Living In The Philippines Forum

Welcome to the Forum! => Announcements and Information => Topic started by: bigrod on March 13, 2020, 06:36:53 AM

Title: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 13, 2020, 06:36:53 AM
FYI:  https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2020/03/12/2000209/travel-and-manila-suspended-march-15-code-red-sublevel-2-raised-over-covid-19 (https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2020/03/12/2000209/travel-and-manila-suspended-march-15-code-red-sublevel-2-raised-over-covid-19)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on March 13, 2020, 09:54:41 AM
Stack yer Bigas/Arroz & Water/Tubig now!
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 13, 2020, 10:22:55 AM
Stack yer Bigas/Arroz & Water/Tubig now!

According to the plan food stuff and supplies will still be shipped into and out of Manila.  Transport systems have not been shut down.  Provincial workers will still be allowed to enter/exit Manila to go to their jobs.

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Gray Wolf on March 13, 2020, 08:40:34 PM
Talked with family last night and this morning. All schools are closed and students are in the process of either returning to their home province or remaining at home with family until schools reopen
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Bob Johnson on March 13, 2020, 11:01:52 PM
My travel date June 16. Hope this blows over by then. Local church group booked with China transfer, airline canceled their flight and refunded money. China to Manila leg, airline said it wasn't their fault, correctly so, and won't refund fares, but that was not a huge cost. Just sent out around 20 balikbayan boxes; local Asian store was filling semi with boxes, $49 to Manila. (From Springfield, MO).
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on March 14, 2020, 02:47:51 AM
A lot of shutdowns happening here in the land of the big PX, I think the Trumpster is going to declare a National Emergency here in just a few minutes.
You all take care over there, wash yer hands often and isolate to the best of your ability.

/r/
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on March 14, 2020, 03:22:09 AM
“Whether authorities have the capability to screen millions daily during the period remains to be seen.”
I don’t see how they’re going to do this. Every commuter going into the city will have to show an ID showing they work in the city? It would take 4 hours just to stand in line!

“An expanded travel ban will similarly bar the entry of foreigners through land, air or sea. Only Filipino citizens and holders of permanent resident visas and Philippine diplomatic visas will be allowed entry.”
This negates the words lockdown and quarantine. There just has to be 1 weak link for the virus to spread. Filipinos traveling can’t be carrying the virus? I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in that meeting to see how these rules were agreed to and if there were any logistical concerns before they were approved.

Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on March 14, 2020, 03:13:00 PM
On Wednesday, a lady from Manila, who travelled on March 5 to Orani, Bataan on a Genesis bus, was taken to the Government hospital in Balanga after feeling unwell. She tested positive for the covid-19 virus on Friday. Yesterday (Friday) medical checkpoints were set up on all highways into the Bataan.

There is one on the Jose Santos Highway near our house. All occupants of all vehicles (private, PUV, trikes, buses, trucks, single motors) as well as carabou riders and those on foot, are being temperature tested.

Looking out from our terrace, I can see 4 lines of traffic on the 2 lane, each way, highway into the Bataan (patience is not a virtue here LOL!) backed up over the "boundary" 300 metres away, to Pampanga,

Occupants of vehicles leaving the Bataan (on the only lane that's free) are also being checked.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 14, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
FYI: https://ph.news.yahoo.com/philippines-records-one-coronavirus-death-033637351.html?hl=1&noRedirect=1
 
https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1241807/curfew-hours-for-metro-manila-lockdown-malls-establishments-to-be-shuttered?fbclid=IwAR2SNp1TjWPNwEkftRD1M3z7HfBNVQctns08ZPgPdLgCVhD8hNcnvLpMGY8
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on March 14, 2020, 05:00:06 PM
"The nighttime curfew will take effect on March 15 to April 14, but some employees will be exempt, Garcia said, adding that violators will not be reprimanded and not arrested."

So there are no consequences if you violate the curfew hours? Hmmm, no enforcement of the rules. Where have I seen that before?
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: M.C.A. on March 16, 2020, 05:57:48 PM
Laguna, area now is in quarantine my area, I took a trip to the mall early to stalk up on bacon, quality hot dogs, ham and barako coffee, my grandson's birthday tomorrow and I purchased the large Red Ribbon chocolate cake.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on March 17, 2020, 09:21:18 AM
"The nighttime curfew will take effect on March 15 to April 14, but some employees will be exempt, Garcia said, adding that violators will not be reprimanded and not arrested."

So there are no consequences if you violate the curfew hours? Hmmm, no enforcement of the rules. Where have I seen that before?

The PNP have clarified that no one will be arrested for violating any LGU imposed curfew. They will however, arrest anyone who disobeys a lawful order (eg. go home) from a public official, verbally abuse or use force against, a public official. He defined arguing with police/military as abusing a public official.

Heads they win, tails you lose!


Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on March 17, 2020, 12:56:05 PM
As of today, this is in effect across Luzon.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Enhanced Community Quarantine for Luzon.
 
1. By virtue of an Executive Order of the Office of the President we will have a Luzon-wide community quarantine.
 
2. We will have a curfew of 8pm to 5am for non-essential personnel on the streets.  Exempted are health care workers, peace and order officers, workers from the night shift of the Processing zones with valid ID’s, and LGU officers.
 
3. Malls are ordered closed for the duration of the executive order.
 
4. Restaurants can only accept take-home and delivery services.  Dine in is strictly prohibited.
 
5. Banks, groceries, supermarkets, pharmacies, pawn shops, hardwares, and wet markets will remain open.
 
6. Fiestas, karakols, parades, and other related public assemblies are cancelled.
 
7. Common religious congregations are strongly discouraged.
 
8. Gaming parlours, computer gaming shops, wellness Centers, cockpits arenas, will be closed.
 
9. Students on OJT are no longer required to report.
 
10. Needless loitering in the streets at any time of the day will be denied.
 
11.  Public playgrounds, basketball courts, beaches, and public parks will be closed.
 
12. Public utility offices, Bayad centers, and related financial services will remain open.
 
13. ‘Tianges’, open dry good markets, side walk vending, will be closed.
 
14. This will become effective March 17, at 12:01 am.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Stay safe.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: medic3500 on March 17, 2020, 06:02:54 PM
Just got back from a trip into Manila. Yes the traffic on the main roads was lighter than normal and moving along nicely. What got my attention was after I got to the area I needed to be you would have not known anything was different. People everywhere walking in the streets like normal, conducting business as usual.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 18, 2020, 03:22:10 AM
Out bound flight update.

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2020/03/17/2001755/covid-19-task-force-recommends-allowing-outbound-flights-during-luzon-quarantine (https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2020/03/17/2001755/covid-19-task-force-recommends-allowing-outbound-flights-during-luzon-quarantine)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: iamjames on March 23, 2020, 08:36:27 PM
You will be getting many meaningless food temperature lasers pointed at your forehead.  Ask the person "what is  my temperature"? The answer will be anywhere between 32c - 33c. Normal body temperature is about 37c.
They do not have a clue. Its a sham just to pretend to the public that they know what they are doing. We use those infrared for gauging the correct temperature for the oil before cooking. 
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 24, 2020, 06:52:55 AM
Guess they are using the appropriate equipment here in Gen Trias, Cavite because my wife's temp is always in 37c range.

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on March 24, 2020, 08:43:02 AM
Right temp or not...our world is looking a very grim situation as whole very soon.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: FastWalk on March 24, 2020, 09:20:00 AM
Take the situation seriously,  I know most of your are or will.     Things are not that bad yet for anyone that is not sick or has income from dependable source.  Local workers are and will be having issues due to being restricted from going to work.  Most areas are in lock down of some sort.     
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: jjcabgou on March 24, 2020, 02:43:55 PM
Guess they are using the appropriate equipment here in Gen Trias, Cavite because my wife's temp is always in 37c range.

