Living In The Philippines Forum

It’s Your Money => Securing Your Family's Financial Future => Topic started by: JoeLP on December 28, 2014, 07:14:02 PM

Title: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: JoeLP on December 28, 2014, 07:14:02 PM
First, I mean no disrespect to our member who just lost her husband, so I hope this doesn't bother her.  I'm curious on what the plans are for those on here when their time comes.

I didn't have any plans when I moved here.  None at all and was blind sided by that question by Tina a few months back.  Truth is I never in my life thought about it.  Just figured I'd be cremated and have my ashes thrown to the waves either of Lake Michigan or the Pacific. 

Now Tina and I are in the process of buying 4 "plots" at the new cemetery here in Catarman.  These are not grave plots, but plots to build the "New Orleans" style family sites with above ground setups.  We are buying 4 with 2 for her an my family and our following generations for how ever long they plan to use it and then we'll give the other two lots to her family to build their own place and do as they wish with it.  We saw one of the styles we want there and liked the whole "room" inside where family can go visit it in any weather and stay dry inside.  Granted, the style we saw had two coffins for the whole "showing" pre burial, then later the surface under the coffins is moved back and the body is removed from the coffin and dropped down. 

First I ever seen of these honestly.  All my family, except my mother, were, are to be buried.  So always went to the "hole in the ground" to see the coffin lowered.

Sorry if too graphic for some in my description, no sickness intended.  But when I read a response to that thread, it got me thinking of how many others here may have not planned yet for what's going to happen to them/their family when that time comes pertaining to their body. 

I actually planned the whole financial side of things, but never thought, for some crazy reason that I can't fathom, to plan what happens to my body.  For all I cared, and borrowing from a friends idea, just cremate me, put my ashes in a coconut shell with fireworks, and make me bright as the stars to send me out.  Now I have a plan.(Actually, Tina has a plan, I'm just going along with it, it was better than what I had)
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: iamjames on December 29, 2014, 01:43:54 AM
Won't be my problem when the time comes. Couldn't care less if they feed me to the fish. Cremation and the garbage bag would be my preferred option - maybe I'll make plans for that.  :D
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lee2 on December 29, 2014, 01:57:53 AM
I already told my wife, have me cremated and spread my ashes in the ocean, so she can come visit me at oceans edge wherever in the world she happens to be.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: billmc on December 29, 2014, 02:39:56 AM
I've always told my wife, go ahead and have me cremated and don't bother to pick up the ashes.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 29, 2014, 03:18:47 AM
Wow billmc, it has been awhile since your last post! I guess you've been busy with work and what the "human rat race" in the U.S. has to offer. So, how many more years before you retire? You ever build that house yet on the lot you both bought? Does your wife still have second thoughts about retiring in the Philippines? My wife and I have been retired here in NCR of Luzon going on 18 yrs and still loving it here!
Anyways, welcome back and hope you post more often.
Oh about the OP, it's cremation for me too! I told my wife if she ever has thoughts about flushing my ashes down the toilet, I will come back to haunt to her!  ::) ??? :o ;)   
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: BudM on December 29, 2014, 07:35:12 AM
I had often thought about getting cremated, then packed in a MK-106 practice bomb to be dropped off a USN jet in to the deep blue but I doubt they would be willing to do that for me as I am only a bottom of the totem pole vet.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: coleman2347 on December 29, 2014, 10:28:21 AM
Maline plans on burying me on our farm, we are in the process of designating a piece of land just for the family...
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Killjoygreg on December 29, 2014, 02:38:32 PM
We have no plans and have only discussed it fleetingly. Personally I would request to deal with my remains as simply as possible. If it is here in the Philippines I have no idea what that would entail. If back in Australia then cremation it would be. Having said that if my wife goes first then I would
probably  do something more fancy. And she probably would for me too. A lot will depend on our financial situation when the time comes. Certainly would never insure for it. But then we don't insure for much at all.
Still we are hoping that's many years off.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 29, 2014, 04:32:43 PM
I've noticed in the Philippines that more Memorial Cemeteries have been coming up with a lot of various plans one can buy to handle and manage burials services for families. We just had a new Memorial Cemetery constructed a few miles from our home that sells burial plans of all sorts.
Here's the one near us and they have others located elsewhere.

