a "rising tiger" economy in East Asia, especially during the 2010–2011 fiscal years. Also the recent gross domestic product (GDP) figures for the Philippines show that the economy has been growing steadily at a rate of 6.8% over this decade.

However the benefits of this economic growth have not yet trickled down to the poorer segments of the population, as seen with the malnutrition and poverty that continues to plague the country, and this despite the fact that the economy still seems to be growing.

According to research, the poorest 20% of the population have a 4.45% share of the national income, while the top 20% has a 76.5% share of the income. Research showing that the poorest 20% of people earn 14,022 pesos, while the richest 20% of people earn 176,863 pesos, also suggests that the distribution of wealth is uneven in the Philippines.

Compared to other Countries

Out of 149 countries, the Philippines ranked approximately 60th in terms of wealth inequality; with list-neighbor countries such as Indonesia and Micronesia. Ukraine and Iceland topped the list as the worlds most equal countries, whereas South Africa was on the opposite side of the list.

Corruption in the Philippines

A main cause of income inequality in the Philippines is its political culture. It is a spoils system which is based on relationships between leaders of political parties to other politicians and local elites. Thus, this patron-client system has created a system where a small number of powerful and wealthy families are in control of the political system.

Due to this, powerful politicians are able to fill appointive government positions with their allies and also preventing more deserving individuals from serving. There have been many examples in past history of the corruption that is taking place.

Income Tax Inequality

Income tax also becomes a factor to income inequality, because according to the Tax Management Association of the Philippines, Filipino workers pay the highest income tax in the entire Association of South-East Asian Nations (ASEAN) region.

An average Filipino worker is taxed 32% as long as he is earning more than the minimum wage. The minimum wage earners are the only ones who are tax-exempt. Corporations are taxed less than individual earners at a tax rate of 30%.

Education Inequality

Based on the 2013 Functional Literacy, Education and Mass Media Survey, which had a sample size of 36 million Filipinos aged from 6 to 24, fully 19.2 percent of respondents cited "insufficient family income" as their top reason for not attending school."


End Wikipedia Quote.




Offline lost_in_samoa

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Re: 2020/21 Philippine Family Incomes?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2021, 11:36:44 AM »