Chuck
Same here Chuck, I have been consistently around 36.5 (many many checks)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on March 24, 2020, 05:41:09 PM
My daughter is stuck in Manila.   Competing outta town and missed the call to bug-out.  She is pretty well stocked up.  I worry though.

We are all locked down here.  Our lives really have not changed that much.  More people around.  More kids underfoot.  But many hands make light work.

Today they just locked down Mangaldan township.  I see that as more of a secure assets thing than a stop the virus thing.  Two weeks ago I personally watched several sari sari stores close and move inventory.   I suspect that Mayors are doing the same thing right about now.

Ester posted the attachment to FB today.  She has a bit of a vindictive streak, (don't ask me its a Filipina thing).  Calling out all of her classmates for past eye-rolls.

We over look a national roadway.  After doing some quick napkin math we figure that there are half the supply trucks moving that need to be moving.  With the presumption that every truck we spotted was coming to our area and not transiting to somewhere else.

I shut down most of the electrical at sundown.  Save wear and tear on the system.  Attract less attention.  You don't notice how bad CFL and LED bulbs are until you switch back to Kerosene lamps.

Folks not having electronics at night are fun to watch.  Rook and Monopoly are all the rage right now.


I'm hearing that they are having good luck with Hydroxychloroquine and Z-Paks. (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-vladimir-zelenko-finds-100-success-rate-in-350-patients-using-hydroxychloroquine-with-z-paks-video/)  I wonder if  the older form of Quinine works?

Y'all be safe out there.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on March 26, 2020, 07:52:36 AM
For all you fellow expats, spouses, siblings...etc.
I think you should take exterme warning above & beyond of what you are being fed by the local barangay news.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: jjcabgou on March 26, 2020, 01:48:48 PM
For all you fellow expats, spouses, siblings...etc.
I think you should take exterme warning above & beyond of what you are being fed by the local barangay news.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)

What exactly are we being fed?  I am not being told anything here that seems outlandish.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 26, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
JJ, I am confused too.  Not sure what MotorSarge is trying say/insinuate.  Wondering what Brgy he lives in that might give him that impression.

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on March 26, 2020, 11:13:53 PM
 Our condo complex just  announced that we have to wear masks if we're outside our unit (it's not a city requirement though) and they just started checking your temperature at the entrance gate. The city asked for 1 name from each household so they could print a "day pass" so 1 person could go out and buy food/medicine, but I don't think they'll actually make the passes. They can't even print a driver's license or license plate. It's been a multi-year scam where you pay for those services and just get a slip of paper saying you have them but nothing is ever given. So I don't think they can't print 100,000 custom "day passes" in a week. The traffic here has been reduced by 90%. I just read yesterday that they won’t do the day passes.
I walked to 7-11 today 1 mile round trip and bought some food. They now are open from 8 am-5 pm so I should call it 8-5.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on March 27, 2020, 01:18:52 AM
With all sarcasm put aside,
Not trying to insinuate or excite anyone but if you are able to watch the stats on any world news you can see that daily paper passes and someone checking your temp with a meat thermometer is no match for what is going on.
I lost my 82 year old Uncle on the 14th from COVID19 and my oldest brother just got released from ICU 2 days ago, both are from populated places.
It is going to take the right teams and individual extreme measures to control & stop this.
Even countries with medium to large medical supplies, teams and personnel are overwhelmed and some are getting sick themselves.
Yes this is hard to do in highly concentrated populated areas but we need heed to what our medical teams and experts are instructing to do (and yes they are not all experts, some of them are just wearing a badge and passing what was passed to them).
I currently live in one of the most isolated places in the world, isolated by personnel count and by distance, not by choice and I'm still worried for my family with me and in Luzon.
I'm not a man of deep religion but I pray for us all... :(
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on March 27, 2020, 05:27:54 AM
For all you fellow expats, spouses, siblings...etc.
I think you should take exterme warning above & beyond of what you are being fed by the local barangay news.

What exactly are we being fed?  I am not being told anything here that seems outlandish.

JJ, I am confused too.  Not sure what MotorSarge is trying say/insinuate.  Wondering what Brgy he lives in that might give him that impression.



Y'all know that my view of the world and its leadership is .... uhhmmmm ....... distorted.  That being said here is how I understood the good Sgt.



Excerpt from an interview with Vice Admiral James Stockdale.

"When Collins asked, “Who didn’t make it out [of the POW camp],” Stockdale replied,

    Oh that’s easy. The optimists. They were the ones who said, ‘we’re going to be out by Christmas.’ And then Christmas would come, and Christmas would go.

    And then they’d say, ‘We’re going to be out by Easter.’ And then Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving. And then it would be Christmas again.

    And they died of a broken heart.

    “This is a very important lesson,” Stockdale continued. “You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose– with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."



"This is the situation that each of us is facing right now.


We want to be optimists. We want to believe that this pandemic is going to magically vanish tomorrow morning and that we’ll all be able to go on with our lives as if nothing has changed.

But that’s not going to happen.

The brutal facts of our reality are that this pandemic continues to spread rapidly, and it has the potential to kill millions of people.

Reducing that projection requires shutting down the entire global economy… resulting in a wide range of catastrophic consequences, including tens of trillions of dollars of prosperity wiped out, countless jobs lost, millions of bankruptcies and defaults, entire governments going broke, and more.

Saving the economy condemns millions to die. But saving millions from dying condemns hundreds of millions to suffer.

These are the facts. And they are brutal. "




https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/powerful-wisdom-from-one-of-the-toughest-men-who-ever-lived-27575/ (https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/powerful-wisdom-from-one-of-the-toughest-men-who-ever-lived-27575/)





Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 27, 2020, 06:59:03 AM
Optimism like anything else needs to be tempered with reality! Yes we have a pass for one individual per household in our subdivision, brgy, municipality.  Is the virus spreading of course it is and will continue until it reaches its peak, then like most others will decrease.  Will the COVID19 be worse than the flu in mortality rates is still to be determined.  So is it time to panic or just time to follow the rules set in place to reduce the risk to the general population?  I have never been a proponent of "the sky is falling" scenario.  JMHO

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on March 27, 2020, 08:43:52 AM
I have never been a proponent of "the sky is falling" scenario.  JMHO

Times like these ya gotta have a little humor.   Sorry I just can't resist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro).
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on March 27, 2020, 08:44:29 AM
My kind of leader....I don't worry about the sky falling...JMHO....SIHTF....and ignorance is in the same race that the COVID19 is in right now.

 /r/ until 30 March 2020
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on March 27, 2020, 09:58:11 AM
"it has the potential to kill millions of people."
You have the potential to win the lottery tomorrow. You have the potential to die in a car accident this week. There are a lot of POTENTIAL things that COULD happen IF they happen. I know you included that guy's whole article, but there has to be a balance between a worst case scenario and a realistic scenario. HIV killed around 1 million humans last year. The 2009 swine influenza pandemic caused around 200,000 deaths. The normal influenza virus caused around 500,000 deaths last year. So far, COVID19 has claimed around 21,000 lives. It's not over yet, but is it worse than malaria, dengue, hepatitis B, and ebola?

From the World Health Organization:
The Ten Biggest Killers
About 52 million people died from all causes in 1995, according to the report. Of these, more than 17 million were killed by infectious diseases.

Acute lower respiratory infections such as pneumonia killed 4.4 million people, about 4 million of whom were children.

Diarrhoeal diseases, including cholera, typhoid and dysentery, spread chiefly by contaminated water or food, killed 3.1 million, most of them children.

Tuberculosis killed almost 3.1 million, mostly adults.

Malaria killed 2.1 million people, including 1 million children.

Hepatitis B infections killed more than 1.1 million people.

HIV/AIDS killed more than 1 million people.

Measles killed more than 1 million children.

Neonatal tetanus killed almost 460 000 infants.

Whooping cough (pertussis) killed 355 000 children.

