Living In The Philippines Forum

Living in The Philippines => Education in the Philippines => Topic started by: Hestecrefter on April 15, 2018, 01:30:10 AM

Title: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on April 15, 2018, 01:30:10 AM
In another recent thread, BudM commented thus:

  I am glad my kid is not going to school in the US and that is one of the main reasons I never got married and had a kid in the US.  I did want to be responsible for bringing a kid in to the kind of crap that goes on now.

Some time ago, Coleman started a thread under this topic about education in the Phils.  It drew about 10 comments, most not painting a rosy picture of education in the Phils.

On another forum, someone made a comment about kids today feeling entitled and being generally worthless. Another poster came back with:

Lately, seeing those teens from the Parkland, FL school where the shootings occurred, has given me some hope. They speak so well and eloquently, not saying 'like' or 'ahhh' every other word. Even under all the stress they suffered, and at public speaking events, they seem to be holding it together. Whether you agree with their message or not, you have to admit these kids are no worthless sluggards. I hope the future is with kids like that.


The comment caught my attention because it reflects exactly what I had been thinking watching the same reports out of Parkland.  Perhaps just an anomaly and the rest of the kids in the US will never amount to anything.

I have lived in Canada, the US and the Phils.  My experience with education in the Phils is very limited. The son of my ex went to school in Tuguegarao and came with us when we moved to Quezon City, where he started high school.  He struggled with that.  His experience there confirmed what I already suspected.  He knew almost nothing.  I asked my girl how he could have passed every year. She explained that making a cash donation to the school would ensure a pass to the next grade.

One reason I have had for not returning to live in the PI since our son was born was concern for his education and his future.  Not only am I concerned about the overall quality of education, I am even more concerned about opportunity and the end of the process.  But this is where I really have little knowledge.  Just some guesswork.

It appears to me that lots and lots of kids in the PI attain university degrees.  But I also see a lot of those grads struggling to find employment, much less employment at what I would call "US-style" wages of say $5,000 a month or so (which is not exactly big bucks in the US today).  Yes, I see some who work in Makati offices earning very handsome amounts, but, as near as I can figure, those are people who have "connections" or are part of the PI elite.  Maybe I am wrong, but it does not appear that an ordinary Filipino (or FilAm) kid can go to school, earn top marks, and have any assurance of getting a job paying US-style wages.  They can work, if at all, for about P20,000 a month (if that), or seek to go abroad.

As for going abroad, perhaps some here can tell me, what are the chances of a FilAm kid, raised and educated in the Phils, of going abroad to the US or other western country, having their credentials recognized, and gaining employment at the same level they would have had they been born and raised in that western country?

So it is that perception of things that has prevented me from seriously considering a move back to the PI until our son completes high school.  But, as I say, it's a perception and I could be dead wrong.  Our kid appears to be fairly bright and I want him to have the best opportunities possible.  If we lived in the PI, I suppose I have sufficient resources that he could live out his days there and not have to work, but that's hardly what I want for him - to live off daddy for life. 

I'll also observe that the schooling my son has received here in Canada thus far is decidedly advanced from what I received here long years ago.  His math skills (in grade 8 at age 13) are now where mine were in grade 11.  His knowledge of geography is broad.  Recently the school superintended showed up at his school with flash cards of world flags.  Our son was able to immediately identify 162 out of 195 country flags.  I was never able to do that.  He knows world politics.  We recently returned from a road trip to Los Angeles.  We covered over 3,000 miles.  He knew something of every place we went.  In WA, we went to a restaurant that claimed to serve the best steaks in WA, or the world, or whatever.  I made the comment to our son that the steaks served were so good that President Trump was likely a regular customer.  He replied that that was unlikely, because WA is a democratic state, just like Oregon and California we would be visiting next.  He could tell me how Americans voted in most states.  I must confess to not being able to come close to matching that knowledge.  And my point here is not that our kid is some superstar; he is not.  Just an ordinary kid.  But he is receiving a good education, which includes teachings about the world.  Is the calibre of education in the Phils on a par today? 

Obviously some, like BudM, have given this vexing matter serious consideration.  I would welcome comments from those who are raising and educating kids in the Phils as to what they foresee for those kids.  If there are some who have raised kids there to adulthood, how have those kids fared?
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Lee2 on April 15, 2018, 08:30:19 AM
Well, our wives are products of that same school system, I think my wife and the many other wives and other Filipinos I have met along the way, have turned out just fine, of course some have not but many who did not, also did not attend/finish school. 

As for those educated in the U.S. and other countries, I have met a lot of people during my lifetime, who has not, some turned out okay and others turned out not so great, they all went to the same school system, so I think there is a lot more to the shaping of a person than just the schools people attend.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 15, 2018, 08:50:21 AM
As far as my son, I have already decided what he will like to do.  No, just kidding.  When he finishes high school and is 18, then of course, he is an adult.  But, I am going to do my damnest in influencing him to join the US Military.  Hopefully, it does not go downhill more than it has and in 14 years, maybe make a halfway decent rebound.  If not, and he has to resort to something else, well, the Philippine Military is getting now some halfway decent wages for a Philippine economy.

I have lost almost all faith in colleges and universities.  I could not care less if he wants further education after high school.  I only have an AA, which I got 20 years after I finished high school.  It took me a few years since I was only going part-time and I had plenty of time to see what was going on and decided that the college and/or any further college education could take a flying leap.  And the reason for that was not because it was not doing anything for me as I already had the job I would have the rest of my employment.  It was because I realized that beyond high school institutions were becoming too political and panty azz.  Yeah, maybe I could have gotten more money somewhere along the way with further education but I was no longer concerned about that for what it would cost me.

And now elementary and high schools are going the same way.  So, my boy, is going to be forced by me, to stay here until he is old enough to take off.  I hope he does not want a college education here or the US.  Although, I would help him out with it, I do not agree with what they have become and that is the besides the spiraling costs contributed to the overpaid faculties causing them to be among other things, a money pit.

That is all I will say for now.  Except that as far as the schools are here, from what I have seen, there are good and bad.  I have a nephew and niece who had stayed with us while they were in high school.  In a big city high school.  I heard a lot about what goes on at it.  Gang mentality and all that crap and lack of teachers having control of the classroom and students.  Well, the nephew seems to have learned quite a bit but is lacking in understanding some English.  The niece seems to have spent too much time on the social horizon and although she picked up English alright, she lacks knowledge of Philippine history and a little other stuff.  Now, we have our Yaya's daughter who two years ago, was going to college down in the province.  She was half way through her first year and quit.  I still do not know what happened and have not tried to get it out of her.  She has just been working for us since mid 2016.  She went to high school in the province and is a very bright girl and if I was to get her and the other two (that went to PNHS) together, she would run circles around them.  And that is with English too.

This is really all for now.  And I am going to supplement my son's education here with good quality online courses and I already know of a young guy, who is on his way to being a teacher, who has volunteered to work as a tutor (on the side) for him in science if I want.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on April 15, 2018, 09:03:16 AM
Lee, I am offering no comment about how Filipinos educated in the PI have turned out.  My wife has a very limited education because she was denied the opportunity for same.  She is intelligent, but uneducated.  Not her fault and, in my assessment, she turned out "just fine" despite some considerable adversity in growing up.  However, her income-earning capacity is modest.  But she will always have my resources to draw upon. 

The focus of my concern is for the financial future of kids raised and educated in the Phils.  That focus is not really so much on the suggestion that a PI education is inferior.  I can accept that some schools there turn out more erudite, socially adjusted, worldly and just plain smart kids than seen in western countries. We are raising our son in Canada.  By virtue of growing up and going to school here, if he completes a university education, works hard and does well, he will have a fair shot at earning an income in the range of USD5,000 per month while still in his twenties.  Many earn far more by age 30.  If he follows in my footsteps and becomes an attorney, he could easily be making $100,000/yr. by age 30.