http://www.eternalgardens.ph/ (http://www.eternalgardens.ph/)
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: wildbill on December 30, 2014, 01:24:02 AM
I am some what of a loner person.I don't have much Family back in the states at all.The ones that are still alive could care less about me.I do like friends but seem to make my share of mistakes.My pinay wife and The Filipino people have made me very happy for the first time in my life.If I have disrespected any of you plz forgive me for my past remarks....I told my wife just to cremate me and throw me away wer ever she likes.save the money for her.not to waste..
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on December 30, 2014, 01:54:05 AM
You're not alone Bill. I'm sort of like you that I too have a few family, relatives and friends in the U.S. that cares less about me. It's just my wife and I and a hand full of relatives and friends here in the Philippines and that's OK by me. Life goes on! 
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: paulgee on December 30, 2014, 03:35:25 AM
We bought a burial plot in a private cemetery a year or so ago. It will be chance  whether I die in the Philippines or the UK, but wherever it is I want to be buried in the Philippines. Presumably a UK death would entail taking my ashes back to the Philippines.

From what I have seen of funerals in the Philippines  I like the way they are carried out, with more involvement of family and friends than the usual 'day out' of funerals in the UK.

Fortunately I am a very patient man and will be happy to hang around for some while yet before discovering how my funeral plans are to be carried out!








Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: BudM on December 30, 2014, 08:24:55 PM
I am some what of a loner person.I don't have much Family back in the states at all.The ones that are still alive could care less about me.I do like friends but seem to make my share of mistakes.My pinay wife and The Filipino people have made me very happy for the first time in my life.If I have disrespected any of you plz forgive me for my past remarks....I told my wife just to cremate me and throw me away wer ever she likes.save the money for her.not to waste..

Yeah, don't feel like the lone ranger here wb.  You, Art, and I are all appear to be in the same boat.  I suspect there are a few more like us on here too.  I basically have my aunt and a cousin as far as my relatives.  Since, '79 when my grandpa passed, the rest have all played cut throat with one another so much that as far as I am concerned, they can all take a flying leap.  I do have a few friends left there.  Mostly Filipino for that matter.  Since I decided to come here, and mostly since I met my wife, I did not really enjoy life to its fullest.  No where near it.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 05, 2015, 09:46:17 PM
Bing and Dan moved to Baguio City from Cavite five years ago for the cool weather. Nice lovely couple, we became like family. He is a widower from Austria and had worked and retired from Canada as well.  Due to his being overweight and health problems, Dan hardly can walk and so is homebound. The only time he goes out is when he goes to see his doctor and so my brother goes along to help them. He got no medical insurance. According to Bing, they can't get married otherwise he will lose his Austrian pension. He gets Canadian pension drawn from his Canadian account, issued a check to Bing which she deposit in her Philippines account and withdraw it later on. His Austrian pension, she said, stay in an Account in Austria and his wheelchair bound lawyer son in Canada took care of it. She also said he got a house in Canada and willed  it to his son with the condition that if he needed money, his son will take care of it.

I admire Bing.... she takes good care of Dan, she is very down to earth, has a happy disposition and has plenty of friends from her church and is known for her kind generosity. Dan adores her.