Intestinal worm diseases killed at least 135 000 people.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on March 27, 2020, 10:33:34 AM
My kind of leader....I don't worry about the sky falling...JMHO....SIHTF....and ignorance is in the same race that the COVID19 is in right now.

 /r/ until 30 March 2020

To me ignorance is trying to peddle a panic when common sense should prevail.  Follow the published policies to keep the spread to the minimum, so hopefully the medical community can manage the situation.  The more testing done the more that will be identified as having COVID19, that is just a fact.  But once identified they can be treated/confined as appropriate or would it be better to not identify and let the infected roam freely and infect more individuals? The beast is out of the box and now is the time press forward with keeping the infected to a minimum.  Doctors are already saying this will be a yearly cycle like the other virus, but hopefully next year there will be a vaccine.

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on March 27, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
I know you included that guy's whole article


Are you talking to me? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp6KExqs_3o).
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: jjcabgou on April 01, 2020, 11:32:33 AM
"it has the potential to kill millions of people."
You have the potential to win the lottery tomorrow. You have the potential to die in a car accident this week. There are a lot of POTENTIAL things that COULD happen IF they happen. I know you included that guy's whole article, but there has to be a balance between a worst case scenario and a realistic scenario. HIV killed around 1 million humans last year. The 2009 swine influenza pandemic caused around 200,000 deaths. The normal influenza virus caused around 500,000 deaths last year. So far, COVID19 has claimed around 21,000 lives. It's not over yet, but is it worse than malaria, dengue, hepatitis B, and ebola?

From the World Health Organization:
The Ten Biggest Killers
About 52 million people died from all causes in 1995, according to the report. Of these, more than 17 million were killed by infectious diseases.

Acute lower respiratory infections such as pneumonia killed 4.4 million people, about 4 million of whom were children.

Diarrhoeal diseases, including cholera, typhoid and dysentery, spread chiefly by contaminated water or food, killed 3.1 million, most of them children.

Tuberculosis killed almost 3.1 million, mostly adults.

Malaria killed 2.1 million people, including 1 million children.

Hepatitis B infections killed more than 1.1 million people.

HIV/AIDS killed more than 1 million people.

Measles killed more than 1 million children.

Neonatal tetanus killed almost 460 000 infants.

Whooping cough (pertussis) killed 355 000 children.

Intestinal worm diseases killed at least 135 000 people.
False equivalence in many, if not most, of the cases above.  First HIV/AIDS, this is not transmitted thru the air or contact with a contaminated surface etc.,  Dengue is transmitted by mosquitoes and kills about 25k annually etc., additionally many of the illnesses above there are vaccines for, however, worldwide,most people do not get a vaccine.  We are dealing with a virus which there is no vaccine and is highly transmissible.    Not sure the point you were trying to make, however, I inferred you think that the "world" is over reacting?    If that is the case, I strongly disagree. 
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 02, 2020, 12:31:51 AM
False equivalence in many, if not most, of the cases above.  First HIV/AIDS, this is not transmitted thru the air or contact with a contaminated surface etc.,  Dengue is transmitted by mosquitoes and kills about 25k annually etc., additionally many of the illnesses above there are vaccines for, however, worldwide,most people do not get a vaccine.  We are dealing with a virus which there is no vaccine and is highly transmissible.    Not sure the point you were trying to make, however, I inferred you think that the "world" is over reacting?    If that is the case, I strongly disagree.
My point was there are far deadlier viruses out there. I just added that list to compare it to the deaths of COVID-19. We could isolate it down to just viruses. Influenza is transmitted through the air and you can get it from a contaminated surface. The normal influenza virus caused around 500,000 deaths last year. There is a vaccine for that and yet it still causes a ton of deaths. COVID-19 does not have a vaccine and has caused around 44,000 deaths in the first 3 months of this year. Could it cause 200,000 deaths by the end of the year? That's still less than influenza.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 02, 2020, 07:39:13 AM
My point was there are far deadlier viruses out there.

From across the room LIS butts in with ........

My point is that doing what your told, not doing what your told, panic, don't panic, it's deadly, it's just the flu .... it doesn't really matter.   

The damage is done.  The order that you have enjoyed for your whole life cannot be put back together again.  Humpty Dumpty is down for the count.

The last time a shock like this,  ( which was 1/100th as big as this one ), occurred ....

it caused a global depression that lasted 14 years and cost 7 million deaths in what was at the time the richest, most capable nation on the earth.   

There is no accurate accounting of how many deaths it precipitated here.

Please stop, insert the everlasting gob-stopper for a second, and really think about what those facts mean for you and your family.

Understand that optimism is no longer enough.   It's going to take grim damn determination put into action.   Even that may not suffice.

So y'all can harangue each other with info from documented liars till the cows come home. 

But I am growing tomato's.  I'm helping my neighbors grow tomato's.  I sincerely suggest in the strongest of terms that you do likewise. 

If I am wrong you have dirty fingernails and home grown veg.  If I am right you are the only one with veg.

Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 02, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
From across the room LIS butts in with ........


The last time a shock like this,  ( which was 1/100th as big as this one ), occurred ....

it caused a global depression that lasted 14 years and cost 7 million deaths in what was at the time the richest, most capable nation on the earth.   

There is no accurate accounting of how many deaths it precipitated here.



what event was this and what year did it occur?
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 03, 2020, 03:44:45 AM
what event was this and what year did it occur?


Please tell me your joking.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 03, 2020, 10:09:23 AM

Please tell me your joking.

I don't know what you're referring to either. Is it some sort of "You should know it or you die!" event? Or maybe just Custer's last stand?

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 03, 2020, 10:29:58 AM
"You should know it or you die!" event?

Possibly.

There was a time when I would gallop off into a multi page rant festooned with proofs and videos.  Painfully, I have learned to reserve that value for more worthy recipients. 

From my perspective this thread has just careened into the surreal.  But I do try to help as much as I can.  To that end I offer these tidbits.

Pedring, User there are two quotes that y'all should internalize.  Please do not think of this as any sort of disparagement.  It is not given as such.  It is presented as a friend discretely notifying you that your fly is open.

1.)  Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/doomed-to-repeat-it).

2.)  “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6145-who-controls-the-past-controls-the-future-who-controls-the).

3.)  In direct answer to User's question try this (https://googlethatforyou.com?q=%20Great%20depression).



As an aside,  those of you who have grudgingly tolerated my presence know that I am a subject matter expert on transforming feces into something useful.

In that train of thought, I wonder if this little nugget of corn might be useful to some.

Coronavirus relief: Withdraw $100K from your IRA  (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-stimulus-package-tax-relief-withdraw-100k-from-your-ira-and-repay-in-3-years-with-zero-tax-liability-2020-03-27)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 03, 2020, 07:03:11 PM


it caused a global depression that lasted 14 years and cost 7 million deaths in what was at the time the richest, most capable nation on the earth.   

There is no accurate accounting of how many deaths it precipitated here.

I've read different accounts of how many years it lasted in the USA. Do you have any credible sources for the 7 million deaths claim? I have never heard of the mortality numbers being that high. When I tried to look it up, the only site I found that claimed 7 million people starved to death was a shady Russian propaganda site.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 04, 2020, 06:04:42 AM
shady Russian propaganda site.

I don't know.  Under the current P.C.R.O.E. that smells racist.  Does that mean the information is automatically false?

When I tried to look it up, the only site I found

Uhmmm ....  Your ability to learn is not my responsibility.  What is work harder?

I spent 2 minutes on DuckDuck  (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=great+depression+deaths&t=canonical&ia=web) and found hundreds of discussions that got all down into the nitty gritty of what caused this or is diagnosed as that, and did whoever even have the ability to compile .... whatever.


My point is ......


You should consider the parallels between then and the present day.  It might give you a broader perspective to extrapolate from.

Since you are not familiar (https://www.livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php?topic=53732.msg91130#msg91130), you should start here (https://mises.org/library/what-you-must-read-about-great-depression) IMO.




I am warning that this virus is not the issue to be focused on.  It's your call.  Or not. 