My question is, were he to be raised and educated in the RP, would be have the same income-earning capacity and opportunity?  Could he reasonably expect to be earning USD5,000 per month in the Phils shortly after leaving school?  If not, could he easily go abroad, say to Canada, the U.S., or elsewhere, and earn in such an amount?  Would the fact that he was educated in the Phils reduce his chances when compared to the "locals", in Canada, the US, or some other western country?

I may be mistaken, in part because it's a long time since I lived in the Phils, but it strikes me that $5,000-a-month or better jobs are scarce in the Phils, unless, perhaps, one is in the elite class there or tapped into it, which many very educated and smart Filipinos do not seem to be.  I can name Filipinos I have met who are my superiors in education and intellect, but they earn a fraction of what I do.  Are they just some kind of anomaly?

So, leaving aside some of the vagaries of quality of education (I'll accept that some schools there turn out graduates that would score far higher on standardized tests than students from the US or anywhere else in the world), what assurances do PI graduates have of earning on a par with those who gain their credentials elsewhere?  As I said, I do not know.  I am curious to hear from some who have direct knowledge.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on April 15, 2018, 09:08:38 AM
BudM, your post was made while I was still replying to Lee.

What you say makes sense.  I think the US military would be an excellent choice if you can cultivate some interest.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on April 15, 2018, 10:02:57 AM
I would never compare the edIucation system here to that of the USA.   I am putting my nieces thru school (a private school), and I can tell you first hand, without question, the education in the Philippines is far far inferior to the education one would get in the USA.   Not so much a praise for the US education system, but more a smearing of education in this country.   
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 15, 2018, 10:22:52 AM
BudM, your post was made while I was still replying to Lee.

What you say makes sense.  I think the US military would be an excellent choice if you can cultivate some interest.

Yeah, I think.  I only did six years active but I worked around the military almost all my life and I think I am military minded in a lot of things.  He could enlist for a few and it would give him time to get accustomed to things and decide from there if he wants to stick with it further, do something else in the US, or come back to the Philippines.  He might stay and come back when he retires or who knows.  If he made at least a 20 year career (I probably won't see that even if they still have a 20 year retirement by then) but I should make it long enough to know that he is close to it and well on his way to a good start for a good life for himself and to check in with his mama to make sure she doesn't spend too much of her money all at once or helping the wrong people and in turn giving it away while she is still around.  He can go to college if he wants while he is in the military and be in a more desirable (to me) atmosphere while doing it.

By the way, my wife failed to attend college in her early years as her mama passed right when my wife had finished high school. She also attended school in the province as she boarded with two her cousins to go to a Catholic school in Libmanan, CamSur.  And from the quality of what her education appears to have been, I am convinced that there is better schooling out in the province in most instances.  College is important to her though and it has been almost 30 years since she was in high school.  She has seven sisters who went to college and she was the only one who did not and I think she has felt inferior to them, which if you ask me, she has done better then them.  So, a year ago, she began for a BS in Business doing trimesters.  She goes during the morning and has a group of kids who are part of "their" group who sign up for classes together, etc.  I go to her office usually once a week for a couple of hours and if in between classes, some have usually stopped by as the school is right down the road.  They are all bright kids from what I can tell and I know most of them have come from the provinces except for one of the girls is from Davao.  A couple of them appear to me to even be some kind of Einsteins.  So, it can't be all that bad.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 15, 2018, 10:24:59 AM
I would never compare the edIucation system here to that of the USA.   I am putting my nieces thru school (a private school), and I can tell you first hand, without question, the education in the Philippines is far far inferior to the education one would get in the USA.   Not so much a praise for the US education system, but more a smearing of education in this country.

I disagree with that and think it is smearing unfairly but like they say.....see below.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Peter on April 15, 2018, 12:05:25 PM
Bud.

<  ...   If not, and he has to resort to something else, well, the Philippine Military is getting now some halfway decent wages................
  ....  >

One thing to aware of, at the present time only those with "full" Filipino nationality are permitted to enrol/sign up for the Philippines' military. Dual citizens are NOT permitted to join.
Information from a Philippine Navy recruiter last month.

Similar rules are also in place for most of (elected) government posts.


Peter

Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on April 15, 2018, 12:47:04 PM
I was born here in the Philippines, but grew up in Northern and Southern Caifornia during my youth and young adult years with my older brother.
I wasn't much interested in school, as it was boring to me and felt like a waste of time.
When I graduated from highschool, a year later I joined the U.S. Air Force and they sent me to numerous technical schools to train to become an aircraft technician.
I spent 12 yrs active duty and transitioned into a Civil Service position for 18 yrs doing the same work. I retired after a combined service of 30 yrs.
I did Ok for an individual without any school smarts, but earned a decent living with the U.S. Government Department of Defense.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 15, 2018, 01:24:57 PM
Bud.

<  ...   If not, and he has to resort to something else, well, the Philippine Military is getting now some halfway decent wages................
  ....  >

One thing to aware of, at the present time only those with "full" Filipino nationality are permitted to enrol/sign up for the Philippines' military. Dual citizens are NOT permitted to join.
Information from a Philippine Navy recruiter last month.

Similar rules are also in place for most of (elected) government posts.


Peter

Ok, thanks for that info.  Did not realize that.   Chances are though, he would go to the US rather than go the OFW route somewhere else.  I am sure he will realize he could make better money outside of the Philippines and if he has the chance, to take it.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 15, 2018, 01:27:05 PM

-------------------------------------------

I did Ok for an individual without any school smarts, but earned a decent living with the U.S. Government Department of Defense.

I wasn't born in the Philippines and not even of Philippine heritage but I did ok for a dummy too.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: bigrod on April 15, 2018, 01:41:03 PM
Bud.

<  ...   If not, and he has to resort to something else, well, the Philippine Military is getting now some halfway decent wages................
  ....  >

One thing to aware of, at the present time only those with "full" Filipino nationality are permitted to enrol/sign up for the Philippines' military. Dual citizens are NOT permitted to join.
Information from a Philippine Navy recruiter last month.

Similar rules are also in place for most of (elected) government posts.


Peter


Actually the Philippine Army site says you need to be a natural born Filipino.  No mention of dual citizenship.

http://www.army.mil.ph/home/index.php?option=com_sppagebuilder&view=page&id=29 (http://www.army.mil.ph/home/index.php?option=com_sppagebuilder&view=page&id=29)

Like I think some Politicians have renounced their US citizenship, example Sen Poe.  So that would be an option for the military also. This being the Phils clarification would probably be needed at a higher level than a recruiter and his opinion.  My reason for clarification is due to my dealings with the government bureaucracy up to the DOJ, BI and HLURB executive levels.

Chuck
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on April 15, 2018, 01:47:21 PM
Written by a filipino

https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/7h1hb3/why_the_philippines_educational_system_is_awful/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/7h1hb3/why_the_philippines_educational_system_is_awful/)
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Peter on April 15, 2018, 04:28:39 PM
Actually the Philippine Army site says you need to be a natural born Filipino.  No mention of dual citizenship.

[url]http://www.army.mil.ph/home/index.php?option=com_sppagebuilder&view=page&id=29[/url] ([url]http://www.army.mil.ph/home/index.php?option=com_sppagebuilder&view=page&id=29[/url])

Like I think some Politicians have renounced their US citizenship, example Sen Poe.  So that would be an option for the military also. This being the Phils clarification would probably be needed at a higher level than a recruiter and his opinion.  My reason for clarification is due to my dealings with the government bureaucracy up to the DOJ, BI and HLURB executive levels.

Chuck


Chuck,

I agree that the subject of dual nationality would have to be "referred upwards" for a definitive decision, but bearing in mind that most, if not all, of these regulations promulgated on government websites, are directed at Filipinos and do not specifically take into account dual citizens.

