Living In The Philippines Forum

Itís Your Money => Building in the Philippines => Topic started by: mikek1 on July 14, 2012, 11:22:55 PM

Title: Solar Panels.
Post by: mikek1 on July 14, 2012, 11:22:55 PM
In the Uk many houses are now installing solar panels as a way of generating electricty,and saving money.I have not seen this method in the Philippines and wondering why,with the high cost of electricity it is not used.
We have a new built 4b/3br house in Mangaldan,Pangasinan. The house is in a sub-division so has no overhanging obtrusions ,such as trees. We also have no immeadiate neighbours so there would be direct Sun light to our roof which is 2 story high.
Have any members experience or advice on solar panels.Eventhough the initial cost might be high,with the general expense of electricty in the Philipppines it must soon become a \'must have\'
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: RUFUS on July 15, 2012, 02:29:21 AM
Batteries are not that expensive...
You can get a Trojan 6v deep-cycle lift battery for about $150us.
And if you are not trying to light up Times Square, you should be able to run an LED lighting system and a small car stereo for a week+ with 2 of them.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BingColin on July 15, 2012, 08:17:22 AM
It is not possible to feed back into the grid in the Philippines, so any small system can only be used for backup in place of a generator or perhaps something like night-time external lighting. Anything else could involve some form of dual wiring system. The best answer here would be a full roof/house system and become independent from the mains, but that would be expensive with a long payback time. It has been used here on Palawan on a house the other side of the mountains with no access to mains.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: gbrown6usa on July 21, 2012, 06:55:24 PM
My 3 bedroom home in CDO runs me $50US on a bad month, 1/5th of what I paid in the states.  I don\'t see it as a high cost.  Thats with aircon.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: wildbill on January 19, 2013, 08:24:40 PM
I know this post is old but I want to add a little bit.there are many opions here for solar here is one site that may help you its a local dealer here in philippines.scroll down..http://ph.california-electronics.com/products_search.php?search_category_id=387&search_string=solar+panels&search=+Go+
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on January 19, 2013, 09:48:29 PM
I've seen other commercials like that on You Tube, but that site was interesting. Not too bad for a 1.5 HP split type A/C and the solar panel shown in the videeo clip is not very large let alone it was made in the Philippines. I'm just curious how large the batteries and it's AC/DC invertor are? Just read the answer to that below the video clip, solar aircon does NOT use solar panels and batteries as most people think. While solar power generators use solar panels and batteries to power up lighting, computer and other loads, the solar aircon is entirely different technology. The solar collector is basically the same as what is found in solar water heaters. During the day, the solar collector will receive and store the sun's heat energy inside it. The sun's heat trapped/stored inside the collector will convert liquid Freon into gas. The resulting liquid-to-gas conversion results in cooling. A circulating fan inside the fan unit distributes or circulates the cool air as in the case of conventional aircon. During the early hours of night, the trapped or saved sun's energy is still used to cool. Just hope for good clear sunny weather! Eventually I may look into it! P38,000 sounds like a lot of money to your average person, but for that type of solar A/C setup it just may pay for it itself in just a few years as long it doesn't break down too soon, because the repair service charges may be over the top and may not be cost effective in a short period of time! Anyway, it's good to see progress of that nature in the Philippines!
Only if electric vehicles can come down in price, that would be a winner too!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on April 29, 2013, 09:48:53 PM
You can feed power back into the Phil's grid.  It's just so few are doing it.  I have a customer who sells solar systems that do just that. 
2 weeks ago, I made a prefabricated solar panel holder for some place in Davao.  It has a galvanized and powder coated weather proof box, and everything sits as one unit including batteries.  Just run a 220v line to the box and you got electric.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on April 29, 2013, 10:12:36 PM
You can feed power back into the Phil's grid. It's just so few are doing it.  I have a customer who sells solar systems that do just that. 
So why is that? One would think that there's a huge demand for a cheaper source of electricity in the Philippines! Solar panels should be popping up all over the place! Why isn't more interest generated here? I'm sure there's a lot of interest if one would just advertise it correctly of what it cost to make and who the reliable manufacturers are and where! I know they are all over, just look on the internet!

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Solar+panel+companies+in+the+Philippines&btnG=Google+Search
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on April 29, 2013, 11:19:31 PM
It's just so few are doing it. 
So why is that?

Cost is the primary drawback, IMHO.  If you look at how much the solar panel industry has changed just in the last 5 years with more efficient units that run cooler, etc, the cost is still way ahead of the payback. 

I do see better things coming however.  As newer more efficient panels are developed, as well as cheaper manufacturing processes, more people will be able to afford solar electric systems.  JMHO  :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on April 30, 2013, 08:17:28 AM
  Mangaldan,Pangasinan.
I put in a large off-grid solar system just down the road from you in Brgy Imelda.
So if it was off the grid! What happened in Mangaldan, Pangasinan and Brgy Imelda?
What was all that about batteries by LIS, what's the application? For a light bulb was it? AC or DC? Must be DC with all them batteries! ;)
This post was back in July 2012!
  ??? :o
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Frosty on April 30, 2013, 10:53:39 AM
L.I.S.
I just replaced 8-6VDC batteries in one of my traffic control boards they have solar panel to charge the batteries, I only got 5 years out of the batteries. Replacement cost was almost $900.00.

Tell us more about the system that you put in.
Is solar your only source of power?
Do you send power back into the grid?
Other then batteries have you had any othe maintenance problems?
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on April 30, 2013, 11:47:09 PM
LiS,

You certainly know your solar power!  And yes, I bet your barangay is happy on sunny days!  ;)

If it don't move I whack it with a stick and then plug a charger into its butt or hose it down.
Bwahahahahaaa!!  I love it!  Exhibiting your engineering skills in every way possible!  ;) :D :D :) :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on May 01, 2013, 07:03:59 AM
You can rejuvenate lead acid batteries using a pulse charger.  Not all batteries will come back, but usually half will. They work by breaking up the sulfur on the plates. 

http://www.diy-electronic-projects.com/p75-Pulse-Charger-for-reviving-tired-Lead-Acid-batteries

I would love to have me some nickel batteries.  The open surce ecology project has proposed open sourcing a build method but sadly the leadership there is rather lacking to complete any project
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Frosty on May 01, 2013, 10:52:46 AM
L.I.S.
I can't tell you alot about about the traffic control boards I work on most of the info has been lost to the wind and weather, What I do know is one has a 75 watt solar panel and has 8-6 volt batteries it is a 12 volt system. the other two have 40 watt panels and 2-12 volt batteries also a 12 volt system, the smaller ones have 25 LED lights, the larger one has about 100 LED lights. I have not had any problems other then needing to replace batteries about every 5 years.
 
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Pulalei on May 01, 2013, 04:24:18 PM
This is too high tech for me but you got me curious when you mentioned your problem  finding good distilled water. In the late 80's prior to immigrating here in the US, I worked for the government. At one time we have an outbreak of foot and mouth diseases around the country and we have to do a massive animal vaccination. At the time  we used vials in powdered form and mixed it with distilled water...then we ran out of distilled water. I am not sure how it came about but we were told to use COCONUT water as an alternate for distilled water. Sounds funny huh but hey..think about it...coconut water is the cleanest water on earth!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BingColin on May 01, 2013, 05:51:51 PM
This is too high tech for me but you got me curious when you mentioned your problem  finding good distilled water. In the late 80's prior to immigrating here in the US, I worked for the government. At one time we have an outbreak of foot and mouth diseases around the country and we have to do a massive animal vaccination. At the time  we used vials in powdered form and mixed it with distilled water...then we ran out of distilled water. I am not sure how it came about but we were told to use COCONUT water as an alternate for distilled water. Sounds funny huh but hey..think about it...coconut water is the cleanest water on earth!

Coconut water may be bug free etc but it does contain other things

quote:
Coconut water has a high potassium content and contains antioxidants. It also contains cytokinins which promote plant cell division and growth. Other biologically active ingredients in coconut water include L-arginine, ascorbic acid, magnesium etc.

I don't think it would be the ideal thing to put in a lead acid battery.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Pulalei on May 02, 2013, 03:50:38 AM
Ok got it. Coconut water...wonderful fluid for life huh. Better not waste on batteries then. Thanks!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on May 02, 2013, 04:50:00 AM
Only drink the young coconut (buko).  The older coconut milk doesn't taste as good as fresh buko juice and acts as a laxative.


Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: medic3500 on May 02, 2013, 10:13:40 AM
Ahhhh laxative what's that? Is that similar to relax? lol
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: John Edwards on May 02, 2013, 09:59:14 PM
 Similar, but it only effects certain parts of your body, But better not get too relaxed, or youíll wind up doing laundry and a little house cleaning.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Pulalei on May 03, 2013, 03:56:45 PM
Similar, but it only effects certain parts of your body, But better not get too relaxed, or youíll wind up doing laundry and a little house cleaning.

And if you suffered dehydration as a result...revert back to drinking young coconut water! Like Manong Colin said it's high in potassium, magnesium, etc, etc....it's the natural intravenous fluid or to be precise... coconut IV.

I better get my butt out of here....sorry guys for interrupting with my silly talk.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on May 03, 2013, 06:20:15 PM
Similar, but it only effects certain parts of your body, But better not get too relaxed, or youíll wind up doing laundry and a little house cleaning.

And if you suffered dehydration as a result...revert back to drinking young coconut water! Like Manong Colin said it's high in potassium, magnesium, etc, etc....it's the natural intravenous fluid or to be precise... coconut IV.

I better get my butt out of here....sorry guys for interrupting with my silly talk.
I've been dehydrated a few times...not fun. What helps me is a 1.5L bottle of Gatorade. Yes it almost P70 but it works. God Bless.....
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on May 04, 2013, 12:45:39 AM
I've been dehydrated a few times...not fun. What helps me is a 1.5L bottle of Gatorade. Yes it almost P70 but it works. God Bless.....


Fresh buko juice is higher in electrolytes than Gatorade and tastes better!   :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: wildbill on May 04, 2013, 08:39:33 PM
yes Buko dont have all that salt in it like Gatorade does sorry steve I cant eat lots of salt yoost to love the gatorade drink years ago when I was a young lad.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on May 04, 2013, 11:07:15 PM
It's getting funnier with all this talk about Gatorade, young buko juice and solar panels! Oh yeah, and batteries too! ??? :o ;)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BingColin on May 05, 2013, 09:08:36 AM
It's getting funnier with all this talk about Gatorade, young buko juice and solar panels! Oh yeah, and batteries too! ??? :o ;)

To get back on topic, you could clean the solar panels with Gatorade, but maybe buko juice would be better  :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on May 05, 2013, 03:39:13 PM
I saw a new way of making solar panels the other day.  It was developed by a MIT engineer who happens to have a lab up the road from me  he set up here cause of the lower costs compared to the US.  His method has no soldering and a full panel can be assembled in a hour or 2 at the most, with practice a couple kilowatts could be assembled in a hour.

http://solarpocketfactory.com/pages/forum#/panel-assembly-techniques/

For water distillation, I have a solar powered water distiller design.  8000 pesos should cover the materials.  Makes a gallon of Distilled water a day on cloudy days, more on sunny days.

http://www.solaqua.com/solstils1.html this one is made from fiberglass.  Although a plywood box sealed with black silicone caulk will work just as well.  The black silicone can be spread with a putty knife like bondo to seal everything.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on May 05, 2013, 04:43:04 PM
The Open Source Ecology tractor has actually turned out to be kind of a disaster.  It is very unreliable.  Same goes with the other projects.  A lot of half baked ideas, not much completed.