You have the freedom to reap the benefits or face the consequences.

You do as you see fit.   I don't have a problem with anyone until they try to "socialize" the "shared responsibility" of their consequences onto my benefits.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 04, 2020, 11:25:16 AM
Wow I missed a lil bit, I guess I'm the only one who has had Chinese take out, Ville style Korean Kugogi or the most racist yet...Filipino Spaghetti.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 04, 2020, 04:08:19 PM
Wow I missed a lil bit, I guess I'm the only one who has had Chinese take out, Ville style Korean Kugogi or the most racist yet...Filipino Spaghetti.

Har. Har. Har.  ;) ;) ;)

I like Scotch eggs, but not Balut.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 04, 2020, 11:46:05 PM
You can't do that...it's Poached Eggs with French Fries....I meant Freedom Fries!
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 05, 2020, 04:04:53 AM
I don't know.  Under the current P.C.R.O.E. that smells racist.  Does that mean the information is automatically false?

Uhmmm ....  Your ability to learn is not my responsibility.  What is work harder?

I spent 2 minutes on DuckDuck  (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=great+depression+deaths&t=canonical&ia=web) and found hundreds of discussions that got all down into the nitty gritty of what caused this or is diagnosed as that, and did whoever even have the ability to compile .... whatever.

Are you saying you can’t find a credible source for 7 million deaths during the Great Depression?
I think you made that number up and can’t find anything to support your claim.

Did you actually look at any of those DuckDuckGo links? It said the mortality rate went down and contrary to popular belief, life expectancy goes up during a recession.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765209/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765209/)
They looked at the mortality rate between 1920-1940. It does not support your theory.

Give me a source for 7 million deaths or stop posting outrageous claims.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 05, 2020, 05:25:35 AM
Are you saying you can’t find a credible source for 7 million deaths during the Great Depression?

No.  I am saying that you are not the final word on what is credible.  I do not give you that privilege.

Give me a source for 7 million deaths or stop posting outrageous claims.

Nor do you have the authority to demand censorship.  Your just another schmuck like me.   

At least I knew the Great Depression occurred.   So using your M.O. that makes my judgment in these matters superior to yours.

Since you seem to have an authoritarian mind set,  Here is an alternative . 

You read just some of the "must read books" about the the Great Depression.



Which imperative is better?  A call for silencing.  Or one for educating?


BTW.  These are the folks you quote so readily.

WHO Director Tedros (https://www.roughestimate.org/roughestimate/the-crimes-of-tedros-adhanom).

Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 05, 2020, 01:35:49 PM
No.  I am saying that you are not the final word on what is credible.  I do not give you that privilege.


You're losing credibility by making up outrageous claims, failing to provide a specific source from where you acquired that information, and then trying to blame others for questioning your dubious numbers. 
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 05, 2020, 04:10:42 PM
You're losing credibility by making up outrageous claims, failing to provide a specific source from where you acquired that information, and then trying to blame others for questioning your dubious numbers.

I don't have to provide a source just because you demand it.  The burden of research is on you.

I went above and beyond and linked you in the right direction.  It's up to you to find it.  I did.

Best as I can see you went to the first site linked, cherry picked out of the comments section, and absorbed that as your opinion.   Not a lot of due diligence there. 

Like I said your inability to learn is not my problem.
 
I'm losing credibility with you?  Well I guess it's a good thing that your opinion does not register in my value system. 


Just to refresh everyone, and hopefully drag this thread, kicking and screaming, back on topic.

The economic effects of this pandemic are going to be much worse than the virus itself.  Those effects are permanent.  Lifestyles as we have known them have now changed.

This has already occurred.  The longer this continues the worse it will get.  And its gonna take more than optimism to get through this. 

Help yourself and help your neighbors.


How it is going to shake out, I don't know.  But a good comparison can be made to the Great Depression. 

Mr. Borisov stated in "Where did America's missing millions go? (https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2008/russia-081015-rt01.htm)" that according to his research 7.3 million people were lost in the 10 years from 1931 to 1940. 

He also states that "that an immediate double change in the population dynamics in a country with a population of one hundred million people is only possible in case of mass mortality."

I interpret that as 7 million Americans died as a result of the Great Depression.

Which, User, is why you are not the Judge Dredd of what is credible.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Hank on April 05, 2020, 08:29:34 PM
Govt eyes 15-day lockdown extension

By Catherine S. Valente, TMT 20 hrs ago
https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/national/govt-eyes-15-day-lockdown-extension/ar-BB12ayXv (https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/national/govt-eyes-15-day-lockdown-extension/ar-BB12ayXv)


The government is studying the possibility of extending the Luzon-wide enhanced community quarantine (ECQ) by 15 days to sustain its gains from its efforts to stop the spread of the coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) in the country, a Cabinet official said on Saturday.

Presidential peace adviser Carlito Galvez Jr., the chief implementer of the national policy against Covid-19, said the lockdown imposed on the island has led to a slower increase in the number of coronavirus cases.

“Maganda po ang nagawa ng lockdown. Na-slow down…ang spread ng virus (The lockdown has been really helpful. It slowed down the spread of the virus),” Galvez said in an interview with DZBB radio.

“With that, nakita namin na malaki ang possibility na magkakaroon ng lockdown ng 15 more days (We see that there is a big possibility that we will have a 15-day lockdown extension)” he added.

Galvez emphasized, however, that the government needed to consider various factors before deciding on whether to lift or extend the quarantine.

President Rodrigo Duterte expanded the community quarantine he initially imposed on Metro Manila to Luzon on March 16 to contain the spread of Covid-19 in the country.

As of Saturday, the Philippines has 3,094 confirmed coronavirus cases. Of these, 144 died and 57 recovered.

Galvez’s comments came after Cabinet Secretary Karlo Alexei Nograles said a thorough evaluation was needed before the government decides on lifting or extending the lockdown, which is set to end on April 12 ...

Cheers,
Hank
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 06, 2020, 12:21:10 PM
Mr. Borisov stated in "Where did America's missing millions go?" that according to his research 7.3 million people were lost in the 10 years from 1931 to 1940.

He also states that "that an immediate double change in the population dynamics in a country with a population of one hundred million people is only possible in case of mass mortality."
  >

" ... Immediate double change." ...  " ..  in the 10 years ... "  in the same breath?? His stated opinion.

Now my stated opinion.
Maybe over that 10 years, too many families, who had been abandoned in a country which did not have a safety net in place at that time, decided that the US government didn't deserve to get their taxes, so they stopped paying in.
My stated opinion only, which has as much relevance, or irrelevance, as anyone elses.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 06, 2020, 04:19:32 PM
Now my stated opinion.
Maybe over that 10 years, too many families, who had been abandoned in a country which did not have a safety net in place at that time, decided that the US government didn't deserve to get their taxes, so they stopped paying in.

I just wanna make sure I understand what your saying.   This was a mass protest because there was a lack of the Nanny-State?

Sounds like futilely  grasping for any straw to legitimize collectivism, (while its many failures are being highlighted by the current crisis),  than a reality based opinion to me.

Kinda along the lines of believing that you feel bloated because you have purple flying monkeys in your butt.   

The theory fits the symptoms, but unless your on acid in the Land of Oz,  its not really plausible. 

But hey your welcome to it. 
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 06, 2020, 05:55:32 PM
<  I just wanna make sure I understand what your saying.   This was a mass protest because there was a lack of the Nanny-State?   >

No. Misinterpretation. When people don't trust governments to spend their money wisely, they will withhold their taxes. No tax records, can't be counted.

Simple enough for you?

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 06, 2020, 11:21:32 PM
No. Misinterpretation. When people don't trust governments to spend their money wisely, they will withhold their taxes. No tax records, can't be counted.

Simple enough for you?