Saying that, however, it is something to be thought about, if a dual citizen wanted to join the Philippines' military. Would she/he want to give up an US/UK/whatever dual citizenship? It could be very hard to re-aquire their former citizenship after 20 or 25 years.

Peter
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: bigrod on April 15, 2018, 06:39:42 PM
Chuck,

I agree that the subject of dual nationality would have to be "referred upwards" for a definitive decision, but bearing in mind that most, if not all, of these regulations promulgated on government websites, are directed at Filipinos and do not specifically take into account dual citizens.

Saying that, however, it is something to be thought about, if a dual citizen wanted to join the Philippines' military. Would she/he want to give up an US/UK/whatever dual citizenship? It could be very hard to re-aquire their former citizenship after 20 or 25 years.

Peter

Agree.  Would I give mine up at 70 years old, not likely.  Now a child who has lived their whole life til maturity in the Philippines might have a different view. Especially if they can possibly take over the family business, guaranteed a great lifestyle, etc.  All situations are different and decisions would be bases upon what options are available probably 15 years down the road.

Chuck

Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: FastWalk on April 15, 2018, 11:03:38 PM
Hestercrefter,  my viewpoint is that money is not the goal in life.  Although as a kid I was certainly tought that it was.  As a kid was lower middle class or just few steps obove poor.  I heard endlessly how colledge ppl are just educated idiots and one needs to get a job as soon as possible.

After manageing a few retail stores I joined the Navy and an E1..  The US Navy tought me how to go to university and even paid for it.  When a little older I discovered that a software engineer can earn alot more money in the free market, and moved to private companies.  Have been involved with many technolog that changed the world.  Same earning ability as Medical Dr and Legal work.  The path to all that money however was  full of struggles, sadness and heartbreak.  Money just is not the right goal (albiet it is important to have some).

I have 529 plans already funded for kids to attend US University when ready.  And will encourage and even insist they do so as much as I am able to.  Until then I am looking forward to haveing them in US based home school while residing in the Phillipines where it is normal to keep the kids close.  While they continue to learn music and dance along with being members of athletic clubs.

The end game for the kids is to be happy and hopefully avoid some of the years and years of heartbreak that I experienced in the US School and family systems.  If later they want to just assume our Phillipine buisnesses and build a house on one of our areas in the phillipines after university I will be delighted.  When grandkids arrive,  hopefully I can still be able to help take care of them. If they want to take on a journey in the US either blue or white collar,  I will support it however I can.  I would encourage them to be in US Military if they like,  but would try to get them to start as 0-1 instead of E-1.

I think opinions vary,  this is how I see it.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on April 16, 2018, 02:54:49 AM
Hestercrefter,  my viewpoint is that money is not the goal in life.  Although as a kid I was certainly tought that it was. 

I have 529 plans already funded for kids to attend US University when ready.  And will encourage and even insist they do so as much as I am able to.  Until then I am looking forward to haveing them in US based home school while residing in the Phillipines where it is normal to keep the kids close.  While they continue to learn music and dance along with being members of athletic clubs.

The end game for the kids is to be happy and hopefully avoid some of the years and years of heartbreak that I experienced in the US School and family systems.  If later they want to just assume our Phillipine buisnesses and build a house on one of our areas in the phillipines after university I will be delighted.  When grandkids arrive,  hopefully I can still be able to help take care of them. If they want to take on a journey in the US either blue or white collar,  I will support it however I can.  I would encourage them to be in US Military if they like,  but would try to get them to start as 0-1 instead of E-1.

I think opinions vary,  this is how I see it.

Fastwalk, my initial post was not meant to suggest that money should be the goal in life.  However, I think for most, it is a goal to have sufficient money to live with some comfort.  What different folks will see as amounting to "some comfort" will, of course, vary widely. 

Elsewhere on this board you have commented:


Another point is that the average (or is it mean..) income in the Philippines is about 25k peso,  and the same in the US is about 4-6k dollars per month.  With the exchange rates it works out to the US person having on average about 10 times more.  Other numbers can be found,  but the general theory is still sound.  In either place there are ppl that are above or below the averages.

That comment squares with what I see.  So that is why I asked about expats raising kids in the Phils.  Are they content that their kids' income earning capacity will be so circumscribed?  Have they figured out another way?  I am guessing that most expats have lived a good part of their lives with incomes in the US range you cite.  I would think many would want their kids to have the same.  If the kids are born and raised in the Phils, how is that accomplished?  BudM has put forward US military as one avenue.  I think that is probably a good one.  I note that you have mentioned the same. 

I'll be crass and state my position that, while money should not be the goal in life, it should be a goal.  I have found that those who like to say that money isn't important generally fall into one of two camps: (i) those who have loads of it; or (ii) those who have not been successful in making money and like to say it's not important, so they do not have to admit to failure in that regard. 

In another thread you made the point:

In the US with all of our activities between us we are easily into the 5% or better group for money.  There is (almost) no way at this time in my life that I can or even want to work hard enough to get to the 1% group.  I believe 1% group is where it is possible to have regular domestic help.  We both have had a variety of religious ideas and training and either of us are very capable to be the sole provider for our entire family.  In the Philippines we move up in the food chain due to the exchange rate and other things.  Neither of us like doing domestic work at all.

Ö

 We keep the kids close, both of us like the idea to have a more direct control over the kids growth.  We will likely move back to the US for at least a few years when kids will finish university.  Then depending (on everything) they can have option to carry on whatever we do on the Philippines or build in the US.

A bit of research tells me that, as a member of the top 5% club, your household income is in the range of $215,000/yr., with a net worth in the range of $2 million.  You say that you have the financial clout to be able to return to the US and have your kids attend university there.  Not a cheap undertaking by any yardstick.  You own lands and businesses in the Phils your kids can take over.  Clearly, you do not have to face the prospect that your progeny will never rise above the lot of the average Filipino. 

FastWalk, you mention that your road to riches was full of sadness, struggles and heartbreak.  I find that statement a tad curious, but I'll not ask you to elaborate.  I suspect there are details you'd prefer not to relate.  I say I find the statement curious because it is so foreign to my own experience.  I completed grade 13 in Toronto, then spent 9 years at 3 universities (some on both sides of the border) earning advanced degrees.  The 9 years were not consecutive.  I worked as an accountant to be able to save up law school tuition.  An educated idiot some here will say.  But, as an educated idiot I was able to earn a very good income. Perhaps more importantly, I was to a large extent able to "pack my own chute". 

I never really had a boss.  I was sometimes the boss and, when I was not, I was still a trusted professional, left to do my work as I wanted, when I wanted.  I noticed that the higher up one got in the pecking order, the less one had to do to earn an ever larger pay check.  I always had my own large, private office and support staff assigned to me.  I always felt a bit guilty when it came to support staff.  They were expected to be on the job, at their desks, from 9 to 5, with controlled breaks.  They had very little autonomy.  They were paid a fraction of what I was paid, but, in truth, they worked harder.  A lot harder.  It paid to be a big pecker, rather than a little pecker.

So, FastWalk, while it seems that you endured some difficulty in accomplishing what you have - including a well above average financial status - it also seems that you have achieved financial freedom for yourself and your family, including the ability to secure your childrenís future in a way that will see them independent.  My sense is that, even if they assume your businesses, they will have to work.  I see that as all for the good. 

We are not in the fortunate position of having a business for our son to assume.  As I mentioned, I suppose I could arrange my affairs so that not only will my wife be financially secure after my passing (which is a priority), but my son could get by reasonably well with what I could leave him.  But I do not want that for him.  He seems to be a capable young lad so far and I would rather see him earn his own way.  Sure, later in life he can inherit, but I would hope that by the time that day comes, any inheritance will just be a bit extra added to what he has made for himself.  I think he will feel better about himself as a result.  But maybe thatís looking through an old school lens.  Maybe today, itís a point of pride for one to say that they have set things up so their kids will never have to do a lick of work. 