I had one member of the project come here to Phils from Kansas a few months ago.  He told me they got 400k in the bank and cant complete anything that works.  He spent 6 months at the FeF lab.
As a former 'true fan" funder of the project I am rather dissapointed as to the return on my investment at open source ecology.  I did meet a lot of people thru there however and our spinoff projects like the brick making machine, cook stoves, and the like are coming along well. 

My cook stove project uses wood chips and burns with a blue flame.  fill it up with dry wood chips, turn on the switch and light.  start cooking in 2 minutes, and can boil 500ml of water in 3 minutes from room temp.  A full load burns for 45min to one hour.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Pulalei on May 06, 2013, 02:06:09 PM
The Open Source Ecology tractor has actually turned out to be kind of a disaster.  It is very unreliable.  Same goes with the other projects.  A lot of half baked ideas, not much completed.

I had one member of the project come here to Phils from Kansas a few months ago.  He told me they got 400k in the bank and cant complete anything that works.  He spent 6 months at the FeF lab.
As a former 'true fan" funder of the project I am rather dissapointed as to the return on my investment at open source ecology.  I did meet a lot of people thru there however and our spinoff projects like the brick making machine, cook stoves, and the like are coming along well. 

My cook stove project uses wood chips and burns with a blue flame.  fill it up with dry wood chips, turn on the switch and light.  start cooking in 2 minutes, and can boil 500ml of water in 3 minutes from room temp.  A full load burns for 45min to one hour.

Manong Metz....your cook stove sounds wonderful. I wonder if your stove can use rice hull...those mounds of stuff you see outside a rice mill. If it does....I would think you hit a gold mine! And you will be helping a lot of poor people in the rice growing regions.Gas tanks for cooking now cost 900 pesos and rice hulls are free! But Even if it uses only wood chips, I could sell it like hot cakes in my province that is....if I am there! How much you're selling for the stove and the brick making machine?
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on May 07, 2013, 05:30:41 AM
We tried it with rice husk. Problem with rice husk is the large amount of dirt and the high ash content (not fly ash the other ash) along with the shapes heels from achieving a good air fuel ratio.

I could have gone with the Belonio design, but the goal was to reduce costs and materials.  Rice husk could be used idiot was pelletized however the energy yield compared to wood chips is low.  My studies tell me that I need a short fat stove.  People are afraid a tall stove will fall over even of you have a huge base.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Pulalei on May 07, 2013, 05:58:40 AM
Ok...I guess until someone like you invented the perfect inexpensive cooking stove prototype, we village folks stick to gathering firewood in the mountain like we always do to cook our food when the shellane gas tank runs out and no money to buy a replacement.  I do appreciate the fact that someone like you or your group are trying to help find ways to make our life as Filipinos a little easier. Thank you Manong Metz.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on May 07, 2013, 01:03:51 PM
Well I do have a rocket stove design I have been working on also.  I set a lot of fires in the back yard, trying to get a good economical design.   

I think I have gotten there now though.  I posted the CAD files awhile back, but it takes a CNC machne or a good length of tubing to make.  I got it down to around 500 pesos materials.  I thought I had a marketer for it, but the guy keeps insisting on redesigns and making it cheaper, which then do not work.

It works well with wood, lights easy and you can cook a entire meal on a couple sticks. 

I prob will release this one as open source like I did my brick making machine.  Funny, my brick making machine is used in Africa, but no one here is interested even though you can make a brick for 4 pesos with it.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Rob from Mel on May 07, 2013, 05:10:56 PM
Metz , we have many mud brick homes here in Victoria , Australia defineatly in with arty and green crowd anything up to and above 2000 square feet , had not thought of this for down Digos way with a wide verandah , but it is now on my thought list , also some of the more adventurous are using a rammed earth style wall in leu of mud bricks , regards Robert .
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on May 08, 2013, 03:45:48 AM
Should we just trash the topic on this discussion?  I mean, we're now discussing stoves, bricks, mud walls and rammed earth buildings!   :o ???

SOLAR PANELS, SOLAR PANELS, SOLAR PANELS!!!!  If you want to discuss stoves, bricks, rocks, wood or anything else, start a new topic please!   :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on December 24, 2013, 03:27:10 PM
Hi guys, first post so please be gentle.
Solar panels are of particular interest to me.
Here in Australia, I have 5.7 kW's on my roof that generate an average of roughtly 25 kWh  per day.
I have not paid a single cent to the power company for two years..... and they have so far given me over $4000.00 in solar credits ($$$)  for the privilege  8)
AFAIK, there is no reason why a correctly engineered system cannot feed back into the grid.
If you have one of those "spinning disc" power meters, all that will happen ( as long as the sun is shining and your house is using less power than the panels are generating, the excess power will flow into the grid thru your meter, spinning it in reverse.

An ideal 1:1 ratio !!

The grid effectively becomes your storage "battery" ( at no cost to you )
Your excess gets "stored in the grid" , when it rains or the sun isn't shining, you just suck them kW's back out of the grid !

I am not sure what happens if a "digital" meter is installed....... some experimentation would be required.

Just because the power company ( Meralco ) is not setup for it, does not mean it cannot happen. I have had a few discussions with them, all to no avail........

I am still toying with the idea of setting up a domestic solar PV business in the Philippines. I can see a substantial untapped market.

My research to date has proved that
A: Meralco has no idea
B: The few solar companies that do exist have no idea.
C: A golden opportunity awaits !!  :D
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on December 24, 2013, 09:45:08 PM
Just because the power company ( Meralco ) is not setup for it, does not mean it cannot happen. I have had a few discussions with them, all to no avail........

My research to date has proved that
A: Meralco has no idea
B: The few solar companies that do exist have no idea.
C: A golden opportunity awaits !!  :D
I am not programmed to respond in that area!  :P
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: iamjames on December 25, 2013, 01:39:58 AM
I am still toying with the idea of setting up a domestic solar PV business in the Philippines. I can see a substantial untapped market.

My research to date has proved that
A: Meralco has no idea
B: The few solar companies that do exist have no idea.
C: A golden opportunity awaits !!  :D

And if the present price increases go through that opportunity will be far more attractive. Go for it.

P.S. - The REAL Leinster? Carlow here.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on December 25, 2013, 06:14:58 AM
P.S. - The REAL Leinster? Carlow here.

Define "real" ??

My Leinster is some 400 km north of Kalgoorlie.... so pretty much the middle of WA (Western Australia)
Used to live there, now I just FIFO to work there.

And, It's a long way from ANYWHERE !!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: iamjames on December 25, 2013, 12:45:04 PM
LOL - must have been some Paddy who named that. The real Leinster is a province in Ireland - my place. Best rugby team in Europe. 
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: fred on December 27, 2013, 06:03:35 AM
Hi guys, first post so please be gentle.
Solar panels are of particular interest to me.
Here in Australia, I have 5.7 kW's on my roof that generate an average of roughtly 25 kWh  per day.
I have not paid a single cent to the power company for two years..... and they have so far given me over $4000.00 in solar credits ($$$)  for the privilege  8)
AFAIK, there is no reason why a correctly engineered system cannot feed back into the grid.
If you have one of those "spinning disc" power meters, all that will happen ( as long as the sun is shining and your house is using less power than the panels are generating, the excess power will flow into the grid thru your meter, spinning it in reverse.

An ideal 1:1 ratio !!

The grid effectively becomes your storage "battery" ( at no cost to you )
Your excess gets "stored in the grid" , when it rains or the sun isn't shining, you just suck them kW's back out of the grid !

I am not sure what happens if a "digital" meter is installed....... some experimentation would be required.

Just because the power company ( Meralco ) is not setup for it, does not mean it cannot happen. I have had a few discussions with them, all to no avail........

I am still toying with the idea of setting up a domestic solar PV business in the Philippines. I can see a substantial untapped market.

My research to date has proved that
A: Meralco has no idea
B: The few solar companies that do exist have no idea.
C: A golden opportunity awaits !!  :D

Since the storm here (and 3 weeks without power) I have been doing a bit of research in regards getting off grid here with the use of solar panels.
There is a Philippine law that allows grid ties..One problem is though that the electric companies here have mostly done away with the old meters that turn backwards when you return power to the grid..
The law stipulates that we have to deal with the power supplier and they are supposed to fit an additional meter.. The existing meter is import and the new one, export..(the power we export to the grid) I`m not sure if we can sell the power back to them at the same price we get it for but guess what?...I doubt it.
A large battery bank would be essential for me as I want to eradicate brown outs and power cuts due to typhoons etc and the ever rising costs of KWH`s here.
We have a small private company here that can install a 3kw system for around 500K Pesos.. I`m looking at ways to import panels and inverters etc from China in BB boxes..Perhaps from Hong kong..
Not sure if this is possible but if anyone has info on that then please give it to us on this thread!!
Cheers,
Fred.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: fred on December 27, 2013, 06:12:03 AM
If you are interested in grid ties in the R.P check out this presentation.. A lot of good info..
http://portal.sliderocket.com/BTIEO/net-metering (http://portal.sliderocket.com/BTIEO/net-metering)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 27, 2013, 06:18:35 AM
There's a Filipina member on here from Las Vegas and she and her husband has a solar panel business and I'm sure she has connections here in the Philippines of suppliers and or installers, but off hand I can't remember her name.
I too am interested to know more about building or getting installed a solar system suitable to our electricity needs! For a poor country such as the Philippines, their cost for gas and electricity is outrageous! Something has to be done about it sooner rather than later! 
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 27, 2013, 06:30:24 AM
Looks like that net-metering is far from being a reality! Private owners and or the private individuals will just have to take it upon themselves to be self sufficient from not relying in returning power back to the grid at this point in time!
I would just like to have our own solar power system installed at a reasonable cost and pay for itself in the long run and be completely off the gird not having to rely on our local electric power company!   
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: fred on December 27, 2013, 06:30:37 AM
There's a Filipina member on here from Las Vegas and she and her husband has a solar panel business and I'm sure she has connections here in the Philippines of suppliers and or installers, but off hand I can't remember her name.
I too am interested to know more about building or getting installed a solar system suitable to our electricity needs! For a poor country such as the Philippines, their cost for gas and electricity is outrageous! Something has to be done about it sooner rather than later!