Eight days ago, Bing woke me up in the middle of the night crying and a bit hysterical, Dan just slumped in his chair. When I went to see him, I know he suffered from stroke. Losing no time, I said to call an ambulance(it's free). Dan with slurred speech refused to go to the hospital, no money he said. Bing insisted. In 15 minutes the ambulance came but I have to go to the highway nearby to wait for them so they know where to go. Five EMT's plus my brother had a hard time lifting him up to the 5 stairs and to the ambulance.To make the story short, he  stayed in the ICU for the duration. On his second day, the hospital wanted a deposit. On the his fourth day, they ask to settle the account, other wise he be discharged. Bing was able to withdraw this month's pension and his son sent 2000 Canadian dollars as deposit. Today Dan passed away...his bill as of today excluding doctor's fee, 170,000 pesos. Due to time differences, Bing was unable to talk to Dan's son in Canada. The hospital needed to be paid and so I had to pitch in a few thousand pesos for deposit and talked to the Director to give Bing a promisory note. It's a blessing that Bing bought a funeral plan in Cavite during the time she worked abroad and transferred the plan for Dan's use. She has to pay 15,000 extra though for a bigger casket to fit him. I mentioned about cremation as a simple and cheaper option and Bing said, the son has to decide. Bing wanted to have the body in the funeral home and the video send to the relatives abroad and for her to keep. If the son wanted him cremated...so be it, at an extra fee of 30,000 pesos. She talked also about having the usual 40 days prayer for the dead in their place where they rent. This means having a lot of his supportive church friends for 40 nights and then she goes back to Cavite.

Bing is very hopeful that the son will send all the money needed for the hospital bill and dad's funeral...and for some reason it made me cringe. I hope so. At the back of my mind, what if the son has no money upfront? Why did they not try to save some money for emergencies? I know a lot of Filipino friends and relatives here, when they have emergencies, medical or death in the family, they rely on immediate relatives abroad. But in their case, they have the resources and why did Dan entrusted his resources to his son? Why did he not think of Bing and plan when the time comes? We all can learn from their situation.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on September 05, 2015, 10:14:00 PM
Our condolences go out to Bing and may Dan RIP. We all will never know what state of mind a retiree may be in managing their finances beyond their golden years. Only they know what their own reasons are for doing things their own way. 
Looks like Bing will have a lot of talking to do with Dan's son in Canada in order to settle all of Dan's affairs and find out where she stands after all is said and done.   
Your topic question? We all have to do what's within our means and do the right thing for our immediate family when our time comes.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 06, 2015, 08:21:26 AM
Thanks Kuya. I do feel for Bing for what she is going thru...she is taking it hard, grieving for the loss of Dan and yet had to go thru all these complicated financial details which could have been avoided with proper planning. There is no point, however, emphasizing what's already done and let this serve as a lesson for some of us who read this and have not thought of it.

While we are on the subject, I have been to a few funerals in the province since I came back. I was struck with the grandiose preparation to bury their love ones, especially those with money or who's family come from abroad. They buy the most expensive caskets and flower bouquets, every night until the dead is buried, there's prayer, card playing, madjong, pigs gets butchered, pansit, arrozcaldo, drinks, coffee, sandwiches, cookies were served with a hired singer on the background singing thru the night. At the time of the funeral, a marching band is on hand, a videographer is hired, a mass is offered in the church where people line up to pay their last respect and offer condolences to the whole family. Five or more pigs, a cow maybe, gets also butchered to feed people from different barangays. Not my money, so it's not my business but I thought "where are the priorities?". I mentioned it to the parish priest who happened to grow up in Hawaii and he agreed about the commercialization of burying our dead. What if some of these funds spent for the dead is spent on the living instead donated in memory of the dead to a good cause in the community? There's so much poverty surrounding us and public display of wealth, or spending what we don't have, only exacerbates the wide divide of the rich and the poor and make people poorer. During a close family gathering, I broached the idea of when my time comes, I don't want to be butchered and injected with chemicals and to bury me quick! A simple handmade wooden casket is fine, no China made non biodegrable casket. I want a simple ceremony, a mass/ prayer session  attended with only close friends and relative.  Snacks and drinks can be serve. The same ceremony to be done with my elderly parents when their time comes. I was met with sarcastic smiles. There was a chorus, are you not ashamed of what people say? That's the way things are done. People will THINK our family are a bunch of cheapskates! When I asked if someone can shoulder the funeral expenses, they all keep quiet. So I said, if I am shouldering the expenses, then my wish shall be done! Otherwise, I shall come back and haunt you all, I joked. Sometime ago, I watched a short movie where a casket is being followed by a colorful attired attendees and dancing to a lively music Lol. I like that! They are celebrating, I believe, cuz their love one is going home to be with our creator. Actually, my dad said, when me and your mom are gone, it doesn't matter how you all decide to have us buried. He is a WW2 veteran and usually in my hometown, veterans are honored and attended by the organizations members. At least in my hometown, there's 2 public cemetery of the Catholic parish where people can get buried for free. I am sure tongues will be wagging in the community and knowing me, having lived in the US and considered rich(not true, lol), many would be shock but do I care?
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Kurt on September 06, 2015, 10:05:22 AM
I've decided to help nature. I'm going to feed the crocks up in North Queensland, Australia. No one has anything to worry about then. LOL.  .......Cheers. Kurt
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: coleman2347 on September 09, 2015, 02:10:18 PM
I can be buried at the military cemetery  in Clark, Maline and I just came back from AC, she was impressed how neat the place was, and said it would be good if thats where I wanted to be buried...
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 10, 2015, 12:11:20 AM
An addendum to what I posted.