Peter
Not realistic.  The nation is very polarized.  Each side has their own share of billionaires who own/run massive corporations that employ thousands and thousands.  Those company owners report the taxes owed/paid by their workers.  This is a very real setup for a vast majority of Americans.  They have a boss, who pays them through a finance department that holds all the records on taxes for all of their employers. 

The more independent minded workers who do there own business/self-employment can get away with it, but the rest, which again are a vast majority will struggle at hiding their income/taxes paid in/taxes owed.  It will turn really ugly maybe, but it won't be as simple as you're laying it out to be.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 07, 2020, 04:44:37 AM
No. Misinterpretation. When people don't trust governments to spend their money wisely, they will withhold their taxes. No tax records, can't be counted.

And with that tidbit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y3FzVQi-R8) this conversation just went negative R.O.I.


Hopefully today I will receive more containers. So what is a better use of time, given the current circumstances?

Building digesters and distributing planters, or continue this back and forth? 

{sarc on}

Hmmmmm   ...... Let me check with my investment advisor.

..... Ring Ring ..... Ring Ring ..... Ring Ring ......

"Hey Morty what do you think?"

"Uh huh .... Mmmmmmm .... Oooh .... Ahhhhh .....  Yup ...... Got it.       Click."

Morty says I should go back to playing with sh_t.  It's more intellectually stimulating, and productive.

{/sarc off}

In parting,  I will offer something of value to offset the drain.

 A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960 (https://b-ok.cc/book/1271829/38e028) - Milton Friedman, Anna Jacobson Schwartz
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 07, 2020, 09:10:26 AM
Not realistic.  The nation is very polarized.  Each side has their own share of billionaires who own/run massive corporations that employ thousands and thousands.  Those company owners report the taxes owed/paid by their workers.  This is a very real setup for a vast majority of Americans.  They have a boss, who pays them through a finance department that holds all the records on taxes for all of their employers. 

The more independent minded workers who do there own business/self-employment can get away with it, but the rest, which again are a vast majority will struggle at hiding their income/taxes paid in/taxes owed.  It will turn really ugly maybe, but it won't be as simple as you're laying it out to be.

Jeol.

I was referring to the 1930's when the state of record keeping was not what it is today.

Many could drop off the record (especially if they were born during WW I, meaning they would achieve "working age" in the 30's) if they didn't "register" as a tax paying employee, but worked for themselves, became career criminals, Hoboes (sp?) or a myriad of other things.

It was a time of great flux and I'm sure record keeping came along way down the list, after putting food on the family's table.

In today's state, everyone is probably on a govt. database somewhere. Meaning you're just a number on a digital roll and the tax man will get you in the end.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 07, 2020, 12:59:37 PM
Jeol.

I was referring to the 1930's when the state of record keeping was not what it is today.

Many could drop off the record (especially if they were born during WW I, meaning they would achieve "working age" in the 30's) if they didn't "register" as a tax paying employee, but worked for themselves, became career criminals, Hoboes (sp?) or a myriad of other things.

It was a time of great flux and I'm sure record keeping came along way down the list, after putting food on the family's table.

In today's state, everyone is probably on a govt. database somewhere. Meaning you're just a number on a digital roll and the tax man will get you in the end.

Peter
Ah, thanks for clearing that up.  On that base, I agree if such would have happened back then it would have been a mess.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 07, 2020, 10:14:33 PM

This is a longer post, but it corrects the false and misleading information a special Living in the Philippines (LitP) member has been making about 7 million Americans dying in a famine in the 1930s. If you read until the end, you will find out how he was gullible enough to believe a pro-Russia, anti-America "news" outlet, how he was ignorant of the facts that he could have looked up himself, how his response was immature, and how his stubbornness will not allow him to let go of his pride and admit he was wrong.   

When doing critical analysis of a new claim, you need to look at the author's credibility, any potential bias, and the facts they used.

The burden of proof lies on the one making the new claim. When I challenged him to this, our special LitP member finally acquiesced like a good boy, but did zero investigation of his own and provided a source I had already read, and that I had dismissed as lacking any credibility. 

Let's look at the article. Boris Borisov is listed as a historian and wrote "Where did America’s missing millions go? Holodomor Lessons." The author puts his entire claim on 1 faulty calculation that he based on the US population from 1910-1940, and he doesn't fully understand the low birth rate at that time, the number of deportations, the huge drop in immigration, and the increase in emigration.   

Let's see how our special LitP member bit Boris' big bait and got hooked.  

Comrade Boris' article was written on April 4, 2008 and was first posted on Russia Today on Oct 15, 2008. 
Russia Today is the first Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.  They are funded by the Russian government and their American news company (RT America) was ordered to register as a foreign agent in 2017 because they participate in political activity. They complied. In other countries, RT has been fined for biased reporting (and they paid the fine), and RT reporters have quit due to RT's disinformation campaigns. 

Comrade Boris' original article is supposed to be at https://www.rt.com/features/news/31913/ (https://www.rt.com/features/news/31913/) but the website shows a 404 error.  It is archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20081018161615/http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/31913 from Oct 18, 2008. Why would RT remove Comrade Boris' article from their website? That webpage has been like that for years.   

They kept his interview about his original article from Oct 22, 2008. 
https://www.rt.com/usa/interview-with-boris-borisov/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/interview-with-boris-borisov/) 

First, who is Boris Borisov? What credentials does he have? Has he written any books? Has he published any peer-reviewed articles in any journals? Does he teach at a university? Does he have a history of quality journalism? Who is his employer?
 
Nothing is listed about him except that he is a historian. This is his only article on RT. 

What bias might he have?  Look at the title and his last sentence. In 2008, Russia was getting a lot of bad press from the US and other countries about the Ukrainian famine (Holodomor) that occurred in 1932, and Comrade Boris was trying to compare that to the 1930s in America. When Stalin led the Soviet Union, an estimated 5-7 million people starved to death. His last line says "In fact, the U.S. should stop barking at Russia, which they usually do, and sniff their own butt instead." He is prejudiced against America for chastising Russia and is looking to find a "you did it too" event. He also calls America the "Western Evil Empire." 

Comrade Boris makes several false claims at the beginning of his article.  

He writes "just like you won’t find anything on the genocide of the indigenous people. American politicians don’t give passionate speeches on the subject." 

He hasn't done enough research because in 2000, the "the head of the federal Bureau of Indian Affairs apologized Friday for the agency's "legacy of racism and inhumanity" that included massacres, forced relocations of tribes and attempts to wipe out Indian languages and cultures."https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000908/aponline153014_000.htm 

Ouch Boris! You're loosing credibility just like our special LitP member! 

Comrade Boris writes, "Of course, according to the American version of history 'millions of men, women and children became the victims the criminal and cruel totalitarian regime in the Soviet Union'. American history cannot be described in these terms. Let’s disprove this myth, using American sources."

Later in his footnotes, he says "U.S. information is not reliable." 

Ok Boris. You're going to try and prove something with information you don't think is reliable. That makes a lot of sense. 
 
Comrade Boris also claims "statistics from 1932 were destroyed – or hidden very well. They just don’t exist. No explanation is given."  
If you look on the Statistical Abstracts page, the explanation says "Note: No abstract was prepared for year 1932." https://www.census.gov/library/publications/time-series/statistical_abstracts.html  

They also didn't prepare an Abstract in 1923 or 1927. Boom! Another hit on Boris! And our special LitP member believes this guy? 

Comrade Boris isn't looking at the correct population chart. He falsely claims "the numbers of increase in population change at one point by 2 times - exactly at the border betwee [there was no "n" in the article] 1930/31. They fall and freeze at this level for 10 years. And just as suddenly, a decade later, they climb back up."