Indeed.
We were without power here for 3 weeks..How is it that my last power bill is almost the same as normal??
Only in the P.I!!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: medic3500 on December 27, 2013, 11:29:16 AM
No way one can guess what goes on in the electric companies here. My electric bill was almost two and a half times normal last month. I went ahead and paid it thinking it was the increase they had been talking about. The I get my bill this month and it is back down to its normal range. Go figure, I had not used any additional power than we normally do. Only thing I can think is somehow when they read the meters the punched the neighbors reading into my account who does run at least one AC that I'm aware of.
If and when I get out of Manila and get my own place definitely will be looking at Solar.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 27, 2013, 12:18:33 PM
We're pretty much aware of our electricity consumption, but  these constant price hikes and on everything else are outrageous! This is a poor country, how can they justify the high cost of energy?  >:( Granted that other things are low in cost, but that doesn't mean the energy companies can gouge the whole country! Sure the SC steps in now and then, but most times to no avail like the present 60 day TRO which may have no effect or help to the consumers!  ::) :o   
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BudM on December 28, 2013, 01:33:36 AM
My bill date is the 26th of each month.  Although, I don't have December in hand yet, I just checked online and it is posted.  December is 396.5 pesos less than November.  But, I had used 38 kwh less this time.  December is my seventh bill here and the only really close one on consumption I have was the August bill which was 1 kwh less although I coughed up 454 pesos less on it than the current one.

Adding to the above on this edit.  I went out to the office building today of my boss.  When I walked in, she was in the process of paying her electric bill to the guy going around collecting.  When he left, she says that along with five of the other tenants, they are raising cane about how high their electric bills are this time around.  Their reading dates are the 11th of every month.  I looked at what she had on the initial bill they give her each time, and then found out where her meter was to check and I showed her how to read it.  Then after I did the figuring I showed her that the amount only reflected an increase of 2.5 pesos per kwh.  For the whole past year, there was previously only a 0.5/kwh fluctuation at the most in between any months.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 28, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Bud,
I assume you're one in a few that's not complaining about their electric bill for December.
I would also assume that a solar powered system is far from your agenda for now! 
Frugal/smart/practical living by choice does help and also when you have a partner that
works for a living who contributes to the home, lifestyle and relationship! Way to go Bud! :o ;)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BudM on December 28, 2013, 12:44:47 PM
Thanks Art.  Yeah, it always makes things easier to have another source of income.  That is not why I went after her though.  LoL.  But, although I am not exactly complaining about the electric like she is, I don't want it to continually increase unreasonably.  I think these sharp increases or what might be more in a couple of months is short-term.  Sooner or later, the demand will drop to the point that they aren't making more than enough.  Just like the way the airlines have been sky rocketing almost the whole past year.  That happens every so often and then they get enough people not wanting to fly that it puts the hurt back on the airlines.

I do monitor costs of things though to try and adjust if it can be done and try the least amount of pain if any to a change.  I make spreadsheets for various things to make it easier and weigh things out.  Don't like throwing money away and don't like spending what I don't have to.  Few months ago, I started keeping a budget.  Never did that before but now with more responsibilities in the home, then I have ever had before, and plus the fact that money is spent out of more than just my pocket, I am keeping track of and handling everything to do with the household.

At the moment, although I am very interested in the solar route, I am not quite set up for it yet.  Have some other priorities that I am working on so it might be another year or two before I can look in to it deeper.  But yeah, I am interested.  Until then, I might buy some of your excess electricity from you once you get going if you don't want to charge me too high of a rate.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on December 29, 2013, 09:20:11 PM
My solar output for today

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217&dt=20131228&gs=3&m=1 (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217&dt=20131228&gs=3&m=1)

Nice  8)

Currently in Perth, we can get a 5kW system ( good mid tier panels and top notch inverter )  installed for about $8000 AUD   ( PHP 320,000 )   That is with quality racking, conduits, cables, breakers, enclosures etc etc.

I will try and see how much shipping to the Philippines would be from here ??.  Although, the panels come from China, and the inverter from Germany........ so shipping SHOULD be cheaper to the Phils.

The slide show from "Greenfields" clearly states that a domestic PV grid connection is possible.
In fact, there is a project currently running called the  "Million Roof Tops Solar" in the Philippines.

Mendoza Solar are doing bits and pieces, but Mr Winston Mendoza was not very willing to share any info about it with me...... Hmmm......

Raffy Concepcion [admin@solarsolutions.ph]  was very keen to discuss Solar PV, but they really don't have much of an idea of what is involved etc.

Meralco were just plain vacant on the subject !!


Guys, solar definitely works and works very well.
ROI should be sub 7 years and quality of power should be higher.

Trying to go "off grid" is nice in theory, it just does not make economic sense ATM, although trying  to eliminate the ever present threat of "brown Outs" is tempting.
Setting up an off grid system with battery storage is going to be VERY expensive....
Might be better off just puting up with the occasional brown out and being happy with significantly reduced power bills ( or even power credits if your system is sized that way )
or running a small generator ( 2 kW ) in times of brown outs ( would make much better economic sense. )
Easy to install the required mains/generator switch gear as well.

I guess time will tell.
Once people get Solar PV connected and share their experiences, the "actual" solar PV reality will be clear !
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BingColin on December 30, 2013, 08:10:13 AM
We have a solar store in Robinsons Puerto Princesa Palawan. I havenít been in it recently, but will check out the cost of a 5kw system after the holidays. The owner used to work in the Shell solar store and took over when they ceased selling solar systems. I know he has installed a full off the grid system over the far side of the island where there is no electricity.

I noticed a few days ago that NCCC hardware are selling some systems, I believe that a 1kw was around P90k but not sure. I have also seen panels in the window of CDR-King, but I imagine the quality may not be good as they tend to go for the cheaper end of prices.

I have seen solar lampposts in the local private cemetery and quite like the idea of replacing the three security lights along our drive that are on every night.


Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on December 30, 2013, 11:57:32 AM
We have a solar store in Robinsons Puerto Princesa Palawan.

I have seen solar lampposts in the local private cemetery and quite like the idea of replacing the three security lights along our drive that are on every night.


Hi Colin,
Be inerested to hear your findings from the Solar shop that you mentioned.

Like I have said, I  believe that there is a really good opportunity to setup a business doing domestic roof top solar PV in the Philippines.
The design process is quite complicated, with lots of variables that have to be factored in, but pretty easy for me as i have done a few and have a few years of experience under my belt.
The racking ( mounting ) system for the panels will need to be cyclone rated and installed as such.
The wiring will need to be an "Main Earth Neutral"  system with current leakage detection and suitably sized conductors.
Ideally, you would have two "banks" of panels ( called strings ) both inclined at about 20 degrees, one facing south east, and one facing south west. ( north east and west in Australia )
This will give a better "spread" of power production over the whole day, as opposed to having all the panels facing south, which would give maximum power production only around midday.

Warning, technical content.....
Shade, even a little bit, kills solar panel output significantly........ remember.....  NO SHADE AT ALL , NONE,  cannot express this point enough, not even the shade of a twig or piece of string !!

I am also not sure of the importation process.
Individually in BB boxes could work ???  or in the sea container that we will bring all of our "stuff" over with.  But on a commercial basis ?  I just do not know.

The tricky part will be "doing it" in the Philippines !! And finding suitably qualified and skilled electricians / installers.

The "solar lamp posts" are a good idea, but from what i have seen of them, they are high maintenance ( batteries, circuits etc ) and as such, are an easy target for theft.

As always ( applies to power, comms, whatever )  it is ALWAYS much better if you can run a wire to the device if possible !! Wireless technology should only be used as a LAST RESORT.


Okay.....
todays output so far.              http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217 (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217)

There is a vast amount of information on the web site,  but basically, when looking at the graph, the GREEN LINE is the amount of power ( kW ) that are being generated at the point in time on the bottom horizontal scale. 
The light green shaded area is the amount of kWh's that have been generated.

So if you hover your mouse on the graph area, and align it with 10:00am you can see that the system is generating 4,500 Watts of power.  ( enough power to run 45 x 100 watt light globes )
You can also see that up to 10:00am, the system had generated 10.696 kWh of power ( the energy required to run a 1kW AC unit for 10.696 hours )

If you have a bit of spare time, have a look around the site, you can see other peoples systems, where they are, what they have, etc etc .
You can select ( via the calendar below the graph ) the different dates to look at. from these graphs you can see the effect of cloud cover etc.


Bucket of water / power analagy. ( apologies for being simplistic )

Power ( kW ) can be thought of as the pressure of the water coming out of a hose filling up a bucket.
Energy ( kWh ) can be thought of as how much water is in the bucket

You are billed by the amount of kWh's that you use.

So if you have a 100 Watt light globe turned on for 10 hours, you will use 1 kWh  ( 10 x 100  x 1 hour ) and will be charged for 1 kWh.


Things about GRID TIED SOLAR PV that need to be understood.

"Grid tied" means just that.... it is connected to the grid. It will "follow" the grid frequency and voltage within preset limits.
Once the voltage or frequency of the grid goes outside of these limits, the inverter with shut down.
This is called "anti islanding" and is is done to protect power line workers as well as protecting the inverter ( it was never designed to provide power for the whole street ! )
Because of this "anti islanding" feature, if there is a brown out or black out or the grid become very unstable, the solar will turn off. Once the grid become stable again, the inverter will turn back on ( as long as the sun is shining )

A "grid Tied" system cannot provide very much power if the sun is not shining ( heavy cloud or heavy rain ) , and it will provide NO power at night.
There are NO BATTERIES in a basic solar PV grid tied system.

You may be able to "Trick" the inverter into powering up ( if the grid is down, but the sun is shining ) by turning OFF the MAIN switch in the meter board, and then "feeding power" into the house using a computer UPS ( uninteruptable power supply ) or similar.....
The inverter will "think" that this is mains power and proceed to start up.

***** Please note ***** I have not tried this and it is only a theory **********  Danger Danger ***** Tampering with grid level voltages could be fatal *******

Please don't even try this, it is only a theory.

It would be much safer just to run a small Gen Set.











Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BingColin on December 30, 2013, 03:16:06 PM
We went to Robinsons today for the New Year shopping and the Solar Store was open. I asked the cost of a 5kw system and they quoted P2.2M, this was with batteries. They did say that the online non battery systems would be cheaper but they donít sell them yet. Maybe there would be problems with connecting to the mains here. It does seem as though importing from Australia could be very profitable.  Their streets lights were P55k each, so still too expensive. When we replace our temporary outside lamposts with something better and more permanent I think I will just use 10w LED's.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on December 30, 2013, 03:58:07 PM
Wow, 2.2Million !!   That is about $55,000 AUD  !!   WOW............  someone is making a LOT of money if they ever sell one.
That would easily be double if not triple Aussie prices.

Grid connect ( no batteries ) is still the best way to go, even if the grid is not 100% stable.  There is just no point paying so much more money for battery storage for the 1% that the grid is "down"   , and a small gen set is a very cheap way to cover any outages that occur from time to time.

The more systems that get connected to the grid, the more stable it will become.

And any excess energy generated can be used to drive a water purification plant, for self consumption or to sell locally, providing another income stream.