Dan's hospital unpaid bill came up to 200,000 plus 80,000 pesos for the funeral home cost for the 4 days. It turned out he has no savings, no medical coverage, no wills, is applying for PRA visa but no money deposited so far. Bing talks about Dan and his son been fighting in court in Canada prior to coming here in the Philippines. The son in Canada decided he will pay for the funeral cost but not the hospital bills. Not paying the hospital bills means no death certificate. Can't cremate or bury him without death certificate. The hospital will issue the death certificate only if half of the bill is paid for, a promisory note backed by a collateral and with 2 signatories. I can't do anything about that either. So I contacted the Canadian embassy for some info and report a death, they're very helpful, they checked the veracity of my statement by calling the funeral home and they had been calling me to check on the progress. Dan, being a Permanent resident of Canada and a Citizen of Austria, I was told to contact the Austrian Embassy and that they take the lead in pursuing the case. The Austrian embassy told me to send a report of the death, a death or medical certificate and a passport photocopy which I did this morning. Bing is frustrated and going crazy (her words) about the whole thing. Meanwhile, days goes by at the funeral home at 5,000 pesos per day charge plus incidentals, food, transportation, etc.

My question...what if Bing abandon Dan's body at the funeral home, it does sounds very cruel, but I would not blame her at all for lack of resources and the stress of dealing with it. She signed the initial promisory note and it's past due. What will happen to the body? Will the country of origin claim it and pay for the bills if the family abroad does not recognized it? I did touched on the subject when I was talking on the phone to a lady at the embassy. She was curt and businesslike in her reply..don't make any promises that we will pay! Just send in the paperworks. Does anybody has any idea in this regard? I would really appreciate any reply. 
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: hitekcountry on September 10, 2015, 01:15:07 AM
It was Dan’s decision to trust his son with his assets instead of Bing. He is now reaping the consequences of that decision. Bing is not to feel at fault. She doesn’t have the ability and therefor does not have the responsibility.

Responsibility = ability to respond.

If you want to pursue this, I did have one thought. Would it be possible to find out the news media in his area/city, newspaper/TV and send them the story including pictures (pictures are important) of Dan and Bing and maybe even of Dan in the hospital and let them know how Dan’s son is not willing to take care of his dead father’s bills. He probably would not be acting this way if this was happening in his town where his friends and neighbors would hear about it. He probably feels with it all happening in the Philippines he can abandon his father without anyone knowing. Maybe his friends and neighbors will help him decide to do the right thing.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 10, 2015, 07:23:55 AM
Nice thoughts hitekcountry, that's worth pursuing. Also one of our members here from Canada PM me offering some help and to look into the common law statutes of Canada with the exception of Quebec. We have been digging into some court documents here in Dan's possession and will try to contact his BC lawyer and ask for info or help. One of these days I will accompany Bing to the Austrian/Canadian embassy and inquire also. I haven't heard from the Austrian embassy yet and will follow up also today.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: hitekcountry on September 10, 2015, 08:05:32 AM
Julie

It’s a good and honorable thing for you to help Bing in her time of need.

God bless you.

Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on September 10, 2015, 10:59:48 AM
Yes Julie, you are in deed a very honest, trust worthy and good person to help Bing in her time of need. It's truly an honor and pleasure to have met you in person in the short time we got to know you and now consider you as our friend. 
I hope with your help, Bing can eventually resolve her delima. Best wishes and good luck in your efforts to help Bing manage Dan's personal affairs without too much difficulties, which is really an under statement, which we all know will not be an easy task to do, even for anyone in Bing's  particular situation, which I feel has gotten everyone's attention on here in how important it is to manage a loved one's personal affairs after he/she has passed on and receives the appropriate widow's benefits one is legally entitled to under local and international laws.       
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 10, 2015, 01:53:38 PM
Salamat po! Speaking of God's Blessing, yesterday, a huge packet from Dan's British Columbia lawyer came in the mail. It contained all the legal matters between Dan and his lawyer son. Reading it was a revelation. Dan did not die a pauper after all as he's got a house in his late wife's name that he entrusted to his lawyer son. At one point, he gave a power of attorney to his son's Chinese common law wife who turned around and mortgaged it. This was rescinded by court later as an illegal activity. Then Dan transferred the house to his son's name with the bargain that the son will take care of his needs. It's a mess. Dan first came to stay in the Philippines in 2011. When Dan, who was barely able to take care of himself, went back to Canada more than a year ago to settle his estate, his son put him in his in laws apartment as Dan's house was rented out. As court battle ensues, his son evicted him and his only option was to contact the home for the aged or go back to Bing in the Philippines. He chose the later. His share for the house according to the court is 130,000 but the son settled in court to pay 30,000 dollars instead which Dan had no choice to accept as he said,  he was sick, tired and worried about his failing health and wanted to go back to Bing in the Philippines. He didn't get the 30,000 in lump sum. In addition, he sent blank checks for his son to withdraw from his Canadian pension for the PRA visa application. It's been a year but he never got to receive the money for the purpose. According to Bing, the son sent 2,000 dollars for his dad's cataract operation a few months ago, another 2,000 for the PRA appication, 2,000 for the hospital deposit and the last was 4,000 for the funeral home.  I guess, the rest of the money was for attorneys fees! Lol.

I was able to contact the Austrian embassy just now to follow up on my email that I sent yesterday morning. I was scolded to be patient as they received about 300 emails everyday. Well I shot back madam can someone at least send me an acknowledgement that you received my email and the required attachments and doing your part since this is an emergency matter? Hehe, hence the scolding. Now I am thinking, she was probably upset with me cuz I addressed her Madam! Hehe,In the Philippines, the word can have a negative connotation. Opps! And not to tell her what to do! Well I did apologized to her majesty. In comparison with the Canadian embassy, all the consul asked me are personal info of the deceased, and then they did the calling themselves to verify the information I gave. On top of that, they even called me several times to follow up on the progress! That's excellent service!

Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on September 10, 2015, 03:15:27 PM
Julie,
From what you found out so far, Dan is financially broke in Canada and his lawyer son made sure of that, unless he still has assets in Austria, when the Austrian Embassy gets back with you or if you are able to make contact with Dan's relatives in Austria to find out if he still has any assets.
When our neighbor's British spouse died, she went through the same running around to take care of her husbands affairs and medical bills worth over P1.3 million, but she managed it all some how all on her own! She's a private independent person with a 10 yr old daughter, she's the type that doe not reply on family, friends and or relatives.     
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 10, 2015, 08:27:23 PM
I realized I should have been a little more careful about my criticism with the lady I talked to at the Austrian Embassy. That was insensitive and rude of me to make a jest out of it. I think it's the intonation that I presumed to be unfriendly and my first reaction to it was negative. Sorry.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Hestecrefter on September 11, 2015, 02:28:32 AM
Interesting thread, about the plight of the wife of "Dan."

I would not hold out much hope that the government of Canada or Austria will step up to the plate and pick up the tab for funeral or medical expenses.  Nor should they. Why should the taxpayers have to shoulder the bills of those who failed to provide for themselves? 

As well, I find the figures being bandied about quite extraordinary.  Does the average Filipino have P20,000 a day for the body to be warehoused at the funeral home?  And P15,000 to supersize the casket? 