Wrong again Comrade! According to the Vital Statistics of the United States (Census Bureau) publication, the US population increased by about 1 million people every year from 1930-1940. It never falls and freezes. Never! Boom! Strike 3! https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=JsR6qeDfUtwC&pg=RA3-PA16&lpg=RA3-PA16&dq=125,690,000+1933+population&source=bl&ots=O39uEogv2c&sig=ACfU3U0RLv49ZtV-5qfQ6E7bf4W0MTsXrA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj8_82mx9XoAhUVL6YKHRHUDTUQ6AEwCnoECAwQLw#v=onepage&q=125%2C690%2C000%201933%20population&f=false (https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=JsR6qeDfUtwC&pg=RA3-PA16&lpg=RA3-PA16&dq=125,690,000+1933+population&source=bl&ots=O39uEogv2c&sig=ACfU3U0RLv49ZtV-5qfQ6E7bf4W0MTsXrA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj8_82mx9XoAhUVL6YKHRHUDTUQ6AEwCnoECAwQLw#v=onepage&q=125%2C690%2C000%201933%20population&f=false)  

Comrade Boris is only looking at the Statistical Abstracts data between 1931 to 1940. Why he used these statistical summaries (that include social, political, and economic data) as opposed to the actual census data, we'll never know. 

He tries to make the claim that there should have been about a 15% increase in the US population from 1930-1940. In 1932, there were about 125 million people, and by 1940, Comrade Boris thought there should have been around 141 million people, but there were only around 132 million people. 

He writes, "According to the calculations, in 1940, the US population should have amounted to at least 141,856,000 people, given that the previous demographic tendency was preserved."

What calculations? What tendency? He doesn't list them or provide any statistical modeling. My theory is that he looked at the previous 20 years and tried to come up with a projected number. He didn't look at 30 years ago, 40, 50, 60, etc. He limited himself to a narrow window of 20 years. 

Let's look at the US Population table https://www.census.gov/population/censusdata/table-4.pdf (https://www.census.gov/population/censusdata/table-4.pdf) 

1940 (Apr. 1) 132,164,569
1930 (Apr. 1) 123,202,624
1920 (Jan. 1) 106,021,537
1910 (Apr. 15) 92,228,496
1900 (June 1)  76,212,168

From 1930-1940, there was an increase of 7.3%.  
From 1920-1930, there was an increase of 16.2%.  
From 1910-1920, there was an increase of 15%.  
From 1900-1910, there was an increase of 21%.

My theory is that Comrade Boris calculated that since 1920-1930 had an increase of 16.2% and 1910-1920 had an increase of 15%, 1930-1940 should have had a similar number. His projection of at least 141,856,000 people by 1940 means he was expecting a 15.14% increase in the population. When this did not happen, he concluded that millions of people died.

What he failed to acknowledge was that since 1880, the population rate had been declining. The population was increasing, but not as quickly. Look at the full census chart on that webpage. It was growing quickly around 1880 but had not grown as fast since then. Why didn't Comrade Boris balk at the 6% drop (21%->15%) from 1910-1920? 

Comrade Boris says "we can surely say there were around 5 million victims of the Holodomor of 1932/33 in the United States."

What other historians have verified this claim? None. 

Where are the graves of 5 million people dying in one year? They don't exist. 
Influenza killed around 675,000 Americans in 1918 and there are plenty of facts, pictures, and data about that. But nothing was recorded about 5 million people dying in 1932?   Come on, Comrade. 

Go look at the mortality statistics for 1932 and 1933 on the census. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/vsus/vsus_1890_1938.htm 

1932 - the top killers were cancer, heart disease, and kidney infections (page 11). No starvation. No malnutrition. 
1933 - the top killers were tuberculosis, cancer, blood clots, and heart disease (pages 36-39). No starvation. No malnutrition. 
   

If you look at the RT interview with Comrade Boris posted above, he says "Seven and a half million people does not mean the number of particular victims of the famine, but a general demographic loss, or the difference between the supposed population on the date of the census that was due to be held in 1940 and the factual number of people."

So a week after he posted that article, Comrade Boris is now saying that they all didn't die of a famine. Come on son! Face the facts! Boom!

Comrade Boris used an unknown statistical model to predict how many people should have been alive by a certain year, and when reality didn't fit his prediction, he made up the claim that people had died. Why was there a drop in population numbers? A low birth rate, deportations, a huge drop in immigration, and an increase in emigration.

The birth rate was already dropping in the late 1920s. The number of births was the lowest it has ever been in 1933. If you look at 1900-1929, and then from 1940-2000, you can see that the number of births were at the lowest point in the 1930s.  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/statab/t001x01.pdf 

Immigration dropped by at least 50%. For each decade since 1900, immigration was around 8 million, 6 million, and 4 million. In the 1930s, it was 699,375. That means at least 2-3 million potential immigrants were denied entry or didn't come to the USA because of the economic depression. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Yearbook_Immigration_Statistics_2008.pdf Table 2, page 13

1-2 million Mexicans were deported in the 1930s. Boom! Comrade Boris didn't mention that! These numbers did not show up on the emigration tables.   
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/americas-brutal-forgotten-history-of-illegal-deportations/517971/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/americas-brutal-forgotten-history-of-illegal-deportations/517971/)  

Around 2.5 million emigrants departed from 1930-1940.  
page 23 https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/1949/compendia/hist_stats_1789-1945/hist_stats_1789-1945-chB.pdf (https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/1949/compendia/hist_stats_1789-1945/hist_stats_1789-1945-chB.pdf) 

That's about 7 million people. 
The population from 1930-1940 increased from 123 million people to 132 million. Comrade Boris was predicting 141 million based on the growth rate of the previous 20 years. What are some reasons for not as many people being recorded on the census? People were deported, emigrated (he does mention this), had a low birth rate (he mentions this too), barred from entry to the States due to President Hoover's strict immigration policy that was modified in 1929, died (but not 5 million in one year), or just didn't fill out the census form. 

Boom! Our special LitP member has just been smacked in the face with a bunch of facts, but he is too stubborn to face the truth. He doesn't want to admit that he was wrong and that he believed an anti-America "news" site. What's worse, he is trying to spread false information to others. It really is a shame that he did minimal to zero due diligence, he blindly trusted an author with no credibility, and he exposed his own ignorance on this thread. His immature responses show his true character. Immature. Lazy. Gullible.    

Boom!  Check out philosophy. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The burden of proof lies with the one who makes a new claim. Due to his poor research skills, inability to comprehend data, and lazy work ethic, I have given him a free education today. 
I really pity his state of mind and wish that as he grows up, he will improve in life. 


In conclusion, what other credible news outlets have posted Comrade Boris' article? None.
Since 2008, there have been a few fringe blog sites, conspiracy theory sites, and small news aggregate sites that host it.     

Comrade Boris may only be familiar with a government controlled media outlet. In the US, there is freedom of the press. Countless independent journalists, newspaper writers, and photographers crisscrossed the country in the 1930s and reported on events. Not a single picture, newspaper article, or report was ever written about millions of Americans dying of a famine. The US census data confirms there was not millions of people dying in 1 year. The population was increasing, the mortality rate was dropping, and the life expectancy was growing. Our special LitP member bit Boris' big bait and got hooked, and those who are not ignorant, gullible, or lazy will avoid believing these outrageous claims.  

I'm ok with someone being ignorant in their own little world, but once you try sharing false or misleading topics with others, I will cut you down to size and send you back to your little corner. Boom! 
 



Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 08, 2020, 04:51:03 AM
I will cut you down to size and send you back to your little corner. Boom!


Feel better? 

I'm comfortable with being the vehicle of your ECQ stress relief.  Glad to be of service ......  Though I notice your response lacked the testicular fortitude (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_4jrMwvZ2A) to address me directly.

I would remind you that we now have two more weeks to go.  This ECQ has already been extended once.  It is not unreasonable to think that it might be extended again, or even indefinitely.  So pace yourself.


You sure tore Boris a new one.  And by extension me (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html).  Good for you.  It s_cks to be me.

Thanks for doing the research.  I do appreciate it.

But does calling into question one supporting factoid in a conversation invalidate the entire talk?

Which you never actually discussed.  Even after I presented you with the opportunity to .... multiple times. 