What I am reading here so far bears out my thinking that expats cannot raise their kids in the Phils, have them do all of their schooling there, and expect them to enjoy the standard of living of their parents, without having some kind of plan in place to allow them to do better than they would if simply left to their own devices competing in the Phils job market. 

What no one has yet addressed is whether kids, who complete university in the Phils, have much opportunity to migrate to the US (or wherever else they have citizenship through an expat parent) and successfully compete with local grads in that job market. 

In our case, my wife and I have decided that our sonís best prospects lie in him completing his education here in Canada (perhaps some university in the U.S.).  Once he is out of high school, thereís a fair likelihood that heíll leave home for university as I did.  His mum and I will likely then again review the idea of us returning to live in the Phils.  At this point, my guess is that we'll end up spending a couple of months each winter there, but not pull the plug here completely.


Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am on April 16, 2018, 06:50:39 AM
In our neighborhood we have seen and heard every facet of life of families mostly Filipinos and some married to foreigners. The parent's occupations ranges vastly accross the board from laywers, doctors, nurses, military, police, teachers, OFWs,  self employed tradesmens, skilled/unskilled laborers, business owners of all sorts, show biz, politicians and most of their efforts always revolves around their children's upbringing, safety and education. Their children are what makes their world go around.
For most of us retirees without any children, except for niecies and nephews that come to visit occassionally are enjoyable to be with occasionally. ;D ???
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: fred on April 16, 2018, 11:47:01 PM
Chuck,

I agree that the subject of dual nationality would have to be "referred upwards" for a definitive decision, but bearing in mind that most, if not all, of these regulations promulgated on government websites, are directed at Filipinos and do not specifically take into account dual citizens.

Saying that, however, it is something to be thought about, if a dual citizen wanted to join the Philippines' military. Would she/he want to give up an US/UK/whatever dual citizenship? It could be very hard to re-aquire their former citizenship after 20 or 25 years.

Peter

If the requirement to join the military is to be a natural born Filipino,then the only important thing is if the applicants Mother OR Father was a natural Filipino!
About the only thing a dual citizen cannot do is run for election to public office.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: David690 on April 17, 2018, 02:05:53 PM

What I am reading here so far bears out my thinking that expats cannot raise their kids in the Phils, have them do all of their schooling there, and expect them to enjoy the standard of living of their parents, without having some kind of plan in place to allow them to do better than they would if simply left to their own devices competing in the Phils job market. 

What no one has yet addressed is whether kids, who complete university in the Phils, have much opportunity to migrate to the US (or wherever else they have citizenship through an expat parent) and successfully compete with local grads in that job market. 


Hi Hestecrefter

First off let me qualify my comment and admit that I have zero first hand experience of the education system here in Philippines, nor the job market in the U.S.  What I can say with 100% certainty based on my own personal experience, is that engineers here are educated to a good level.  Before I retired earlier this year, I was Engineering Manager for Govt of Dubai Media Office.  I had several Philipino engineers that I had recruited directly from here.  Every one of them was well trained, hard working, extremely honest and easy to work with.  I lost a couple of them to other international companies, the last one to CNN, where he is Engineer in Charge of his news unit and travels the world with them.  So yes I do think it's possible for university graduates from the Philippines to find a good well paid job outside of here.  Maybe I've just been extremely lucky, I have no way of judging that.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: FastWalk on April 17, 2018, 11:00:26 PM
I had several Philipino engineers that I had recruited directly from here.  Every one of them was well trained, hard working, extremely honest and easy to work with.  I lost a couple of them to other

Completely agree with you that engineers from Philippines can and do end up with globally competitive earning.  Years ago I had the pleasure to hire a young Filipino man that turned out to be a super star and at that time could not afford to keep him,  in the US dot com boom.  He ended up at Microsoft where he did very very well.  So I also am 100% sure it can be done.  How it works is the person takes a lower salary then the US competitors but it is still a good one.  Then later works there way up,  just like anyone has to do.

Several of the nurse and Dr. that I have seen in the last years are educated and imported from Philippines,  they are for sure competitive in earning.

Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Gray Wolf on April 18, 2018, 11:50:21 PM
We have 6 nieces and nephews whose education was paid for wholly or in part by Glo and me who all work as OFW's. 4 Electronics Engineers, 1 RN work in Dubai. The other nephew, with a Masters in Computer Technology, teaches at Arba Minch University in Ethiopia. They all make good money. In fact they make enough to invest in property, homes and businesses back home in the PH. I doubt whether the same degree of opportunity for a good paying job is as easily attained in country. This is why I love my family. They work hard for a living, take care of family and will appreciate even more what they have in a few years.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on April 19, 2018, 12:33:07 AM
So, the impression I am getting from responses provided is that kids educated in the Phils can readily go just about anywhere in the world, their credentials are accepted as equal (and perhaps superior) to the local grads, and they can earn on a par with kids educated in the U.S. and other western countries.  I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc. 

The responses also appear to confirm my belief that grads from the PI have a difficult time earning in the range of $5,000 a month or better in the Phils, so they leave.  That remains one reason why I would rather have our son educated in Canada.  Were we to live in the Phils, for him to eventually enjoy the kind of earnings his old man enjoyed all his life, he would have to leave what would be his home country.  That's not a concept that endears itself to me.  When I was completing school in Canada, I did not have to concern myself with the somewhat stark reality of knowing I would have to leave home and perhaps never return except to visit or retire. 

It's reassuring to learn that, despite some "one-offs", the quality of education in the Phils is not inferior to that of western countries. Upthread, I referred to a kid who went through elementary school and who graduated when plainly he had not obtained a thorough elementary education.  That was nigh on 20 years ago and it's probably the case that such a thing could not occur anywhere in the Phils today, and that more rigorous standards are universally applied. 
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 19, 2018, 07:47:48 AM
So, the impression I am getting from responses provided is that kids educated in the Phils can readily go just about anywhere in the world, their credentials are accepted as equal (and perhaps superior) to the local grads, and they can earn on a par with kids educated in the U.S. and other western countries.  I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc. 

                < ------- removed some ------->

I don't know about Dubai which depends on what ranking you look at as UAE is either richer than the US or vice versa.  On the other hand, over the years all the lists I have seen, Qatar (UAE neighbor) is consistently on lists as a lot richer than the US.  And I have no less than ten relatives (a brother of my wife, a brother-in-law of hers and the rest 1st cousins) and maybe some I haven't even met yet, who work in Doha, Qatar as OFW.  I never inquired as to their incomes and I don't think they necessarily get the top rate that nationals would of which the nationals population is a way lower percentage than working expats.  Believe me though, the income they do get, puts them in the same light with some family, friends, and others, just like we from western civilizations are and that being is perceived as having more money than we or anyone knows how to or able to spend.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Lee2 on April 19, 2018, 09:56:03 AM
Let me start off writing, that IMO you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear, at least not without continual under thumb guidance, at least that is what I have found in some of our family and friends, so the crab mentality will sometimes, maybe even often, pull those you send to college down if they come from poor and uneducated families, whereas, those that come from educated families will more likely succeed, there will always be exceptions for those who are strong enough to not allow anyone to pull them down. We sent 6 to college and only one graduated and even he could not pass the exam to become licensed, even after us paying for his summer school every year and a pretest course, of course we were not there to make sure he actually went to all those classes, my guess is we spent that money for those classes and he could not have possibly attended them all and still failed but maybe he is just plain thick or another possibility is that he found a way to get receipts for those classes without taking them.

As for salaries, those who get recruited from the Philippines make peanuts when compared to those who have citizenship from first world countries and can go on their own, again, from what I have personally seen, YMMV.