I will be rsearching the importation of systems / components.  Just might be worthwhile  :D
 
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: JoeLP on December 30, 2013, 07:58:11 PM
Wow, 2.2Million !!   That is about $55,000 AUD  !!   WOW............  someone is making a LOT of money if they ever sell one.
That would easily be double if not triple Aussie prices.

Grid connect ( no batteries ) is still the best way to go, even if the grid is not 100% stable.  There is just no point paying so much more money for battery storage for the 1% that the grid is "down"   , and a small gen set is a very cheap way to cover any outages that occur from time to time.

The more systems that get connected to the grid, the more stable it will become.

And any excess energy generated can be used to drive a water purification plant, for self consumption or to sell locally, providing another income stream.

I will be rsearching the importation of systems / components.  Just might be worthwhile  :D

That's it, in Northern Samar, the power company doesn't even have a power plant, from what I've been told.  They buy power from other companies, then resell it to us.  Since I've been here, we've been without power, for at least 8 hours, at least 3 out of every 5 Saturdays.  Sometimes like this past weekend, both Saturday and Sunday.  At least this time it was mostly during the night.  From about 10pm to 8 or 9 am.  But it a regular thing.  Their excuse is maintenance.  About 4 years ago a new law was past that was to require all power companies to upgrade their grids.  It never happened in Northern Samar. 
That's why I like the idea of putting energy back into the grid to make money, but first, I'd like to fill up enough batteries to get about 8 hours of power for when the company decides to shut down.  Or when there are typhoons and days without power, it will take us most of the night with power before we lose out before the sun comes up again.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BudM on December 30, 2013, 09:49:53 PM
If you go and dabble in this Art, looks like you will be going alone.  At least without me that is.  I have changed my mind about maybe getting in to it a year or two from now.  If for some reason I can't get electricity, I will go ahead and stockpile some candles so that I won't run out of light.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 30, 2013, 11:15:12 PM
Only during power outages (which is seldom here where we live), but I only use candles at night during a black out just to keep the bogeyman at bay and with the bed sheets over my head!  ??? :o ;)
I don't like to sleep in a pitch black room, must always have a night lite on!   
This solar power thing is just tentative until I know more about it!
The cost of electricity may be high where we live, but we can still afford it! We just like our creature comforts during our retirement with our A/C running 24/7! So no, we are not the frugal type! I'm not complaining, life is good in the Philippines!   
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on December 31, 2013, 10:03:46 AM

There is just no point paying so much more money for battery storage for the 1% that the grid is "down", and a small gen set is a very cheap way to cover any outages that occur from time to time.
consumption or to sell locally, providing another income stream.


Down time depends on where you are.  When we visited Buguey last week the power was out every day from 5:30-7pm.  Some places report brownouts daily for 2-4 hours.

A good gen set would be one of the first requirements for our permanent house.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: medic3500 on January 08, 2014, 10:34:10 PM
Just for information I happened across a gent from the UK (also lives here part time I think) on another site who deals with solar panels, power and equipment. He is in the process of trying to find a local as a partner so he can bring his business here or something like that.  I invited him to this group since there has been much discussion about this recently.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on January 11, 2014, 01:30:22 AM
Super!  I did approve someone from the UK this morning.  Perhaps that was the gentleman to whom you refer.   :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on January 21, 2014, 11:45:39 PM
I like this guy and his "Off Grid Projects"! I just wish I was younger and able!
Bill, he even mentions renovating RVs! I could just see myself in an RV and staying at all
the campsites through out the entire US of A or maybe even here in the Philippines, since if they can convert utility vans into rolling food vans one now sees many of them in Manila! So, why not a mini RV with the comforts of home on the road!
     So, it appears if one is a handyman, an inexpensive solar powered A/C can be built!
http://youtu.be/ZJdNMb9gKQY (http://youtu.be/ZJdNMb9gKQY)

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: brett4gam on February 06, 2014, 08:31:50 AM
I have a pinay friend that works in the U.S. Embassy in Malate.  Not sure exactly what she does but I do know it is not in the visa section.

Following this thread I mentioned that many people were finding it hard to find suppliers.  She told me that she would give me a list of the companies that do so as recorded by the Embassy.

List attached, hope this is of assistance to those on here seeking such suppliers.  It is a ms - word document, hope you are able to download it, if not, someone please advise me how to get a document onto here.

Cheers
Brett.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on February 06, 2014, 09:23:47 AM
Good info Brett! Thanks!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: brett4gam on February 06, 2014, 10:30:26 AM
Welcome Art.  :)

Cheers
Brett
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on February 06, 2014, 10:21:12 PM
.doc files work just fine for me!  Thanks Brett!  Great List!  Very good information!  Using these sources we should should see if we can put together a model solar power system, a good base model for those interested in solar power for their homes. 

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on February 15, 2014, 08:59:05 PM
You know Recto has solar panel dealers by the dozen selling them in street stalls?

If you want to make panels, you can find complete instructions at Green Power Science.  For the solar cells, the cheapest way is to get a cheap ticket to Taiwan. Bring 2 empty suitcases and buy direct from the solar cell foundries.

I know a guy who brings in 20kw worth of cells in a carry on bag that way. 

Pay the duty at the airport. 
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on February 16, 2014, 12:05:03 PM
I know a guy who brings in 20kw worth of cells in a carry on bag that way. 


Cells are no good until they are made into panels.

A common garden variety 200Watt panel ( yes, 1/5 of a Kw )  measures approx 1500mm x 1000mm x 40mm and weighs 20 kilograms.

I call this info as INCORRECT

So far I have learned that most people perceptions of solar are NOT based on FACTS

my $0.02c worth  8)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Metz on February 16, 2014, 02:00:01 PM
I said cells not panels.  I also said green power science has free videos how to turn them into solar panels. 

20kw of 3x6 inch solar cells come out to a little under 25kg.  2.4 watt polycrystalline cell weighs 3 grams.

So yes 25kg in your luggage.. No problem.

http://www.greenpowerscience.com/SOLARPANELS.html (http://www.greenpowerscience.com/SOLARPANELS.html) 

What I said was correct and there are the footnotes.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on February 16, 2014, 04:49:50 PM
green power science has free videos how to turn them into solar panels. 

20kw of 3x6 inch solar cells come out to a little under 25kg.  2.4 watt polycrystalline cell weighs 3 grams.

3" x 6" cell x 8333 cells ( 20,000 / 2.4 ) gives  96.77 square meters ( this of course does not account for a little bit of room between the cells, or the panels. )
You would want to add at least 20% for this.  which makes  116.15 square meters, which is still an outlandish claim.
You would need quite a big roof !

I call the quoted cell output incorrect by a long shot.
Looks like the 2.4 watt you are quoting is too high, and maybe just a "burst" output, not real world.

Industry standard cells are either 5" square or 6" square.

Panels are tested and output figures quoted under real world conditions of ( NOCT: open-circuit module operation temperature )  at 800W/m2 irradiance, 25C ambient temperature, 1m/s wind speed.

A normal 200 watt MONO panel uses   72  x  5" x 5" cells  ( this is at 16% efficiency )  Derates to about 140 "real world " watts
A similar POLY panel uses the same and will generally be 2 % lower in efficiency.

200watts can be obtained in 1.5 square meters of panel
So a 20kW array can be had in 150 square meters,  and weigh about 2000Kg ,quite a big difference and this is due to the glass, frames, encapsulant, cables etc.



Considering panel manufacture is the stuff of robotic precision and absolutely dust free "clean rooms" , good luck with assembling them into anything that will work.

A 3x6 sounds like a factory cast off, not worth the sand they are made of.  ( polly cells are the cheap cousin of the mono cells FYI )

Your first issue will be to match the cells to within 1% of each other, other wise efficiency is greatly reduced and the panel will effectively short out internally and possibly catch fire.
Your next hurdle will be the laser welded silver foil electron collecting bars, connecting all the cells into an array ( usually 60 or 72 in series )
The next issue will be securing them onto the ethylene vinyl acetate (EVA) backing and then backing it just right to achieve the correct adhesion, without degrading the EVA ( This is why cheap panels turn yellow or brown after a couple of years.)

Then you have the bypass diodes ( usually 3 ) and the weather proof connection box and cables
Then the frame
Then the toughened glass.
Then matching your newly created panels to within 1 or 2 % of each other ..........

And then how long is your master piece going to last ??

I get mine at less than $0.80 per watt with a full 10 year manufacturer guarantee on workmanship, and then a further 15 year guarantee on power output ( 25 yrs in all )
Government certified ( so they can be grid connected ) and all with standard sizing, which means that they will fit standard racking.

And because these things are out of sight ( sort of ) and up on your roof, they want to be good enough to only have to do the job once, so i know where my hard earned dollar goes

Sorry to burst any bubbles, but science is science.

Just my $0.02c worth  :)
Good luck with your project.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: brett4gam on March 21, 2014, 10:35:00 AM
Attached a link to an article about a solar panel kit that was on philstar.com. just now.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2014/03/21/1303362/solar-power-pushed-yolanda-homes (http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2014/03/21/1303362/solar-power-pushed-yolanda-homes)

Enjoy

Cheers
Brett
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: brett4gam on May 18, 2014, 10:11:14 AM
President opens a new Solar generation plant Negros Occidental.  Hopefully more to come in the future.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/business/05/16/14/phs-1st-large-scale-solar-power-plant-opens-san-carlos (http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/business/05/16/14/phs-1st-large-scale-solar-power-plant-opens-san-carlos)

Cheers
Brett
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Shewmake on May 18, 2014, 01:03:01 PM
I too am interested in solar but maybe after I have replenished the piggy bank. What I am interested in hearing is someone who has done it from a-z and the total cost and maintenance.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on May 19, 2014, 01:51:47 AM
I too am interested in solar but maybe after I have replenished the piggy bank. What I am interested in hearing is someone who has done it from a-z and the total cost and maintenance.

Scroll back through some of the posts made earlier in this thread and you'll find a very detailed discussion about building a solar system.  Leinster Lad, suzukig1 and Metz all have extensive knowledge about these systems and have shared freely with all of us.  I'm sure they'll be glad to offer some insight. 

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Shewmake on May 19, 2014, 03:30:49 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: fred on May 19, 2014, 05:47:55 PM
I have read somewhere (cant remember where) that there is a law here that gives us the right to install grid ties.
The local power company will have to supply 2 meters..One import the other export.. Any exported power to the grid will create a deduction to your power bill.
This is definitely the way to go IMO as the weakest link in these solar systems is power storage.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on July 02, 2014, 03:34:33 PM
This topic has been discussed here quite extensively! If solar panels were inexpensive and without a lot of government restrictions/regulations and with reputable suppliers/installers available everywhere, there would be a lot of solar panel arrays in the Philippines, but I haven't seen any in our area ever since living here for the past 17 years and probably never will in my lifetime, unless I have a solar company install one here in our area, but at what cost and as to recover the total expense in my lifetime before my surviving spouse sees any savings in her monthly electric bill after I'm long gone! And will she be able to afford the maintenance costs in an event of a breakdown? ::) :o   
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 03, 2014, 12:59:49 PM
Hi Art, ( et al )
I know that i have been banging on about this for a while, but really, the "return on investment" or "pay back period" or whatever you want to call it, is in reality, less than 7 years.
Solar panels are warranted for 25 years.
Inverters normally about 10 years. ( but should last much much longer )

You have to look at "what the power would have cost " as the driving factor.
Excess power that is "Fed back" into the grid must also be factored in.  ( about PHP 8 / kWh ? )

If your power bill is "normally"  PHP 10,000 per month ( which some posters have mentioned ), with a suitably sized system that covers this use, you will "save" PHP 10,000 per month, which means that your solar PV system is "giving you" PHP 120,000 of power per year.
Now, if your system cost PHP 500,000, it will have "paid" for itself in less than 5 years.
Now, for at least the next 5 years, you will have "free" power. ( and an extra PHP120,000 in your pocket )  20 years would be the "normal" expectation.