As for the whole debacle between Dan and his son (who appears to be an attorney from what has been said) it sounds like he won't likely be coaxed into doing much more.  He's half a world away and cannot really be forced to do that he cares not to do. 

Some have suggested contacting the media where the son lives with a view to carrying out a public shaming.  Almost like the Phils, it's easy to be sued for defamation in Canada and I doubt any responsible media outlet will have much appetite for buying into a potential lawsuit.  Moreover, in the ordinary course, family members have no personal liability for the debts of a deceased family member, although the executor of a will or administrator of an estate has a duty to pay debts out of the deceased's assets.

Here, it sounds as though the son gave some kind of undertaking to pay the father's debts in exchange for property or something of value.  So, there might be a remedy in contract.  The son also appears to be in default in sending funds for a visa application.  But pursuing these things through legal channels would involve someone able to act as a representative of the deceased prosecuting an action against the son in Canada.  Said "someone" would almost certainly be asked to put up a retainer in the range of CAD10,000 (P350,000).

As a practical matter, the suggestion of abandoning the body, while distasteful, might be a course of prudence.  Short of moral suasion being employed to effect, there's not much prospect for a white knight coming to the rescue.

As an aside, my guess is that Dan's son. who apparently has some access to his father's pension funds, is still collecting the pension.  Why not just keep quiet about the death for awhile?  From what has been said about the son, it sounds as though his moral compass is in serious need of recalibration.  But, in the end, I cannot repose a great deal of confidence in the story being presented.  That is not to attribute fault to anyone, but simply to acknowledge the fact that the information is being passed through many hands and might suffer some defects in accuracy and completeness as a result.  I make this observation in light of a few peculiar aspects to the story, such as Dan and son were involved in litigation in Canada.  Dan got worn down and made a most improvident settlement.  Yet he still allows his son to somehow have control over/access to some pension resource.  Dan must be taken to have known that he could have his pension paid to some financial institution in Canada, Austria or the Phils and have the ability to draw on it without his son's intermeddling.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: bcnorth on September 11, 2015, 07:40:09 AM
With due deference to you Mr. Hestecrefter, a Canadian, I take issue with several of your remarks. As an example, you write, “I would not hold out much hope that the government of Canada or Austria will step up to the plate and pick up the tab for funeral or medical expenses.” If you read what the friend (Lei) of Dan, the dead husband, and Bing, the dead wife, writes you see that what she initially attempted to do was exactly what you suggested might be done. That is, without having money available, “abandoning the body . . . might be a course of prudence.“ Lei contacted both the Canadian and the Austrian embassies because it was necessary to pay the hospital to obtain a death certificate that was needed in order to create or bury Dan. As it turned out both the Canadian embassy and the Austrian embassy undoubtedly realized there was a problem and asked for a substantial amount of information before they could proceed. At one point Lei was confused because the lady she talked to from the Austrian embassy replied curtly, “don’t make any promises that we will pay.” It was then that Lei went to this board and asked for help, “Does anybody have any idea in this regard?” I do credit you Mr. Hestercrefter for taking the time to give Lei and Bing advice.

There is another  important issue Lei touches on; she writes that she and Bing are pursuing the issue of common law marriage in Canada.  We know from comments made by Lei it is likely Dan was, or had been, a resident of British Columbia for she mentions his B.C. lawyer. What we don’t know is whether Dan and Bing ever lived together while he was a legal resident of B.C. and/or whether he was filing Canadian federal and B.C. provincial taxes while he was living in the Philippines. If he was then it is likely Dan and Bing would legally be considered to be in a legal common law relationship/marriage. Since March of this year the Province of British Columbia considers the rights and responsibilities of a common law marriage to be equal to that of a normally registered marriage. The reason this is important are the words of Canada Pension. “ If you have lived or worked in Canada and in another country, or you are the survivor of someone who has lived or worked in Canada and in another country, you may be eligible for pensions and benefits from Canada and/or from the other country because of a social security agreement. “ Dan’s body may never be made up for a funeral and Bing may now be going through hell, but most important is that there is a good chance she will receive Dan’s Canadian pension benefits.