So in conclusion, I do not believe it is as much the education in the Philippines that is bad as the crab mentality of some friends and family, that pull others down. As an example, we had one exceptionally smart young niece that started teaching me Bisaya at the family home when she was around 11, she was great, she made learning so easy for me, we later found out that her family and friends made fun of her because I foolishly said in front of others that she had a special talent to be a teacher and that we would send her to college, she never finished high school because the others continually made fun of her, she would have been a great teacher and could have made a better life for her and her family.


Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on April 19, 2018, 10:46:48 AM
So, the impression I am getting from responses provided is that kids educated in the Phils can readily go just about anywhere in the world, their credentials are accepted as equal (and perhaps superior) to the local grads, and they can earn on a par with kids educated in the U.S. and other western countries.  I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc. 

The responses also appear to confirm my belief that grads from the PI have a difficult time earning in the range of $5,000 a month or better in the Phils, so they leave.  That remains one reason why I would rather have our son educated in Canada.  Were we to live in the Phils, for him to eventually enjoy the kind of earnings his old man enjoyed all his life, he would have to leave what would be his home country.  That's not a concept that endears itself to me.  When I was completing school in Canada, I did not have to concern myself with the somewhat stark reality of knowing I would have to leave home and perhaps never return except to visit or retire. 

It's reassuring to learn that, despite some "one-offs", the quality of education in the Phils is not inferior to that of western countries. Upthread, I referred to a kid who went through elementary school and who graduated when plainly he had not obtained a thorough elementary education.  That was nigh on 20 years ago and it's probably the case that such a thing could not occur anywhere in the Phils today, and that more rigorous standards are universally applied.
In general the quality of education here IS ABSOLUTELY inferior to most, if not all, 'western' countries.   That does not mean that there are not any good schools, nor does it mean that "some" kids do get a quality education.   I had many Filipinos working for me during my time in the AF and they were all well spoken, intelligent and hard working, when I was going thru cancer treatment, most of my nurses were filipina (3 different hospitals, in three different states), and they were all awesome.   But the vast majority of kids in the Philippines are not getting a quality education, and that is putting it mildly, and that includes many of the private schools.    I have had high school grads ask me "where is Indonesia", "can we land on the sun", or "we have landed on the moon?", these are only a handful of questions I have been asked by high school grads.   In addition, I do have first hand knowledge of provincial public schools and non provincial private schools, and I can tell you, unequivocally, the education system is severely lacking.    Pointing out exceptions does not mean the education system here is on par with other countries.   This is not just an opinion, these are documented facts.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 19, 2018, 03:26:54 PM
What it boils down to is, wherever you go, there are a bunch of kids who do not know squat about history, math, science or you name it.  The Philippines has their share of kids of who don't care about learning.  The US has their share of kids who don't care about learning.  Any other country has their share also.  This BS about so and so being inferior education to another is just that.  A bunch of BS.  So, the best thing is, whoever wants to send their kids to that country's school or the other country's schools, it is the parents choice.  All I have to say is, my feelings on where my kid is not going has mainly to do with the mentality of a great many of the teachers of whom in my opinion try to influence the kids to their way of thinking.  And I am not going to have certain kind of individuals dominating my kid's list of teachers.  Why?  Because I don't have any use for that type.  So, in conclusion, my kid is going to school here.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on April 19, 2018, 06:37:27 PM
What it boils down to is, wherever you go, there are a bunch of kids who do not know squat about history, math, science or you name it.  The Philippines has their share of kids of who don't care about learning.  The US has their share of kids who don't care about learning.  Any other country has their share also.  This BS about so and so being inferior education to another is just that.  A bunch of BS.  So, the best thing is, whoever wants to send their kids to that country's school or the other country's schools, it is the parents choice.  All I have to say is, my feelings on where my kid is not going has mainly to do with the mentality of a great many of the teachers of whom in my opinion try to influence the kids to their way of thinking.  And I am not going to have certain kind of individuals dominating my kid's list of teachers.  Why?  Because I don't have any use for that type.  So, in conclusion, my kid is going to school here.
One MAJOR factor we have all overlooked and one that is probably more important than the education system, is Parenting!
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 19, 2018, 09:09:13 PM
One MAJOR factor we have all overlooked and one that is probably more important than the education system, is Parenting!

I don't think anyone is overlooking that.  But, in some places, a negative system influences has a greater negative effect then others and with the same parenting.  With careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion and weighed as to where the most negativeness stews and could have the most negative effect, all in my opinion, and my kid is not going there.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: JoeLP on April 19, 2018, 09:57:24 PM
Education here and now, at east in Northern Samar, is far below what education was for me, 30+ years ago in rural west Michigan at a school that was not thought well of.  But, like when I was at that school, at lot depends on the student and the student's parents.  A neighbor across the street has a family member who grew up in Catarman, went to school in Catarman, but as quick minded and had good knowledge.  Because of that, he became a part of one of the top engineer firms in Manila for a few years before getting a job offer in Japan, then New Zeeland, then to a bigger job in New Zeeland that took him to Qatar then back to New Zeeland. 
When he was in Japan, he was one of the lead engineers in the creation of the LRT2 in Manila. 
I've talked to this man.  He's a good and bright engineer.  But, if you started talking about books and literature...forget it.  Get into history and such and you see he lacks. He'll go quiet or switch topics. 
So yes, there is a lot lacking in general education concerning K-12 level schooling.  But, if you want to and work to rise to the top and take advantage of opportunities, you can become successful. 
But, Hestecrefter, there is not equal status on what is earned in more cases than not.  In the USA, a doctor in the Phils will not be given same status. The Dr. that I use here in Catarman left to the USA not long after college was complete.  Spent nearly 30 years in Tampa Bay, Florida at the hospital rising to being he top nurse(Managing Nurse) in the hospital and was in charge of all the nurses in the entire hospital.  But, unless he took classes and passed tests/exams...that was all the hire he could go...and he was happy with that.  Meanwhile Tina's high school friend did the same thing, but took night classes while doing nursing and got his PA license.  Then while a PA did more schooling to earn his MD.  And the hospital paid for all his schooling.  He never racked up any debt in the whole process and is now a doctor at a hospital in Maryland. 
I think there is usually something along those lines concerning teaching.  But I do know that for a few years when Washington DC couldn't find teachers wanting to teach there, they were grabbing teachers from the Philippines to teach at the inner city.  I think they were just brought straight in.  So even then there are exceptions.
My oldest son here in Catarman is really doing good in school now.  Had struggles earlier, but now he's come around and is 2nd in his class.  He was 24th just 2 years ago.  So he's putting in the time and wants to go to school for Computer engineering.  If he keeps his head on straight and focuses correctly...he will have the same opportunities to get out of the Phils and work his way up.  I think that is good for him.  But, he needs to "keep his nose to the grindstone" to make it happen.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Peter on April 21, 2018, 04:03:26 PM
Hestecrefter

< I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc.    >

Having first hand knowledge of the hiring system/procedures of foreign workers in the GCC, it is not the level of renumeration that most OFWs go there for (although well qualified and experienced professionals are very well paid, the less skilled obviously paid less, but all are well paid when set against what they earn in their home country) but the relative ease of being hired, getting a working visa and arriving in the country to start earning.

The UAE (Dubai being one of the Emirates) and other GCC States have a very efficient and quick visa processing system. If a Government agency or private company have a specific requirement for, say 50 carpenters or 5 specialist professionals or a medical IT tech, most can get their future employees a visa within 2 working weeks and an OFW can be there in 3 after signing the initial contract in the Philippines.

Put that up against the hoops that a potential employer in the UK/USA/Australia/wherever has to jump through to get a foreigner a working visa to their country.

Most OFWs need to start earning as soon as possible and not have to wait for an undetermined length of time to be deployed. So waiting for a (Western) megabucks job, comes down to taking what I can get now.

"Bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush", comes to mind.