In reality, every year the savings will be more than last year, because to price of power will ALWAYS increase, and you no longer have to buy power ! So the "Pay Back" time will actually be less.

If the inverter happens to fail after 10 years, they are about 30% of the system cost, so will only need a couple of years worth to pay for itself.
Panels have a 25 year warranty.

There is also ZERO maintenance. ( because there are no batteries or moving parts at all. )
Normal rainfall will wash any dust and grime off the panels as they have a "hydro-phobic" coating on the glass.

SM Prime have just installed a 1,500 kW system  on the SM City North Edsa Mall !! Brilliant !!
http://www.philstar.com/business/2014/06/26/1338931/sm-prime-building-largest-comml-solar-rooftop (http://www.philstar.com/business/2014/06/26/1338931/sm-prime-building-largest-comml-solar-rooftop)

I will definitely be bringing up a solar PV system ( and a 6kva "pure sine wave" diesel generator )  when I eventually move to the Philippines. It is a "no brainer"  !!

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: FMSINC on July 03, 2014, 03:50:06 PM
I really do not understand your math if you power bill is 10,000 per month thats for 24 Hours of usage

With your solar panel if you are lucky it may produce power for 5-7 hours a day so if its size is 8Kw you will have 2-3 hours at 8 kw production depending on the time of year. So you will still need grid connection for at least 17 hours a day

The rest of the daylight hours it produces power output on a graduated bell curve from sun up to peak time period to sun down and thats if there are no clouds in the sky.

The New 25 Mw Solar plant just installed in our area is were I'm getting the daily performance numbers from.

So the reduction of your power bill if your average consumption per hour is  8KW of day was equal would only be roughly around 1/4 of the 10,000 piso's in savings and thats if you lived in the perfect world.

In our area Region 6 you are unable to sell power back to the grid or co-op so please advise what power company here is offering to by your 8Kw of power and what is the minimum requirement of Kilowatts to avail of the said program

Good idea to bring the genset

I wish the solar performed better but the numbers make for a long ROI I have looked at solar many times but just can not see the cost effectiveness of it 

My power bill by the way averages around 20,000 piso's now for 2 houses and warehouse and security lights. 14.40 per KW in Capiz

We disconnected our rice mill from the grid as we were paying in excess of 2 to 3 Million per month.

The cost of power 13 months ago was 25.50KW hour on prime metering any transformer over 225KVA

I have been running genset for the last 13 months for the rice mill

If your transformer is 225KVA or lower your rate here 14.40 KW this is called a secondary metering

By running a genset we are down to around 700,000 for fuel each month with no brown outs cost for Diesel and maintenance is right at 8 piso KW produced

All power is supplied to house etc from genset when the mill is running

By the way welcome to the Philippines

Best Regards

Tom
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 04, 2014, 08:43:18 AM
Hi Tom , thanks for the reply. ( sorry in advance to the long post  :-[ )
This solar stuff can be quite confusing !

I hear what you are saying about generation times and night time etc etc.

It really is all about averages, and sizing the system to meet your individual requirements.
If the system is sized correctly, you should be able to reduce your NET power bill to zero.

You really need to read your power meter, say at 8am and then again at 5 pm.
take these readings every day for at least a month.
Enter the data into a spreadsheet, and graph you power usage.
This will really help when it comes time to design your system ( or even work out if it is viable )

Ideally.....
Consume MOST/ALL of your power during generation hours ( day light )
Consume ( buy ) the minimum amount during the night.

Here is a link to my system. ( yesterday,  03/07/2014 )
Very useful site with heaps of info.

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217&dt=20140702&gs=0&m=1 (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217&dt=20140702&gs=0&m=1)

My 5.7kW system averages 25kWh per day, summer winter rain sun.... this is over the last 3 years.
My best days are around the 41 kWh mark, worst has been as low as 2 kWh  :'(

My house uses about 20kWh ( average ) per day.
So i generate more than I use, and I feed the excess into the grid.
I get paid for this excess. ( here in Australia )

This legislation was passed a couple of years ago in the Philippines.
"RULES ENABLING THE NET-METERING PROGRAM FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY
Pursuant to Section 10, Chapter III of Republic Act No. 9513, otherwise known as the Renewable Act of 2008, and Section 7, Rule 2, Part II of its Implementing Rules and Regulations (IRR), the Energy Regulatory Commission, in consultation with the National Renewable Energy Board and the electric power industry participants, hereby adopt and promulgate these Rules Enabling the Net-Metering Program for Renewable Energy."

Meralco currently pay about PHP 5.6  per kWh fed back into the grid, from grid connect solar PV. But they are VERY coy about it !
Most of Meralco's customer support staff do not know anything about it  :o


There are a couple of ways of metering this.

You have 2 meters.
One measures what you buy (consume ) from the grid. This number of kWh's is then multiplied by the XXX / kWh charge, and this is what you owe the power company.

The other meter measures how much power ( generated by solar ) is fed back into the grid. This number of xxx / kWh's is then multiplied by the kWh FIT, and this is what the power company pays you.

If you use more kWh than you feed back, you will pay the difference.

If you feed back more kWh than you consume, the power company pays you ( or credited your account )

If you have one of those "spinning disc" meters, it should be even simpler.
Any excess power that is not used by the house, is fed back into the grid, and spins the meter backwards, which reduces the kWh used "
reading".
This has the effect of "storing" excess power in the grid ( like a battery) which is available for later use.

So if you fed back , say, 10kWh into the grid during the day (  meter spins backwards by 10 units ), that 10 Kwh is "available" to consume ( meter spins forwards by 10 units ) when your solar system is not generating enough power to cover your house needs.
The net effect is that your meter has registered ZERO which mean no charge for that 10 kWh that you used!

Really does depend upon what the deal is with YOUR power company. Everyones situation is differnet.
There have been laws passed that allow this to happen but grid connect solar PV is very much in its infancy in the Philippines at the moment.
We are a lot further advanced here in Australia.

Whatever, what I DO know, from MY real world experience, is that it works for ME.
In MY situation, i have not paid even 1 cent for the power ( including supply charges etc ) to my house since my solar was installed.
Since my solar was installed, my power company has given me nearly $5000 for the excess power that I have fed back into the grid.

These two facts will ensure that my $19,000 dollar investment in solar is "repaid" ( thru both savings and credits ) in less than 6 years.
My system "should" keep providing all of my power needs for at least the next 20 years.  What is THAT going to be worth ??
It has also added "value" to my house. ( much like adding a patio, garage or swimming pool would )
 
Not really sure if I am explaining it well enough for others to understand..... probably not....... so i might just shut up now !!
( pm me with your private email if you like. I have a few documents etc that I can send you )






Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on July 04, 2014, 10:59:30 AM
These two facts will ensure that my $19,000 dollar investment in solar is "repaid" ( thru both savings and credits ) in less than 6 years.
My system "should" keep providing all of my power needs for at least the next 20 years
Your solar investment in Australia maybe $19,000, but what would it really cost here in the Philippines? Double that maybe? Repaid in how many year? Most of us old retirees probably won't see or experience the savings in our lifetime since we would still probably be paying for it if the money was borrowed! Not too many retired folks here in the Philippines have that kind of money to invest and hope for a return on their investment during the remainder of their lifetime!
Solar energy will be more suitable and practical for the younger generation who can afford it!
In this day and age of the high cost of technical inventions, most retired oldtimers on a fixed income and set in their ways mostly do not have that kind of money laying around to invest on anything! Some retirees will just have to bite the bullet and do without with all of the modern western conveniences in order to live or just survive within their means!     
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: FMSINC on July 04, 2014, 11:40:46 AM
The problem is Leinster is there is no deal available to sell excess power to the Co-Op or Grid in my area

They may have a law on the books but out here in the provinces Non-Merelco they will not allow you to feed into Co-op Lines and the grid is a no go unless you produce 1Mw or more and it requires a 69,000 volt line connection to a NGCP transmission line

So with the grid sales out of the equation you will only be reducing your own bill for by 5-7 hours a day.

My meter shows  load in real time 5KW an hour during the day at night with air and lights it goes to 9Kw

Have a quote for a 15KW system for $25,000 USD  From china complete about half the cost as quoted locally

Wish this was Australia but its the RP

Tom
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 04, 2014, 11:44:36 AM
G'Day Art,
BTW, just out of curiosity, roughly what is your monthly power consumption ( kWh ) and electric bill ?
( actual  kWh consumption is listed on your bill )


That $19,000 system cost was 3 years ago.
Same system now costs about $8000 ( installed )
Same size but cheaper gear costs about $5000 ( installed )
I dare say they would be even cheaper "State Side"..... look into it.

There is no "magic" in the installation, really basic stuff.
Any reasonably competent sparky will find it very easy.

When you look at the ongoing (ever increasing) costs of power, and work out how much you will spend year on year, the numbers do get quite frightening !

It is probably a very worthy exercise for all who have even the slightest care about their financial circumstance, to READ YOUR POWER METER.......regularly.......twice a day  ( 8am and 5pm ) for a month or two. Spreadsheet and analyze the data...... you might be amazed !
You will very quickly learn exactly how much power you are using and more importantly WHEN.
This is the information that you need when doing due diligence on the cost/benefit of solar PV.

Get to know WHAT your power bills are telling you.

Just complaining that this months power cost PHP 8,967  is silly and  means absolutely NOTHING. You need to know HOW MUCH power you have used !

Learn how to use your A/C effectively ( thermostat setting etc )
See if you can shade that hot side of your house with some nice shrubs or trees.
See if you can let the cool night time breeze into the house. ( insect screens on the windows )

As i said before, when i finally move up there, i will be bringing a solar PV system and generator with me.
I will avail the BB tax free provision for personal stuff etc and fight Meralco tooth and nail to grid connect it. ( it is my right you know )

The Philippine government has passed laws to allow this, and so I will !

Eventually, when battery storage becomes economically viable ( maybe only 2 or 3 years away ), I will disconnect entirely from the grid and become self sufficient.