Why don't you want to discuss those ideas?  Why the tunnel vision emphasis on Boris?  Why the avoidance of my main topic?


My point is, (for the fourth time).

This pandemic continues to spread rapidly, and it has the potential to kill.

Reducing that potential has shut down the entire global economy, resulting in a wide range of catastrophic consequences.

That economic damage is done.  Lifestyles as we have known them have now changed.

Optimism is not enough.   It's going to take action.

So,  you can debate the details ad nauseum, (as you so clearly evidenced),  but I am taking action in my life and my community.  I suggest you do the same.


I believe that you focused on what ever detail you could exploit.  And repeatedly avoided the concepts you could not.


You built a Straw Man (https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/#strawman).  Then knocked it down (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liPSTWdYiKs).


Are you proud of yourself?
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on April 08, 2020, 07:31:06 AM
Be nice.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 08, 2020, 07:41:58 AM
Be nice.

Awwww Dad!  It was his fault (https://www.livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php?topic=53732.msg91160#msg91160). 

 I've been framed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iTR28UKgy4)


If I am any nicer he will get diabetes.


Oh okay.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 08, 2020, 08:13:47 AM
Would you two good brothers of Living In The Philippines like a set of 16oz gloves or some black poly body bags....we're all on the same team here...stop expressing yer knowledge.

 8)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 12, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
Feel better? 

I'm comfortable with being the vehicle of your ECQ stress relief.  Glad to be of service ......  Though I notice your response lacked the testicular fortitude ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_4jrMwvZ2A[/url]) to address me directly.

I would remind you that we now have two more weeks to go.  This ECQ has already been extended once.  It is not unreasonable to think that it might be extended again, or even indefinitely.  So pace yourself.


You sure tore Boris a new one.  And by extension me ([url]http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html[/url]).  Good for you.  It s_cks to be me.

Thanks for doing the research.  I do appreciate it.

But does calling into question one supporting factoid in a conversation invalidate the entire talk?

Which you never actually discussed.  Even after I presented you with the opportunity to .... multiple times. 

Why don't you want to discuss those ideas?  Why the tunnel vision emphasis on Boris?  Why the avoidance of my main topic?


My point is, (for the fourth time).

This pandemic continues to spread rapidly, and it has the potential to kill.

Reducing that potential has shut down the entire global economy, resulting in a wide range of catastrophic consequences.

That economic damage is done.  Lifestyles as we have known them have now changed.

Optimism is not enough.   It's going to take action.

So,  you can debate the details ad nauseum, (as you so clearly evidenced),  but I am taking action in my life and my community.  I suggest you do the same.


I believe that you focused on what ever detail you could exploit.  And repeatedly avoided the concepts you could not.


You built a Straw Man ([url]https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/#strawman[/url]).  Then knocked it down ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liPSTWdYiKs[/url]).


Are you proud of yourself?


I am addressing this post to user lost_in_samoa. I wrote that previous message as a warning to the other users in this thread to avoid listening to your outrageous claims. It's not guilt by association if you believed Boris. If I called you anti-American or pro-Russian because Boris was, then that would fit into your claim. But I pointed out that you believed him and was showing that your trust in his claims is not credible. You're also trying to use the Ad hominem tu quoque (personal attack) logical fallacy on me. Boom! It's not working. If you have sensible claims or things you want to discuss, I would be happy to discuss them.

Let's look at a summary of what you've written in this thread. There is a lot of rambling or just general information presented by you. Did you ever ask a question to other users about what they thought about your ideas? To me, it looks like you've just said that you're going to do one thing because the economy is going downhill, and each person should do as they see fit. Where was the invitation by you for feedback about what you posted?

Yes, the economy is going to suffer for awhile. Maybe nobody is saying something because they all agree with it. It's like me stating the sky is blue and then wondering why nobody is talking about it. What type of feedback are you looking for? 

first post
Your family is locked down in different cities due to the virus.

second post
You have a distorted view of the world and you posted an article from Vice Admiral James Stockdale.

third post
You posted a link to a video.

fourth post
You said, "Are you talking to me?"

fifth post
You said it doesn't matter what you do because the worldwide economy is impacted. You made a claim about 7 million people dying. You're going to grow tomatoes.

sixth post
You said, "Please tell me your joking."

seventh post
You provided two quotes about history and said you can turn manure into something.

eighth post
You said the virus is not the issue and everyone should do as they see fit.

ninth post
Great Depression information.
 
tenth post
You said the economy is going to be impacted in a bad way.

eleventh post
reply to Peter

twelfth post
link to a book

Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 12, 2020, 12:17:58 AM



At least I knew the Great Depression occurred.   
Nope! Everyone knew it occurred. But not everyone knows what you're talking about when you link 7 million deaths to it. There were 2 users that replied and said they had no idea what you were talking about.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 13, 2020, 05:48:35 AM
Everyone knew it occurred.

Sorry for the delay.  Responding to you ranks lower than celebrating Easter with my family.  Apologies.

Forum Poll.  Should I continue this or not?  If y'all want, I will.  You don't, I won't. 

No skin off-n my neck either way.

Admins? do you want to do this in public?

Move the thread to the dark side and give access to those affected?   So as to not further disturb the Wa?
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on April 13, 2020, 06:28:49 AM
OK this back and forth has now strayed way off topic. The back and forth fighting ends now. If I have to intervene again, I will lock this topic. I asked you all earlier to be nice. Now I'm telling you. This is Resurrection Day. BE NICE!
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 13, 2020, 08:42:56 AM
Come on you good brothers....I'm throwing in the towel. 8)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: iamjames on April 15, 2020, 05:40:07 AM
So. To get back on topic and escape from the childish trumplike obfuscation, fake news, insulting and throwing tantrums like a spoiled 5 year old brat ..... 
 Duterte just announced that the shutdown will end when the cure is found!!!!   
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 17, 2020, 08:16:32 AM
Rody will fix it..... "Shoot Them All" (More Lead Less Said)  you don't have enough ammo Doodoo Turd…….. aw shucks the old smart of the barangays gonna stand up ...I'm gonna get censored again.
Then again Chino has the fix for all of the Isles of PI...... fried Rat instead of Bat.
 
l
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Hank on April 17, 2020, 09:05:03 PM

Perhaps of interest, GMA 7 will air a documentary on what it's like being a COVID-19 patient this Saturday (tomorrow) at 4.05pm

(https://preview.redd.it/eg0a6wrm9at41.jpg?width=569&auto=webp&s=f6178b5da7a8fe490832faa3648bf696dd31fcda)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: fred on April 17, 2020, 09:06:04 PM
So. To get back on topic and escape from the childish trumplike obfuscation, fake news, insulting and throwing tantrums like a spoiled 5 year old brat ..... 
 Duterte just announced that the shutdown will end when the cure is found!!!!

I saw that story a few days ago and thought about how crazy that statement was...Then I hear that the UK Gov. doctors are making similar statements.. Absolute madness..Almost like they have been reading from the same script.
Now we are hearing about China pushing on with Human vaccine trials... Hmmm.


Britain will stay in lockdown until coronavirus vaccine is found, health minister says
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/uk-will-stay-in-lockdown-until-vaccine-is-found-health-minister-says-a4415561.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/uk-will-stay-in-lockdown-until-vaccine-is-found-health-minister-says-a4415561.html)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 19, 2020, 03:29:41 PM
I saw that story a few days ago and thought about how crazy that statement was...Then I hear that the UK Gov. doctors are making similar statements.. Absolute madness..Almost like they have been reading from the same script.
Now we are hearing about China pushing on with Human vaccine trials... Hmmm.