IMHO of course, tempered by 30 odd years of GCC experience.  8)  8)  8)

Peter
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: David690 on April 21, 2018, 07:21:02 PM
Hestecrefter

< I am guessing wages in Dubai and those places are as good or better than in the U.S., hence OFWs prefer to take jobs there and not in the U.S., Canada, Australia,  etc.    >

Having first hand knowledge of the hiring system/procedures of foreign workers in the GCC, it is not the level of renumeration that most OFWs go there for (although well qualified and experienced professionals are very well paid, the less skilled obviously paid less, but all are well paid when set against what they earn in their home country) but the relative ease of being hired, getting a working visa and arriving in the country to start earning.

Having lived and worked in Dubai for 36 years, I would say your assessment is spot on Peter.
The UAE (Dubai being one of the Emirates) and other GCC States have a very efficient and quick visa processing system. If a Government agency or private company have a specific requirement for, say 50 carpenters or 5 specialist professionals or a medical IT tech, most can get their future employees a visa within 2 working weeks and an OFW can be there in 3 after signing the initial contract in the Philippines.

Put that up against the hoops that a potential employer in the UK/USA/Australia/wherever has to jump through to get a foreigner a working visa to their country.

Most OFWs need to start earning as soon as possible and not have to wait for an undetermined length of time to be deployed. So waiting for a (Western) megabucks job, comes down to taking what I can get now.

"Bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush", comes to mind.

IMHO of course, tempered by 30 odd years of GCC experience.  8)  8)  8)

Peter
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on April 22, 2018, 12:09:31 PM
Yes there are some good schools in the Philippines where you can get a quality education:
https://www.townandcountry.ph/people/heritage/how-much-it-costs-to-study-at-some-of-manila-s-top-high-schools-a1600-20170713-lfrm5 (https://www.townandcountry.ph/people/heritage/how-much-it-costs-to-study-at-some-of-manila-s-top-high-schools-a1600-20170713-lfrm5)

Most of my neighbors went to schools such as these listed

So yes, many of the examples pointed out by many members citing "highly educated Filipinos" is absolutely a correct statement.  These schools pump out hundreds, maybe even a few thousand, annually.     Total population of the Philippines is over 106 million.   
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 22, 2018, 02:24:15 PM
Yes there are some good schools in the Philippines where you can get a quality education:
https://www.townandcountry.ph/people/heritage/how-much-it-costs-to-study-at-some-of-manila-s-top-high-schools-a1600-20170713-lfrm5 (https://www.townandcountry.ph/people/heritage/how-much-it-costs-to-study-at-some-of-manila-s-top-high-schools-a1600-20170713-lfrm5)

Most of my neighbors went to schools such as these listed

So yes, many of the examples pointed out by many members citing "highly educated Filipinos" is absolutely a correct statement.  These schools pump out hundreds, maybe even a few thousand, annually.     Total population of the Philippines is over 106 million.

What is your point in harping on this never ending subject JJ?  Are you saying, unless we are rich, there is little chance our kids will get a quality education?  We have to be rich like your neighbors?  Fact is, some of those schools are not too bad near the 100k mark.  The ones around the 1/2 million mark could take a flying leap.  By time my kid gets to high school, there should be more quality (by your standards apparently) schools.  Crap, we might have moved to another country by then.  Who knows.  No JJ.  Not the US.  I want more chance of a quality education for him.  Not saying there is no place there that it could not happen but I want more of a chance.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: JoeLP on April 22, 2018, 05:47:50 PM
Yes there are some good schools in the Philippines where you can get a quality education:
https://www.townandcountry.ph/people/heritage/how-much-it-costs-to-study-at-some-of-manila-s-top-high-schools-a1600-20170713-lfrm5 (https://www.townandcountry.ph/people/heritage/how-much-it-costs-to-study-at-some-of-manila-s-top-high-schools-a1600-20170713-lfrm5)

Most of my neighbors went to schools such as these listed

So yes, many of the examples pointed out by many members citing "highly educated Filipinos" is absolutely a correct statement.  These schools pump out hundreds, maybe even a few thousand, annually.     Total population of the Philippines is over 106 million.

A better school does not always equal a better student.  Always exceptions.  Attending 4 different schools between K-12 I can tell you first hand that the brightest in 2 of the school I went to(where they received poor reviews repeatedly) were brighter than a good chuck of students in the other 2 schools I attended, one of which has received multiple national rewards.
The neighbor I mentioned went to Catarman High School.  The local public school.  Then went to UEP, where Tina's cousin went and was taking math classes his first year that I took in high school over 25 years ago.  But, the neighbor got what he needed.  He studied above and beyond the engineering lessons at school and what got him into the top level engineering firm was his high test scores.  That's all he needed to get where he is now working overseas making good money.
Having the opportunity to go to multiple schools, what I experiences was the kids who attended the better schools(usually in areas with better income levels) were kids who acted entitled.  As if the fact they went to their school, with higher rankings and awards, that they just needed to go there and that alone made them better students than neighboring schools.  That was no accurate across the board, but it was a predominant attitude that they exuded.
I went to Fremont High school in Michigan and Hesperia high school.  Arguably a top level and bottom level schools setup.  One that, when I went there, was ranked a top 5 school in the state, and the other, that as of when I last looked which was around 2004, never passed the governor's testing regulations.  But, I learned at both.  Had to go up a grade or so to take some classes in Hesperia, but, they had the education, if  I wanted it and was willing to work for it.  Same is true here in the Philippines if kids want to go overseas.  Are the parents going to do their job and prepare their kids to do what is needed to be done.  That is the real question.
The reason I'm moving to the USA for LJ's eduation is honestly for the areas that are taught there that just are not taught in the Phils.  The history, science, and so on.  Stuff that I know Tina, and her 3 siblings, each teachers, do not know but I was taught in high school or before.  You know, the stuff that when we are taking them we ask when we'll ever need to know that when we are adults.  Like advanced geometry and algebra and world, American, and Michigan history.  Or stuff like reading shakespear.  I want to force my son to learn that "worthless stuff" that is suppose to somehow help us in every day life as grown ups.  ;D
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: BudM on April 22, 2018, 09:38:37 PM
Yeah, I know of a few of those "entitled" kids you are talking about.  According to everyone, who thinks they have a say in anything, those kids are so poor it is ridiculous.  Yet, they attend private elementary and high schools and act like they are privileged characters just as their parents believe about themselves.  My kid better think twice about his rear end getting booted if he starts thinking like them.  So, I have to be careful in picking a school for him if it turns out to be a private one and if it is a public, then it sure will not be near where I am now.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on April 23, 2018, 06:52:00 AM
A better school does not always equal a better student.  Always exceptions. 
Of course
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: MotorSarge on November 05, 2019, 06:24:42 AM
I had the questions about education in PI also..but my feelings have changed after reading some replies in the forums here and living in a half a dozen other countries myself.
It's not all about the school, the money, the country, the family or even the individual kid.
Just look at Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin scandals, rich ol stars thinking they bought their kidos a glorious education....but in my mind poor ol kids!

It is a package deal that starts with the parents at home...not just the village!
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hank on November 05, 2019, 10:28:44 AM

It's not all about the school, the money, the country, the family or even the individual kid.

It is a package deal that starts with the parents at home...not just the village!


As a school, college and university educator all my life .. this is one of the wisest things I have ever read.


Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on November 05, 2019, 03:31:42 PM
I had the questions about education in PI also..but my feelings have changed after reading some replies in the forums here and living in a half a dozen other countries myself.
It's not all about the school, the money, the country, the family or even the individual kid.
Just look at Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin scandals, rich ol stars thinking they bought their kidos a glorious education....but in my mind poor ol kids!