I am very happy to help all with any advice I can give, and just as a disclaimer, I have NO affiliation with any Solar / electric company / business at all. I am mearly a very keen enthusiast  8)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 04, 2014, 12:04:54 PM
The problem is Leinster is there is no deal available to sell excess power to the Co-Op or Grid in my area
My meter shows  load in real time 5KW an hour during the day at night with air and lights it goes to 9Kw
Have a quote for a 15KW system for $25,000 USD  From china complete about half the cost as quoted locally
Wish this was Australia but its the RP
Tom

Hi Tom, looks like it is hard to do in the Philippines.....
And it looks like you draw a fair amount of power !
That quote looks about right, maybe a tad high, but it would be fine for good quality gear.

A 15kW system will more than supply your daily needs, but without being able to feed your excess back into the grid, it would be a waste.

Your ONLY way of this size working, is if you have one of those "spinning disc" meters, and you do not tell your power company that you are connecting to the grid. ( they probably wouldn't know anyway )
This way, your excess power spins the meter backwards, and then you "redraw" that excess exported power at night.

OR, you find a way to use all of your generated power ( so that you do not have to buy it ) like, just do all your water pumping during the day. Water heating during the day. etc whatever you would normally buy power to do, do that while the sun is shining.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 04, 2014, 12:13:21 PM
Just in, quite a good read  8)

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/australias-solar-boom-just-begun-bloomberg-58987 (http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/australias-solar-boom-just-begun-bloomberg-58987)

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: FMSINC on July 04, 2014, 06:05:32 PM
Good idea but if they are working on the line and there is an illegal hook feeding power to the grid and it kills a line man them I go to prison for a few hundred years not a good idea I think

Tom
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on July 04, 2014, 11:14:17 PM
A good working knowledge of the subject would be very helpful for anyone seriously interested in a home system.   

Solar Electric Basics  -  PV-Direct, Off-Grid, Grid-Tied
http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/basics/what-solar-electricity

The site also has info on solar water heating, wind power and microhydro power systems. 

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 05, 2014, 05:30:25 AM
Good idea but if they are working on the line and there is an illegal hook feeding power to the grid and it kills a line man them I go to prison for a few hundred years not a good idea I think
Tom


Negative Tom (100 points for thinking though  :)  )
Grid tie interters ( at least certified good quality ones ) have what is called "anti-islanding" feature.
What this means is that the inverter is constantly monitoring the quality ( voltage frequency, phase, power factor ) of the mains (grid ) supply, and if ANY of these parameters falls outside of the preset tollerances, then the inverter shuts down.
The inverter continues to monitor the grid, and when the supply comes back to tollerance, the inverter will start up again.

The power company will not let you connect anything else.

This is one of the reasons why you NEVER connect a generator to your house without isolating it from the grid first.
Specific, rated "Change Over" switches are available for this very task.

There are some very fancy systems available ( German brand SMA ) that can combine grid tie solar with battery storage with generator input as well that will automatically disconnect from the grid when required.

http://www.sma-australia.com.au/en_AU/products.html (http://www.sma-australia.com.au/en_AU/products.html)

Also, very good advice from GW......
If you are even a little bit interesed in saving a heap of money on utilities, then get reading.......... all it costs you is your time.

Here is another link if you have some spare hours (days) to read thru. Generally refers to systems in Australia, but there is a LOT of generic solar knowledge as well. ( both power and water ) 

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143 (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143)

This forum has heaps more to it than just solar....... spend some time...... it's cool  8)

As I have said before, I have no affiliation with any product or company.
I am just a very enthusiastic supporter of all things renewable  :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Frosty on July 06, 2014, 09:55:48 PM
The idea behind solar is to reduce your power bill.
AC consumes the largest amount of elect.
$19000 spent to install something that might give you a pay back in 6 or 7 years, no grantees.
Why not spend the money or a small part of the $19000 on insulating your house?
I have nothing against solar it will work, but it's not the only way to reduce your power bill and like Art said most people don't have the $19000 to spend on a solar system but they might be able to come up with a few thousand to insulate their attic space
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: coleman2347 on July 06, 2014, 10:46:23 PM
my power bill from leyco last month was 19000
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on July 06, 2014, 11:22:02 PM
Our electric bill from Meralco for July was P13,553
only because our 1HP A/C is on 24/7 in our bedroom!
Are we spoiled? You bet! We're not very frugal!
I know if we just turn off our A/C when not in our bedroom and
didn't use our electric stove, microwave oven, shower heaters and
or washer/dryer so often, we would probably cut our electric bill in half or more!
Yeah, insulating the attic and walls would certainly help, which will be my next  project wherever I get around to it!
Installation of a solar power system just isn't in our future plans or during the remainder of my
lifetime, because I do not want to leave my wife anything that she doesn't understand
or know how to operate/monitor and won't be able to afford to maintain after I'm long gone! ??? :o   
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: coleman2347 on July 07, 2014, 12:25:50 AM
yea, we had a super hot spell and malines siblings spent a lot of time here that month, when they are here they like to camp out in the kids br running the ac...I put a stop to it.  Our biggest elec. burner is the hot water heater, figured that out when I was running the generator, when I took a hot shower it would bog down to almost nothing...and like you I run the ac in our bedroom 24/7  for a couple of reasons, one the computer is there and it keeps the humidity low, two when I want to take a nap I dont want to have to wait for the room to cool....yea I'm spoiled. Normal bill is about 12000...
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BingColin on July 07, 2014, 06:43:01 AM
The idea behind solar is to reduce your power bill.
AC consumes the largest amount of elect.
$19000 spent to install something that might give you a pay back in 6 or 7 years, no grantees.
Why not spend the money or a small part of the $19000 on insulating your house?
I have nothing against solar it will work, but it's not the only way to reduce your power bill and like Art said most people don't have the $19000 to spend on a solar system but they might be able to come up with a few thousand to insulate their attic space

Insulating the attic space is very cheap and simple. Insulating walls is more difficult on a ready built house but just shading the walls that catch the sun would help. In our original rented house some of the walls were very warm at times.

Our house is very well insulated and remains reasonably cool most of the time, but we did install a split aircon in the bedroom that has a turbo mode. This will reduce the temperature very rapidly. Before going to bed I will switch the aircon on turbo while having a shower and it is down to our preset 26C by the time I have finished. I can do the same for an afternoon nap, but often find that a fan is enough.

If you are building a new house I would suggest installing a central electric hot water system instead of the instant electric heaters. You can then constuct a simple solar preheater, but the comercial types are readly available and going down in price. I believe I saw one locally for around P25k.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 07, 2014, 08:21:33 AM
The idea behind solar is to reduce your power bill.
$19000 spent to install something that might give you a pay back in 6 or 7 years, no grantees.

Frosty, as mentioned previously,  the $19,000 was three years ago. Same system today is $8,000
Running my numbers ( consumption, generation etc ) thru my spreadsheet actually gives me payback number of 5.6 years.  This number is actually pretty bang on for accuracy.
Verified by a quick "back of the napkin" type calculation.

You mention that there are "No Guarantees" ?   Well heck, the world might end tomorrow as well....
Let me guarantee you that your power bill will ALWAYS increase if you purchase your power from the grid !

As i have also mentioned, I have not paid even 1 centavo for my power for the last 3 years..... nothing....nada.

Sure, i have effectively paid for my power "in advance", but in 2.6 years, I will have used up all that "credit" , and I will still not have to pay ANYTHING for power for the life of the system ( 20+ years ), and if I am not wastefull of my energy, the power that I sell back into the grid will put about $2000 back into my pocket, every year !

And yes, my house is already very well insulated.
( My house is a large 4brm 2brm "western" house with bore pump reticulation for the gardens. I have 3 a/c's  2 x 2 kW and 1 x 8 kW. I run a server, NAS, WiFi router, PC's, 2 laptops, Security lights, 3 large fridges, 1 x LED TV, 1 x CRT TV, microwave, dish washer, elect oven, washing machine, cloths drier, stereos, yep, pretty much all the gadgets, stay home wife and 3 kids. )

As I had a new meter installed when I installed my grid connect solar PV system........ here are some numbers.....

Install date      19 August 2011
Meter import     0 kWh
Meter export     0 kWh

Figures as of     03 June 2014     
Meter, import     11,207 kWh   ( this is what I had to "buy" from the grid @  $0.30 kWh )
Meter, export     18,669 kWh   ( this is what I fed INTO the grid, after the house used what it needed, credited at $0.48 kWh  )
Inverter, total    25,854 kWh   ( this is the solar system life time generation so far.  Average generation of 25 kWh per day )
House hold "self consumption, which is unmetered  (  25,854 - 18,669 = 7,185 ) This is the power that the house used, from the solar, before any excess could go out to the grid.  This is how a "NET Feed In Tarrif" works. )

So over that period,  my house ( system ) produced ( 25,854 kWh ) more power than the house used ( 18,392 kWh ).
My excess power ( 18,669 kWh ) was fed back into the grid for a credit, which is what paid for my metered consumption ( 11,207 kWh ) and gave me a credit cheque(s).

The value of the credit and the value of the power that I did not buy adds up to about $3500 per year.

You will notice that my "feed in credit" is $0.48 kWh
This is a 10 year guarantee from the state government that was introduced as an incentive for people to invest in solar.
( Remember, my system did cost $19,000. )

This "generous" feed in tarrif has now been reduced ( for new connections ) to $0.08 kWh.... but systems are now 1/3 the price that I paid !

Even without the "feed in credit", I did not have to buy 11,207 kWh +( 25,854 - 18,669 ) = 18,392 kWh @ $0.30 kWh of power.
That is a saving of $5,517.60 that I did NOT have to spend on power.

This is how my system will have a ROI of about 5.6 years.
As far as an "Investment" goes, this is about 25% TAX FREE.
I do not know of ANY other investment that will give you that sort of return. ( at the same time giving me "free" power ) plus add value to your house.


Art says that his June power bill was P13,553  x 12  = P162,636 per year.  ( How many kWh's was this Art ??? )
That is a spend of 811,180 over 5 years.
This is money that you know that you WILL ( plus more, as power always goes up ) have to spend anyway ( unless you are going to live in a tent, in the jungle, with no power...)  and THAT sort of money should buy you a very good solar PV system.

And a system of that size ( 5 or 6 kW ) should provide ALL of your energy requirements with some excess fed back to the grid.
Meralco will give you P5.6 kWh credit for this........good beer money.

I understand that a lot of people simply do not have immediate access to that sort of money...... but it is worthwhile trying to, as you are going to spend the money anyway !

YMMV, but these are REAL WORLD figures form a system that has been operating for 3 years, and it works for me.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: fred on July 07, 2014, 08:57:32 AM
Tom,

What do you do with all that Palay husk?  I'm not sure if you know or not but that is one hell of a lot of bio mass just waiting to help you pay your power bill.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: FMSINC on July 07, 2014, 02:20:10 PM
Hi Fred, the rice husk is piled up now over 45 feet tall over 18 hectares of land already after 12 years of running the Mill.

It a real pain in the *%$ we use a crawler dump truck and dozer everyday to level it.