I certainly am not trying to get after you Mr. Hestecrefter about Canadian common law relationships because in British Columbia the new legislation on common law marriages has the B.C legal profession in a real quandary on how attorneys should advise their clients on the issue. 
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Hestecrefter on September 11, 2015, 09:04:28 AM
Well, bcnorth, an example of my remarks with which you take issue is my expressed doubt about the willingness of the government of either Canada or Austria to step in to cover medical and/or funeral costs.  You follow your quotation of my words with a long dissertation, but I am not able to discern just what I have said you consider to be in error.  I take it you are saying that, contrary to my doubts on the topic, either or both of those governments will, in fact, play the role of guarantor or indemnitor.  On what basis do you hold that opinion?  Perhaps you are correct, but I am just curious from whence you draw support for your contrary view, if such it be.

As for the other “important issue” touched upon, about “pursuing the issue of a common law marriage in Canada”, I must confess I did not even see anything about that in this thread until you brought it up.  I must have overlooked it.  But if I missed the point and did not address it, why “take issue” with my remarks?  My post utters not a word on the topic.  I said nothing whatsoever about whether Bing has any right to Dan’s Canadian pension benefits.  Let me pause at this point to say that I know neither Dan nor Bing and I intend no inappropriate familiarity or disrespect in referring to them by their first names.  You conclude your paragraph by saying “but most important is that there is a good chance she will receive Dan’s Canadian pension benefits.”  I never suggested otherwise. 

Kindly allow me equal time in taking issue with remarks.  You comment: “Since March of this year the Province of British Columbia considers the rights and responsibilities of a common law marriage to be equal to that of a normally registered marriage.”  Just what, pray tell, is your authority for that sweeping proposition?  What happened in March 2015 that I missed?  The Family Law Act replaced the Family Relations Act in March 2013.

You say:  “the new legislation on common law marriages has the B.C legal profession in a real quandary on how attorneys should advise their clients on the issue.”  Really?  If the “new legislation” is the FLA, it has been with us since March 2013.  I do not think any family law specialist in this province is in any doubt at all about the application of the FLA.  There have been continuing legal education courses and a fair number of cases at all levels of the BC courts, and a few from the Supreme Court of Canada, providing interpretation and guidance.  Anyone left in a quandary has no business practicing law.

I practiced law in B.C. for nigh on 30 years.  My current work requires me to keep up on the law, inter alia, by reading all cases from the B.C. Provincial Court, Supreme Court and Court of Appeal and all Supreme Court of Canada cases that had their genesis in B.C.  I am at a loss to follow what you are saying about B.C. family law.  I shall assume from your words that you are a barrister and solicitor of the B.C. Supreme Court and that you can enlighten me. 

So, like you, I am not trying to “get after you”, but simply to be informed. 
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 11, 2015, 01:20:19 PM
Thank you gentlemen for the enlightenment. I am no match to both your wit and intelligence so I just touch on some issues and  facts.
1. The funeral home cost 5,000 pesos per day. Today, we transferred the body to a more reasonable funeral home just outside the Baguio City at half the price. My thoughts of "what if Bing abandon the body" is just a point of discussion  and I can guarantee it's not going to happen. I know Bing very well and  as a friend, my conscience dictates, I have to do what is right.
2. The 15, 000, yes that's right, it is to supersize the casket.