It is a package deal that starts with the parents at home...not just the village!
Well of course, but good parenting AND a solid education are mutually inclusive.  It takes both, and I can tell you first hand the education system here is absolutely horrible.  There may be no more than a handful of schools in the entire country that offer an education comparable to Europe or the USA, but that is it.    My nieces attend a private school and I told the principal that the school was much too easy and they are doing the students a disservice.  One example, students can miserably fail the final exam, and still make the honor roll; boggles my mind.    I was told class participation is a HUGE part of the grade e.g., answering questions in class, "even if they get the answers wrong" they are awarded the same credit as a student that answers correctly.  I have had high school graduates ask me if man has landed on the Sun.   Most dont know where Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia etc.. are.  Unless the Philippines drastically improves its education system it will always be a 3rd class 3rd world country.  And I am starting to believe those that graduate from La Salle, The Philippines Military Academy etc., want it to remain exactly as it is. 
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: MotorSarge on November 06, 2019, 02:34:01 AM
Well jjcabgou,

I'm sorry to hear that because it is sad news.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 06, 2019, 06:54:20 AM
Unless the Philippines drastically improves its education system it will always be a 3rd class 3rd world country.


It's a world wide phenomena in our opinion.

Our daughter was adopted at a very young age.  Computers, (specifically the original Mac), became the tool that we bonded through.  And I kept that box full of skill level appropriate games and tutors.  She was fluently reading by the age of three.  That was her start.

We put her in public school in a solidly middle class rural county deep in the Midwest.  Within weeks we were conflicting with the school board on substance, philosophy, and methodology.

It did not take long to figure out that organized education as it is implemented today is indoctrination.  Focused on teaching the young how to act, more than how to think.   We experienced this in multiple regions/countries. 

I know this is going to chap some bottoms here  .....  but George Carlin said it best (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ).  Here is another good reference (https://b-ok.cc/book/539653/15becb). 

Or you can do your own research.  Take an 8th grade test from 1931 (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/history/take-this-1931-8th-grade-gradu.html).  See how you do.

If this was being done in the buckle of the American Bible belt,  you can rest assured that it is everywhere.

Our solution was a tough schedule of "supplementary" education.  Home schooling in addition to.  Economics, History, Classical Philosophy/Literature.  Application of Math/Sciences,  Martial sciences.


After over a hundred years of the media influencers using their bully pulpit .......  everyone absolutely believes that the only way to knowledge/success is through an accredited "academic" facility.   Even though the vast bulk of historical human learning has taken place under the "apprenticeship" system.

Fighting this is unproductive.  So we figure that the degree/diploma is only useful as a "business card".  It can get your child's foot in the door of an interview/opportunity.  In this day and age you have to have that "letter of reference".

But remember,  the real, useful,  education happened outside of the "hallowed halls" of learning.


Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: MotorSarge on November 06, 2019, 10:20:16 PM
I totally agree with you 100%!
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on November 07, 2019, 06:15:55 PM
It's a world wide phenomena in our opinion.

Our daughter was adopted at a very young age.  Computers, (specifically the original Mac), became the tool that we bonded through.  And I kept that box full of skill level appropriate games and tutors.  She was fluently reading by the age of three.  That was her start.

We put her in public school in a solidly middle class rural county deep in the Midwest.  Within weeks we were conflicting with the school board on substance, philosophy, and methodology.

It did not take long to figure out that organized education as it is implemented today is indoctrination.  Focused on teaching the young how to act, more than how to think.   We experienced this in multiple regions/countries. 

I know this is going to chap some bottoms here  .....  but George Carlin said it best ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ[/url]).  Here is another good reference ([url]https://b-ok.cc/book/539653/15becb[/url]). 

Or you can do your own research.  Take an 8th grade test from 1931 ([url]http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/history/take-this-1931-8th-grade-gradu.html[/url]).  See how you do.

If this was being done in the buckle of the American Bible belt,  you can rest assured that it is everywhere.

Our solution was a tough schedule of "supplementary" education.  Home schooling in addition to.  Economics, History, Classical Philosophy/Literature.  Application of Math/Sciences,  Martial sciences.


After over a hundred years of the media influencers using their bully pulpit .......  everyone absolutely believes that the only way to knowledge/success is through an accredited "academic" facility.   Even though the vast bulk of historical human learning has taken place under the "apprenticeship" system.

Fighting this is unproductive.  So we figure that the degree/diploma is only useful as a "business card".  It can get your child's foot in the door of an interview/opportunity.  In this day and age you have to have that "letter of reference".

But remember,  the real, useful,  education happened outside of the "hallowed halls" of learning.

My son, now 26 years old, got a great education in the USA...
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 07, 2019, 08:27:30 PM
My son, now 26 years old, got a great education in the USA...

I'm happy for you both.  Really am.  Not being sarcastic  JJ.  If you and him are satisfied,  great.

My Daughter,  now 25, got a mediocre education from public school.  A slightly less bad one from private in Samoa.  And a better one from private here in the Province and eventually Ateneo de Manila.

What we did is not for everyone.  It was, and still is,  lots of hard work and discipline.

Read  Iserbyt's book.   After that if your still interested we can talk.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: MotorSarge on November 07, 2019, 11:55:16 PM
I'm familiar with and will give it a read.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: jjcabgou on November 08, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
I'm happy for you both.  Really am.  Not being sarcastic  JJ.  If you and him are satisfied,  great.

My Daughter,  now 25, got a mediocre education from public school.  A slightly less bad one from private in Samoa.  And a better one from private here in the Province and eventually Ateneo de Manila.

What we did is not for everyone.  It was, and still is,  lots of hard work and discipline.

Read  Iserbyt's book.   After that if your still interested we can talk.
Just to note, I never disagreed that a good solid education starts at the home.   I always thought that was a given, and stating that, or reiterating, was just stating the obvious.   There are always exceptions, however, I still stand very firm saying, the quality of education here in the Philippines is far far far below the USA.   Its an apples or oranges comparison
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 08, 2019, 12:49:55 PM
the quality of education here in the Philippines is far far far below the USA.

Intindi.  I think we are talking about two different, but related, issues. 

You are measuring the RP to the US.  I am measuring the quality of education over all, specifically after it was "industrialized" at the turn of the 20th century, to before it was.

An accurate representation is that you are comparing two boats to see which one is riding lower.  I am saying that all the boats are sinking.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on November 11, 2019, 07:02:26 AM
It's a world wide phenomena in our opinion.


I can't resist noting that by the time our kid was in grade 5 he knew that "phenomena" is the plural of "phenomenon" and he would not have made the error reflected in that sentence.


Or you can do your own research.  Take an 8th grade test from 1931 ([url]http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/history/take-this-1931-8th-grade-gradu.html[/url]).  See how you do.


I have tried that link, from my home in Canada when you first posted it, then from my home in Los Angeles a few days ago and now here in Cebu.  So, with 3 different ISPs, always the same result.  A blank page with the number 4009 in the upper left corner is all that appears for me.  Anyone here having better luck?
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: MotorSarge on November 11, 2019, 07:57:47 AM
I still can not spell one without the other.....besides knowing the difference.
I'll be in PI for most of DEC/JAN and still willing to buy you that RC as my kid calls it if your available.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on November 11, 2019, 08:47:03 AM
I would be up for that MS, for sure.

I am in the phils to Dec. 10.  Maybe send me a pm as to when and where you will be and let's see if our paths might cross.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 11, 2019, 10:50:09 AM
I can't resist noting that by the time our kid was in grade 5 he knew that "phenomena" is the plural of "phenomenon" and he would not have made the error reflected in that sentence.

I have tried that link, from my home in Canada when you first posted it, then from my home in Los Angeles a few days ago and now here in Cebu.  So, with 3 different ISPs, always the same result.  A blank page with the number 4009 in the upper left corner is all that appears for me.  Anyone here having better luck?

Uhmmm ok.  What do you wish to accomplish with those responses?
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on November 11, 2019, 01:38:51 PM
Uhmmm ok.  What do you wish to accomplish with those responses?