In our area no one will buy it If I was in Luzon I could sell it at 2 Piso a Kilo to the cement factory

You can see the rice mill on google earth from 30,000 feet just look for Panitan, Panay Island go down the road to Pontevedra

The problem is takes money to make money to install a  MW steam plant the cost is right at $10,000,000 USD with 6 KM/ of 69K line to NGCP Switch yard we already have enough stock pile to run the plant for 3-4 years with out even milling new rice

The banks here will only finance 70% of the project cost on a 7 year loan. So I need to come up with $3,000,0000 USD for the 30% deposit any one Interested in investing.

Hopefully I do already have a joint venture partner, I will see if there real or not in the next few months

Till then I will be the largest private customer Petron has in the Area

Best Regards

Tom/ Roxas City
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on July 07, 2014, 03:34:16 PM
You can see the rice mill on google earth from 30,000 feet just look for Panitan, Panay Island go down the road to Pontevedra
Tom/ Roxas City

Nice roof on your mill Tom, Plenty of room for some solar panels  ;) just joking  8)

Good luck with the power plant.
Will be good for stabilising the grid as well as a really good income stream for you.

Dave
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on July 08, 2014, 06:11:55 AM
Dang, that's a big pile of rice husks!!   :o   :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Lei on July 20, 2014, 03:52:12 PM
Tom,

What do you do with all that Palay husk?  I'm not sure if you know or not but that is one hell of a lot of bio mass just waiting to help you pay your power bill.
I would love to be neighbors with Tom. I would ask someone to make several simple, easy to use, low cost rice hull carbonizer and make carbonized hull out of it. It's a great organic fertilizer or soil conditioner! In return, I will supply Tom with fresh organic veggies and fruits! I can even give my other neighbors surplus fertilizer for their own garden. Or better yet teach them how to do it themselves and sell it for extra income. I will also make a sunken path within my huge garden and fill it up with rice hull to cushion my feet and so I don't step into the garden bed. I can also use the rice hull as a mulch for the plants, to cover the soil and to conserve moisture. I can use it as a bedding for the chickens and pigs as an experiment. I will dug a meter deep trench inside the pen, fill it up with rice hull, spray indigenous organisms and hopefully it works like a rice straw beddings....no clean no smell animal pens!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: FMSINC on July 20, 2014, 06:12:23 PM
Julie,

Come on down your welcome any time

I can not even give the husks away no one here is interested in them for any use, only a few chicken farmers come and load trucks with husks for bedding.

Jack that Google Earth picture showing the husks is around 7 years old we were just getting started with the larger milling lines

We are working out a contract now on a J/V for a 3 MW Steam power plant that should solve the 100 ton a day rice husk problem in the near future


Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Lei on July 20, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
100 ton of rice husk a day? OMG...I changed my mind no thank you I don't want to get buried underneath a tsunami of rice husk. Lol.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Gray Wolf on July 20, 2014, 10:26:24 PM
100 ton of rice husk a day? OMG...I changed my mind no thank you I don't want to get buried underneath a tsunami of rice husk. Lol.

You'll have plenty to experiment with!   :)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: JD on August 05, 2014, 12:52:39 PM
Searching online for things locally available in the Philippines is hardly ever very fruitful but tonight I was able to find at least one site which quoted a 1.5kW grid-tie system, in the Philippines, $5,000 USD installed.

Solaric (http://www.solaric.com.ph/product/1-5kw-solar-panel-grid-tied-system/)

I'm having trouble seeing the bang for my buck here. Would it be a better idea to go with a scaled-back, battery-charging emergency system?


JD
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 06, 2014, 07:14:14 AM
Searching online for things locally available in the Philippines is hardly ever very fruitful but tonight I was able to find at least one site which quoted a 1.5kW grid-tie system, in the Philippines, $5,000 USD installed.

Solaric ([url]http://www.solaric.com.ph/product/1-5kw-solar-panel-grid-tied-system/[/url])

I'm having trouble seeing the bang for my buck here. Would it be a better idea to go with a scaled-back, battery-charging emergency system?


JD


That is insanely expensive.
A friend of mine is getting a 5 Kw system installed today for $5,600 AUD
At that price point it make heaps of sense, with pay back in less than 6 years.

I know it is in Australia, but that seems to be a realistic price.

Would be worthwhile buying a system down here and shipping it up to the Phils ?
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: fred on August 06, 2014, 09:01:17 AM
Searching online for things locally available in the Philippines is hardly ever very fruitful but tonight I was able to find at least one site which quoted a 1.5kW grid-tie system, in the Philippines, $5,000 USD installed.

Solaric ([url]http://www.solaric.com.ph/product/1-5kw-solar-panel-grid-tied-system/[/url])

I'm having trouble seeing the bang for my buck here. Would it be a better idea to go with a scaled-back, battery-charging emergency system?


JD


That is insanely expensive.
A friend of mine is getting a 5 Kw system installed today for $5,600 AUD
At that price point it make heaps of sense, with pay back in less than 6 years.

I know it is in Australia, but that seems to be a realistic price.

Would be worthwhile buying a system down here and shipping it up to the Phils ?


In a Balikbayan box..YES!!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 06, 2014, 09:24:41 AM
"
In a Balikbayan box..YES!! "

I think the panels  would be too big for a BB box.

Even if it cost $1000 to ship it up there, it is still woth while.
Might have some issues with customs / import duty / taxes etc......
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 06, 2014, 05:20:32 PM
Good solar day for me today   

Just over 23 kWh

Not bad for winter !
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: graham on August 08, 2014, 10:29:33 AM
"
In a Balikbayan box..YES!! "

I think the panels  would be too big for a BB box.

Even if it cost $1000 to ship it up there, it is still woth while.
Might have some issues with customs / import duty / taxes etc......

LL,

if you talk to a BB shipper, like I did, then you can cobble boxes
together to fit an oversize article. They will still only charge you
the same price per box.

eg: if it takes 2 boxes together to fit the article in, then you get
charged for 2 boxes, etc. etc. I did this with my soft side surround
for my waterbed.

Generally, from reading 100's of posts, it appears that BB boxes are
not subject to inspection at all. But, like always, here in the Phil. you
take your chances.

Graham
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 08, 2014, 11:13:11 AM
Graham,
I was not aware that BB boxes could be "combined" to form a bigger box.......
Panels are normally about 1600mm x 800mm x 35mm ( 62" x 32" x 1.4" )  so will need more than a "double" box !
Phil customs does say that goods in a BB Box must be for personal use, not of commercial quantity and less than $500 USD.
Not sure that 20 panels would fit this criterea !!
Would hate to have a couple of grands worth of panels "confiscated" !!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: BingColin on August 08, 2014, 12:04:17 PM

LL,

if you talk to a BB shipper, like I did, then you can cobble boxes
together to fit an oversize article. They will still only charge you
the same price per box.

eg: if it takes 2 boxes together to fit the article in, then you get
charged for 2 boxes, etc. etc. I did this with my soft side surround
for my waterbed.

Generally, from reading 100's of posts, it appears that BB boxes are
not subject to inspection at all. But, like always, here in the Phil. you
take your chances.

Graham

I donít know what the regulations are for BBís but I constructed a large plywood box to take my dismantled electronic organ. It was well over standard BB size and took four of us to carry it our shippers truck. He arranged for it to go in his container first so that customs were unlikely to empty it to get to it. It arrived without any problems.  Another BB shipper used large rainwater barrels which he said would be useful in the Philippines.

BB boxes can be checked by customs but they very rarely are. As a precaution, we used my wifeís maiden name on the shipping documents and they were delivered to one of her relatives
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 08, 2014, 01:24:09 PM
As a precaution, we used my wifeís maiden name on the shipping documents and they were delivered to one of her relatives

Great tip Colin, Thanks  :D
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: ronnsb on August 20, 2014, 09:57:54 AM
Excellent info on solar power Leinster Lad!

Here in the States, I am seeing more and more solar power for pool heaters, home water heaters, and photo voltaic systems for whole house electricity. Unfortunately for me and many others, the initial costs here are not "there" yet to show a true savings for a long time. I'm waiting to see what happens in the next few years with the solar cells made with magnesium chloride.

Here is a link to one article on it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/breakthrough-in-solar-panel-manufacture-promises-cheap-energy-within-a-decade-9563136.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/breakthrough-in-solar-panel-manufacture-promises-cheap-energy-within-a-decade-9563136.html)

When solar comes down even more in price within the next 5 years or so, I believe there will be substantial increase in solar power use. For now I will keep turning off the lights when not needed and try to conserve as best I can!

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on August 20, 2014, 10:37:28 AM
As long as we can afford to pay our electric bill, we have no plans for a solar energy system!
Anyway, here in the Philippines, there just aren't enough companies developing/installing solar energy systems quick enough at an affordable initial investment!
Besides, a lot of retirees here in the Philippines often have fixed incomes and can't afford the cost of a solar energy system for their bahay kubo or maybe they can!  :o ;)

http://tinyurl.com/nmg2jea (http://tinyurl.com/nmg2jea)   
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: graham on August 25, 2014, 02:10:31 PM
I read somewhere recently, that a gentleman living in
the U.K I think it was, has developed a spray-on solar
system that you can drive on. He has done this on his
property and is receiving encouraging support. While not
fully tested yet, has the potential to be a less costlier
method than the photo-voltaic method, as they are
expensive in the manufacture.

Graham
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: JD on August 25, 2014, 02:51:22 PM
Google-Fu.

UK scientists develop spray-on solar energy cells (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/uk-scientists-develop-sprayon-solar-energy-cells-9643537.html)



JD
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: lelang1130 on August 25, 2014, 03:27:52 PM
In my native hometown in Camarines Sur, we are now using solar panel in our home. That helped us a lot with the recent Glenda Typhoon. We purchased 80 watts of solar panel costed us about Php5,000 + battery around Php 5,000 and the solar bulbs Php60 each. We can use 12 bulbs of 5 watts solar bulb, electric fan and tv. The bulb used in solar panel is different from the regular bulbs we can buy from the store. In Manila, 1 solar bulb cost Php250.00 but my bro knows a supplier that sells cheaper. My bro installed our solar panel himself, he's kind of a techy guy and we're now  using solar panel as well in our poultry farm. Save's us an electric monthly bill. 