Hestecrefter, you said why should the taxpayer, I presumed you mean the people of both well off countries, Canada and Austria or in general have to provide for those who fail to provide for themselves? I agree, but in the US, it's happening all the time! Welfare (subsidized housing, food stamps, medicaid) medicare cost is an all time high and is bankrupting the country. Worst, In my profession, I have known many who give away their resources to their immediate family and so they can qualify to be taken care by the government at a huge cost. Ok that's besides the point.  My question, if a foreigner died in the Philippines while on vacation and has no resources and no family or family is not obligated to pay for the expenses to repatriate cremate bury the body, why should we poor Filipinos have the burden of having to deal/pay for it. Now that reminds me to see the city government/official for help/advice as you could be right, the Austrian or Canadian government might not be able to help. But if this happened in my hometown in the province, with or without death certificate, out of respect, we are going to bury the dead. It's sad and an outrage that a dead body should be kept hostage due to lack of money or unable to pay his bills.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: bcnorth on September 11, 2015, 01:32:03 PM
I apologize Mr Hestercrefter, I need to be clearer with shorter remarks. I know little about the issue at hand other that what has been presented. Lei writes: “Not paying the hospital bills means no death certificate. Can't cremate or bury him without death certificate. The hospital will issue the death certificate only if half of the bill is paid. . .” She contacted the embassies about how to go about getting a death certificate. You are right, there is also a financial issue; my disagreement with you is over what was of primary importance for Lei and Bing.
 Lei touches on the common law marriage issue in Canada in one sentence and states she and her friend will look into it. I wrote you, “I certainly am not trying to get after you Mr. Hestecrefter about Canadian common law relationships . . .” for you hadn’t dealt with it. You are right I inadvertently made an error on the date of the 2013 Family Law Act. You queried me why I thought marriage common law in B.C. was controversial. The Law Society of British Columbia offers a set of Professional Legal Training Courses yearly. The courses deal with new legislation and case law that is very often troublesome and controversial. I believe such a course on marriage common law was offered last year and again this year. Common-law marriage also has been touched upon a number of times in Canadian newspapers. I also have a number of family lawyer friends with whom I discuss law and politics. I don’t know how representative they are about the legal profession but common-law marriage always is a most heated topic.   
You ask about my legal qualifications. With head bowed, I have none. However, I do read an occasional law journal and follow interesting cases. I also am interested and have written on the Philippines, its people and their culture.
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Hestecrefter on September 11, 2015, 10:59:31 PM
Fair enough bcnorth.  I was not really pressing for an apology, but you just seemed a tad quick on the trigger to take issue with what I considered to be fairly innocuous comments.  I am not altogether immune to the same weakness from time to time, so I cannot be too critical of you on that score.

You are right about the Law Society offering the PLTC yearly, but it is not open to lawyers.  It is part of the training of new lawyers, in conjunction with articling.  Ongoing training for lawyers falls primarily to the Continuing Legal Education Society of B.C.  All lawyers in the province must enroll in a minimum number of courses each year.  CLE also publishes in all areas of the law, so lawyers always have fresh material available to study.  I am sure that most of it is available to non-lawyers as well, if they have the interest and are willing to pay for the materials.

For myself, I have never really practiced family law, at least not since I was a young buck first at the bar, with little choice but to take on all files that came through the door.  But I am very familiar with the new statute and case law due to my current employment, here in BC.  I also worked in the US for a few years, as an advisor on one or two somewhat esoteric areas of the law, with cross-border issues involved.

Lei, you asked:
Quote
My question, if a foreigner died in the Philippines while on vacation and has no resources and no family or family is not obligated to pay for the expenses to repatriate cremate bury the body, why should we poor Filipinos have the burden of having to deal/pay for it. Now that reminds me to see the city government/official for help/advice as you could be right, the Austrian or Canadian government might not be able to help. But if this happened in my hometown in the province, with or without death certificate, out of respect, we are going to bury the dead. It's sad and an outrage that a dead body should be kept hostage due to lack of money or unable to pay his bills.


I suppose you raise an interesting question of international comity.  Should it be the case that "rich" countries must pay for the foibles of their citizens/permanent residents abroad in "poor" countries?  How should "rich" and "poor" be defined?  What expenses should be covered?  Medical bills?  To what extent?  Funerals?  Unpaid hotel/accommodation bills?  What level of proof should be required to show indigence on the part of the person whose bills are sought to be compensated?  Should someone be able to call an embassy and simply report such and such to be the case and the money comes jingling down the chute?  Does the rich country send an investigator?  Such vexing questions!  Let's go further and posit that a citizen of a rich country murders the head of a family in a poor country.  Should the rich country compensate the poor family for the criminal/tortious acts of its citizen?  How far should we extend vicarious liability?



Edited by Steve: Fixed the quote...
Title: Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
Post by: Lei on September 12, 2015, 07:49:57 AM
Thank you all for the comments/advice generated from my post. Time out for me.