A working link or the url for the grade 8 test would be nice.  You provided 2 links to other material in that post, the link to the gr. 8 test went nowhere.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
A working link or the url for the grade 8 test would be nice.  You provided 2 links to other material in that post, the link to the gr. 8 test went nowhere.


The link works for me.

Or you can do your own research.  Take an 8th grade test from 1931 ([url]http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/history/take-this-1931-8th-grade-gradu.html[/url]).  See how you do.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/history/take-this-1931-8th-grade-gradu.html (https://lmgtfy.com/?q=1931+8th+grade&s=g&t=w)
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on November 12, 2019, 08:37:34 AM
Perhaps something about my MacBook Pro the site does not like.  I keep getting the blank page.  I did manage to look at it by using Google to search for it.  Even then, one site showed separate urls for the test and the answer sheet.  I can call up the test.  No luck with the answer sheet.  I won't spend too much time now trying.  I have other things to do here in the Phils at present.

But the test does not seem all that challenging, apart from things that require knowledge specific to West Virginia in that time.  Very similar to the kind of tests we faced as kids in Toronto long ago. 
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 12, 2019, 12:30:05 PM
MacBook Pro

Sounds like the problem to me.  But I am biased.  I threw Apple overboard when the Woz left.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on November 12, 2019, 02:42:22 PM
I am biased the other way.  I have found Apple equipment to be the most durable, reliable and user-friendly.  I have had both desktops and laptops and have used both for 10 years or so.  I simply buy new after a decade of service to upgrade.  Never had a hardware failure of any sort.  Never had software issues.  They are stalwart performers for me and I need that.  I use them a lot and I depend on them to earn my living.  I have carried the laptops all over the planet and they have seen lots of rough and tumble and keep going.  I have never seen or heard of a dead Apple computer. 

It took me years to switch.  I resisted Apple for years.  I went through countless machines by Toshiba, IBM, IBM clones, Compaq, HP, Epson, Dell, Acer, to name just a few.  In each case, the hardware eventually failed. They all died.  None ever came close to 10 years of service, running all day every day.  But others may have had different experience.  I can relate only my own, limited, experience.

BUT, because Apple is not used by most, yes, the odd time, like the present instance with the grade 8 test seems to be, there arises a compatibility issue.  It can always be worked around if required.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 12, 2019, 04:37:44 PM
I am biased the other way.  I have found Apple equipment to be the most durable, reliable and user-friendly.  I have had both desktops and laptops and have used both for 10 years or so.  I simply buy new after a decade of service to upgrade.  Never had a hardware failure of any sort.  Never had software issues.  They are stalwart performers for me and I need that.  I use them a lot and I depend on them to earn my living.  I have carried the laptops all over the planet and they have seen lots of rough and tumble and keep going.  I have never seen or heard of a dead Apple computer. 

It took me years to switch.  I resisted Apple for years.  I went through countless machines by Toshiba, IBM, IBM clones, Compaq, HP, Epson, Dell, Acer, to name just a few.  In each case, the hardware eventually failed. They all died.  None ever came close to 10 years of service, running all day every day.  But others may have had different experience.  I can relate only my own, limited, experience.

BUT, because Apple is not used by most, yes, the odd time, like the present instance with the grade 8 test seems to be, there arises a compatibility issue.  It can always be worked around if required.

{hijack}

I put in a whole lot of Macintosh / Novel networks all throughout the midwest.  Good days.

Then Apple locked down the OS, Bios, and hdw.  Made it real hard to make a living reselling their products without tithing to corporate annually in the form of mandatory training, license, and just because we can fees.

I am typing to you from an 2000 era Stinkpad.  I bought it coming off lease in 2002.  So that would be 17 years old. Still runs very snappy.  It's nice to be able to strip out all of the unnecessary bs and compile your own kernel.

Hell ....  I got a 386 laptop running slackware that manages my solar system.  Keep it around because it has serial ports.

I tend to avoid any company or agency when they start thinking, and acting, like they know what's best for me.

And Apple does do that.

{/hijack}



Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: Hestecrefter on November 13, 2019, 07:27:43 AM
Well lost, I hear you.  I guess it comes down to we all eventually settle on something that suits us best.  It would appear you have found that.  It also would appear that you have some tech savvy and enjoy working with these things. 

For me, I just want to buy something out of the box that works for me.  I don't much care what makes the thing tick.  If Apple thinks for me, when it comes to computers, I reckon that's what I am paying for.  I am happy to let them think for me wrt the tech stuff.  I am an attorney, not an IT specialist.  If I sit at my computer and focus (which means not getting sidetracked by checking in on this forum) I can easily make a hundred bucks an hour for however many hours I care to put in in a day.  I suppose I could take time to learn and understand IT better, but, in my view, it is better for me to spend my time doing what I know how to do, to earn money to pay someone else to do for me the things I am less able to do; things they do all the time and at which they are skilled.

You mention the old 386 running your solar system.  Our wind and solar system is run by Outback equipment I paid someone to select and install.  Needs no attention really, not for the 12 years it has been in service.  The only item that needs attention is the battery bank.  We have 8 Rolls Surrette batteries for which we paid about $1,000 apiece and they cannot be ignored for long.  In our cool climate, they will last at least 20 years if maintained.  So that small job I attend to myself.  When those finally expire, might replace them with a Tesla Power Wall.  Looks like finally something superior to lead acid.

I will admit there are some things I like to do for myself that do not really make much economic sense.  A few days before making my present trip to the Phils, I wanted fresh salmon for dinner.  I can buy a salmon in town for $25 or so.  A salmon someone who fishes for a living caught.  Someone who probably knows more about salmon than I will ever know or want to bother to learn.  So, I walked down to our dock, got in our boat and went fishing.  It took me about 3 hours to come home with one small (6-pound) salmon and one 18-pound ling cod (I caught the cod first, so I kept fishing until I got my salmon).  So I used up what could have been 3 hours of chargeable time and a couple of gallons of gas.  Hardly an economic venture.  But I enjoyed every minute on the water.  You probably derive similar pleasure from building your own computer from the ground up. 

Anyway, I suppose one should get back to the topic of education, but this little diversion has been of interest.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: MotorSarge on November 13, 2019, 08:52:46 AM
It's good to get off topic.....that is life and how we grow and learn. Stay on one topic, you'll get bored or rich, stay sediment & die or just never progress?
Anyways we hit PI Dec five and Moma is running the show for a few days......if I get her permission we shall meet before you depart...hosting on me/us...in Nueva Ecija....don't know and not asking your province...message when we get there. 
Then again I'm not intellectual....just well schooled in hands on of breaking and fixing mechanical Tae.
From Christmas till New Years is my allotted time from Moma...which I am more than sure to spend a most of it in Baguio and Baler.

Chris
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 14, 2019, 07:32:23 AM
Well lost, I hear you.

I am gonna jump this conversation thread to over here.  Not hijack this topic more than I already have.

Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: User444 on November 14, 2019, 11:04:16 AM
Perhaps something about my MacBook Pro the site does not like.  I keep getting the blank page.  I did manage to look at it by using Google to search for it.  Even then, one site showed separate urls for the test and the answer sheet.  I can call up the test.  No luck with the answer sheet.  I won't spend too much time now trying.  I have other things to do here in the Phils at present.

But the test does not seem all that challenging, apart from things that require knowledge specific to West Virginia in that time.  Very similar to the kind of tests we faced as kids in Toronto long ago.
I am in Manila and use Windows 7 with Chrome. I can't get that link to work either.
Title: Re: Education in the Philippines (revisited)
Post by: lost_in_samoa on November 14, 2019, 12:14:46 PM
I can't get that link to work either.

Uhmmm.  That link still works for me.

The point of the link was to illustrate the degradation in education over time. 

Supply initiative.  Look around and find another test from the turn of the century.