According to my bro, if I would have my entire apartment run by solar panel, it would cost me around Php50,000-Php 70,000. I would need 200 watts x 2 single solar panel to run my 1HP aircon, 1x 7cubic ft refrigerator, LED tv, laptop/computer. I am saving up to be able to do this as this would save me a tremendous amount of money! Without solar panel, I am paying on my monthly electric bill Php6,500!!!
Title: Re:Solar Panels
Post by: lelang1130 on August 25, 2014, 03:36:16 PM
For 8 years, we had been using a generator as a back-up whenever there no power/electricity in my hometown in camarines sur. This year, we had upgraded to a solar panel because solar panels do not require a diesel or petrol to make them work.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on August 25, 2014, 03:56:21 PM
lelang,
The only difference is, you have a relative who has the technical knowledge and can install your solar powered system inexpensively vs us retirees with no skills would have to hire an expensive solar panel supplier/professional/expert installer!
So, as long as we can afford to pay our electric bill, we foresee not needing to install an expensive solar powered system anytime soon in the near future, unless the cost of those expensive solar powered systems drastically comes down in cost for the average Filipinos and or foreign retirees living on a limited source of income in the Philippines!     
Those who post on here about these expensive solar powered systems are either still working in their home country or semi-retired and just come to the Philippines a few months out of the year and return to their home country and who can afford $10,000 to $20,000 at a drop of a hat to install a solar system, whereas those retired here permanently on a fixed source of income just can't afford to dish out that kind of money and wait 5 to 7 yrs to recoup their investment on their solar powered system! Furthermore, these systems have to be monitored, shut down at night when the sun goes down using backup battery or the normal city electric grid and these solar powered systems have to be maintained properly once in a while and if ignored, it will cost to repair them if they malfunction for some unknown reason!
If and when we retirees are long gone dead and buried, will our surviving spouse know how to operate, monitor and maintain such an expensive solar powered system? I know my wife wouldn't be able to do it on her own, because she is just not the technical savvy type when it comes to a solar powered system! Just something to seriously consider before installing an expensive solar powered system at a late stage of longevity of a retired aged senior citizen! That $10,000 to $20,000 can go towards other things useful and or more important, like medical/funeral expenses for the aged retiree's demise as to not put the surviving spouse into a financial hardship! ??? :o         
Title: Re:Solar Panels
Post by: Shewmake on August 25, 2014, 04:25:44 PM
Lelang, would it be presumptuous to ask how much it cost, and what percentage of your over all power usage it provides? 
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 25, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
I would need 200 watts x 2 single solar panel to run my 1HP aircon, 1x 7cubic ft refrigerator, LED tv, laptop/computer.
I am saving up to be able to do this as this would save me a tremendous amount of money! Without solar panel, I am paying on my monthly electric bill Php6,500!!!

Lelang,  sorry, but 400 watts of solar panels will only output 400 watts of power under ideal conditions.
In the Philippines, 400 watts of panels can be expected, on average, to produce 2000 watts per day.
( average of 5 hours of usable solar insolation per day )

The appliances that you mentioned, would use about....

1Hp A/C  = 0.78 kW = 18.72 kWh/day. Assume it cycles on thermostat at 50/50  =  9.36 kWh/day
Fridge     = 0.2 kW = 4.8 kWh/day.   Assume it cycles on thermostat at 50/50  =  2.4kWh/day
LED TV    = 0.1 kW = 2.4kWh/day.    Assume it is on for 4 hrs per day =  0.4 kWh/day
Laptop     = 0.09kW = 2.16kWh/day. Assume it is on for 6 hrs per day = 0.54 kWh/day

Just these appliances alone would require 12.7 kWh  of power per day.
Your 400 watts of panels will give you about 2 kWh  per day on average ( some days more, some less )

Sorry, but by my calculations, 400 watts of panels is very well short of what is required.
Plus, the panels will only produce meaningful power for about 5 hours per day, you will need to store the rest in batteries,
with some allowance for rainy days, cloudy days, etc.

Just to break even would require 10 kW of battery storage. ( plus chargers and inverters )
This is roughly equivelant to 10 "normal" car batteries. ( reality would triple this number )

You will need to go back to the drawing board.....

Have  a look at your power bill. You will be able to see how many kWh of power you have used over the billing period.
Do the math and figure out your actual DAILY consumption.
Only then can you start to design a system



Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: ronnsb on August 26, 2014, 05:59:28 AM
Leinster Lad...here I am telling you I can't afford solar, but my girl there in Tapaz just got a 75w solar panel and is adding a battery and an inverter this week. LOL She is ahead of me! They STILL do not have power where she is in Tapaz, and so she will at least be able to charge her phone and maybe her laptop. She does not have internet either. We are hoping to resolve that soon!

I saw your calcs on the appliances and I see what you are saying about 400w not being enough for her.

I am seeing 5kw systems being sold there in the Philippines, but they say you need to email them for the cost of the kit. Let me know if you run in to any decent systems in the 3kw to 5kw range. Got to start out small! :)

Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Leinster Lad on August 26, 2014, 08:29:28 AM
I am seeing 5kw systems being sold there in the Philippines, but they say you need to email them for the cost of the kit. Let me know if you run in to any decent systems in the 3kw to 5kw range. Got to start out small! :)


Hi Ron,
Here in Perth, a mid/high quality 5kW system, fully installed is about $7500  ( PHP300,000 )
Systems are normally "oversized".
This means that it is common to put 6kW or 7kW of panels on a 5kW inverter. I have 5.7kW on a 5kW inverter.

You can see my system live..... here   http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217 (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217)

( 5kW inverter is the maximum size allowed in Australia )


Now, i know that things are different in the Philippines....... but that should give you an idea.

Panels mainly come out of China, so shipping to the Philippines should be cheaper than shipping them down here.
Inverters are the same, China or Malaysia or Taiwan. The best ones ( SMA ) come out of Germany.
Labour (installation ) is definitely cheaper in the Philippines.

I do believe that there is a massive market for soalr in the Philippines, if only people are not so obsessed with ripping people off.
The government and power companies ( Meralco ) certainly are not helping due to the fact that they really have no idea what is going on.
Even though there were laws passed on this very subject over 4 years ago.........
Maybe the power companies are scared of losing income if people become self-sufficient ?






Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: lelang1130 on August 26, 2014, 08:33:56 AM
HI  Leinster Lad, thanks for your thoughts. Will tell my brother. I'm no techy person just like you^^ I let my brother handle all this matter....I don't know how my bro does this things with an inverter but I do have confidence in him because we had been using solar panel now in my hometown for the past few months. Solar panels nowadays had cut down its prices dramatically. A 75 watts solar panel used to cost Ph8,000 but now prices has gone down to Php4,000 (made in Germany) and you can find them in Raon, Quiapo.

Hi Ronnsb, great job on your girl! Installing solar panel is a must nowadays for places that usually runs out of electricity/black out just like my hometown in Camarines Sur! Please let us know how well things are doing once your solar panel has been installed.

Hi Art, believe me I know how expensive they are that's why I need my few months salary saved just to be able to install one in my apartment. I'm no rich woman but I seriously consider long term savings. If you guys need any help with a solar panel, I can have my bro speak with you or help in any way.

Title: Solar panels
Post by: fred on August 26, 2014, 08:51:04 AM
Tell him to look in CDR king.. The prices of panels seem to have gone up a bit but an 80 watt panel is now about 3,200..
Ive seen some pretty good reviews about them online from people that have had them for a couple of years.



Hi Shewmake,

I will check with my brother as he's the one who installed our solar panel and I'll get back to you with details including costing :-) The only info I can give is our additional 75watts solar panel which we purchased in Raon, Quiapo two weeks ago costed us Php4,000 but because we already have existing solar panel in our house back in Cam Sur, we did not buy inverter and battery anymore.
Title: Re:Solar Panels
Post by: lelang1130 on August 26, 2014, 09:06:20 AM
Panels from CDR are china made. My bro prefers Made in Germany due to quality.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on August 26, 2014, 10:24:33 AM
Hi Art, believe me I know how expensive they are that's why I need my few months salary saved just to be able to install one in my apartment. I'm no rich woman but I seriously consider long term savings. If you guys need any help with a solar panel, I can have my bro speak with you or help in any way.
I'm a retired aircraft technician by trade for 30 yrs and if only I was 20-30 yrs younger, it wouldn't be a problem for me to install our own solar powered system in our home here in the Philippines, but since I am no longer able to do manual labor anymore, I guess we just have to forego with the solar powered system, unless they come down in price for parts and labor during my lifetime!  ::) ??? :o ;)
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on August 26, 2014, 08:12:20 PM
To add to my OP, I have nothing against solar powered systems, far from it! For me, it's the cost of renovating our home, because I still want to construct a terrace out in back with a trellis with adjustable solar panel arrays on top of the trellis!
Just imagine how much we would have to spend on constructing a terrace approximately 20ft x 60ft and trellis just slightly smaller than that with solar panel arrays on top at the entire back yard of our home with a view without any obstructions? I would roughly estimate it at over $40,000!
Our little home here in Sta Rosa, Laguna NCR of Luzon back in 1999 cost us about $70,000 (including our little lot of only 187 sq. meters) to build our home from scratch from start to finish in only 6 months, since our home is of a prefabricated construction building method with a Spanish style tile roof made from molded cement! 
So in other words, construction cost has risen about 40% since 1999, but it's still in the back recesses of my mind of the possibilities to still construct our future plan for a terrace, trellis and a solar powered system all at the same time, but within our budget and possibly during my lifetime! Anyways, It's all in the planning when one is still young and earning a good living to afford it to reap their investment after 5 to 7 years and or out of necessity in one's area with constant power outages! 
I just don't want to break into our piggy bank just yet, but we'll see in a few more years from now to determine if it will still be a go ahead signal! ::) :o

I couldn't find an actual similar design of our purposed terrace construction with a trellis and solar panels, but the below pics should to do to get an idea of what we want constructed in our back yard attached to our home:

Example of the trellis I want to be on top of our purposed terrace construction
http://tinyurl.com/o9noe39 (http://tinyurl.com/o9noe39)

My purposed similar solar panel array arrangement on top of the trellis
http://tinyurl.com/lctemrd (http://tinyurl.com/lctemrd)
 
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: ronnsb on August 26, 2014, 11:54:22 PM
I am seeing 5kw systems being sold there in the Philippines, but they say you need to email them for the cost of the kit. Let me know if you run in to any decent systems in the 3kw to 5kw range. Got to start out small! :)

Hi Ron,
Here in Perth, a mid/high quality 5kW system, fully installed is about $7500  ( PHP300,000 )
Systems are normally "oversized".
You can see my system live..... here   
Maybe the power companies are scared of losing income if people become self-sufficient ?
I saw your stats...cool! And yes, I agree about the oversizing. I will be in the Philippines in Feb of next year and I will look into solar and pricing. My main job will be to get my girl on the internet, so we can save about $150 (PHP6,570) per month in communicating with each other!

You are probably right about them losing money if too many people start installing solar!
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: ronnsb on August 27, 2014, 12:02:15 AM
Hi Ronnsb, great job on your girl! Installing solar panel is a must nowadays for places that usually runs out of electricity/black out just like my hometown in Camarines Sur! Please let us know how well things are doing once your solar panel has been installed.
Thanks Lelang! I'm so proud of her taking on the initiative to do this! They have not had power in most of her brgy (close to Tapaz) since the typhoon last November, and just to get even a little bit of power would help. I am going to have to look up where your hometown is. :) I plan on being in Iloilo next Feb and I may have questions for your bro. I will definitely let you know when her system is up and running.
Title: Re: Solar Panels.
Post by: iamjames on October 30, 2014, 02:29:51 AM
Here's a wonderful Solar Powered idea being availed of to utilise used Telephone Kiosks in the UK. It is designed to recharge Cellphones etc. as a short term solution - and is solar powered. When they get the new faster charger systems developed it will only take 3 mins to charge a phone.