Britain will stay in lockdown until coronavirus vaccine is found, health minister says
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/uk-will-stay-in-lockdown-until-vaccine-is-found-health-minister-says-a4415561.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/uk-will-stay-in-lockdown-until-vaccine-is-found-health-minister-says-a4415561.html)
" Britain will stay in lockdown until coronavirus vaccine is found, health minister says. "

A disingenuous banner headline.
She did not say  "... will stay in lockdown until coronavirus vaccine is found   ... "

Halfway through the article she is correctly quoted  ....    She tweeted on Wednesday night: “There is only one way we can ‘exit’ full lockdown and that is when we have a vaccine. Until then, we need to find ways we can adapt society and strike a balance between the health of the nation and our economy.” ..... >

"Ways to adapt ...", are the operative words and that looks like the Government's overall plan. I cannot see any government, anywhere, sentencing all their citizens to an open-ended term in house arrest.

Although the Evening Standard, as do newspapers with similar ideological leanings, does like to "bash" the Govt. at every opportunity, even if it means taking one sentence and twisting it to sell their paper.

Stay safe all.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: fred on April 19, 2020, 08:47:04 PM
There are many ways to spin a script.. The Brits are like pure artists as they have much practice at lying and deceiving it`s people over many years..They have become very devious and cunning scum bags.
DU30 just shoots from the hip..Lets you have it right between the eyes!!
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 20, 2020, 02:40:51 AM
" Britain will stay in lockdown until coronavirus vaccine is found, health minister says. "

A disingenuous banner headline.
She did not say  "... will stay in lockdown until coronavirus vaccine is found   ... "

Halfway through the article she is correctly quoted  ....    She tweeted on Wednesday night: “There is only one way we can ‘exit’ full lockdown and that is when we have a vaccine. Until then, we need to find ways we can adapt society and strike a balance between the health of the nation and our economy.” ..... >

"Ways to adapt ...", are the operative words and that looks like the Government's overall plan. I cannot see any government, anywhere, sentencing all their citizens to an open-ended term in house arrest.

Although the Evening Standard, as do newspapers with similar ideological leanings, does like to "bash" the Govt. at every opportunity, even if it means taking one sentence and twisting it to sell their paper.

Stay safe all.

Peter

We all bash our Govs.....but I do believe their is not much other options than to prementioned distancing and adapting til we get the right meds and a vaccine out their. :(
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 20, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
There are many ways to spin a script.. The Brits are like pure artists as they have much practice at lying and deceiving it`s people over many years..They have become very devious and cunning scum bags.
DU30 just shoots from the hip..Lets you have it right between the eyes!!

Some could say the same for our country cousins and their leaders, with approx 18,000 "mistruths" as recorded by some US news outlets, at the last count. But I won't.

Stay safe.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: clarkee on April 20, 2020, 02:35:32 PM
Just curious Peter? Did someone strike a nerve?  LOL!!!!
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 20, 2020, 04:32:02 PM
Just curious Peter? Did someone strike a nerve?  LOL!!!!

Not at all.

The adage about 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones', came to mind.  :) :) :)

Stay safe everyone.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 20, 2020, 09:00:08 PM
So. To get back on topic and escape from the childish trumplike obfuscation, fake news, insulting and throwing tantrums like a spoiled 5 year old brat ..... 
 Duterte just announced that the shutdown will end when the cure is found!!!!

In your zeal to point the finger at fake news, you have spread it yourself. Look at the Duterte's translated quote:

“Kung meron na ‘yan, tapos makita kong ginagamit na ng tao, ili-lift ko. Tutal kung magkasakit kayo, may antibodies naman tayo mabili,” he said in a late-night briefing Monday.

[Translation: If a treatment is already being used, I will lift the quarantine since we can buy an antibody treatment if we get sick.]

The lockdown won't end when a cure is found. It's when it is available to purchase. There could be a delay between when it is found and when it is ready to be bought.

The PNP is punishing people for spreading fake news. I've already seen false information being posted around the Internet. Don't be one of them.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: fred on April 21, 2020, 09:07:40 AM
In your zeal to point the finger at fake news, you have spread it yourself. Look at the Duterte's translated quote:

“Kung meron na ‘yan, tapos makita kong ginagamit na ng tao, ili-lift ko. Tutal kung magkasakit kayo, may antibodies naman tayo mabili,” he said in a late-night briefing Monday.

[Translation: If a treatment is already being used, I will lift the quarantine since we can buy an antibody treatment if we get sick.]

The lockdown won't end when a cure is found. It's when it is available to purchase. There could be a delay between when it is found and when it is ready to be bought.

The PNP is punishing people for spreading fake news. I've already seen false information being posted around the Internet. Don't be one of them.

When they "discover" a vaccine it will be another 5 years at very least before they pump that s*** into me or my family.
You guys go first..I`ll see how you all are in 5 years and perhaps then I`ll reconsider..Or not.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 21, 2020, 01:08:49 PM
The PNP is punishing people for spreading fake news. I've already seen false information being posted around the Internet. Don't be one of them.

I'm curious.  What do you consider to be true news?

If you are gonna label something as false,  you must compare it to something that you believe to be true.

Please tell us what are the approved sources of information?
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 22, 2020, 01:51:30 AM
Not to change the great subject of the squabble here 8)

But as a kid I remember back in the early 60s when the TVs, with adjustable foil antennae's, 2 sometimes 3 channels when UHF would tune-up on a huge 12 inch grayish or black and white screen on a good reception day used to come on around 0630 and sign off about 1030.....you know occasionally waking up to the signed off blaring noise @ 0200 on couch on the weekend.
Those days consisted of the such as soap operas that either imitated life or vice versus, sci-fi movies, sports and then lastly the news.

News back then really posted only twice a day (early morning and usually the last thing before sign off) and sometimes reran on Sat/Suns. No fresh news most of the time until Monday...or you go catch a news paper to tie you over.

I can not remember the news being more than 30 minutes in length and that also included the unreliable weather reports.
Also I do not remember it being politically bias, PC correct or fake for that matter, I recall it reporting on what actually was seen, Tran scripted or sometimes actually video-taped. 

IMHOTodays all day corporate fed Mega-Media-Monsters are controlling every faucet of the whole dam world on every single issue, they got you at home, at your work desk, in your car....or just down strolling down the street being fed the s*** mobily.
It is hard to follow what is the truth these days when 2 different media mafis can display a Grey picture and one will tell you it is more white while the other will tell you it is more black.

I miss the gold ol days of Mr. Clean, Marlboro Cigarettes and when men were men on Wheaties and the news reported only what happened.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 22, 2020, 04:18:43 AM
I miss the gold ol days of Mr. Clean, Marlboro Cigarettes and when men were men on Wheaties and the news reported only what happened.

I hear you.

My Uncle Earl married a Japanese girl right after he DEROS'd outta Nam.  My Aunt Sae-ko. 

Earl grew up in the boot heel of Missoura during the Depression.  He, my mom and dad, the whole family that was alive during that debacle ..... had some very interesting memories about what it was like.  And who died during or because of it.

Saeko was a young girl during WWII.  We talked about the war a lot.  She was very forthcoming even though it pained her.

She told me the things she was taught at the time.  The news.  What "Joe" had done to other places.  What he was gonna do if he ever came on to the homeland.

For a long time I thought it was just ramblings.  Then I watched Nayirah testify on C-Span, and deployed because of it.

I don't begrudge y'all the comfort of nostalgia.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: clarkee on April 22, 2020, 05:47:42 AM
Not at all.

The adage about 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones', came to mind.  :) :) :)

Stay safe everyone.

Peter
Yes, I think that adage would apply to everyone!  My opinion only!
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on April 22, 2020, 07:08:34 AM
The lock down here is getting to me... we are all the same...maybe just look, think, eat & believe a little different....but all the same in the end.
Nostalgia can be as euphoric or horrific as the best existing drugs and/or a great history reminder for us old folks to remember to not repeat the same Ol F****ed Up Sh*t.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: fred on April 22, 2020, 03:49:32 PM
Cebu`s enhanced lock down is now until MAY 30.
 :o
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 22, 2020, 06:12:58 PM
The lock down here is getting to me... we are all the same...maybe just look, think, eat & believe a little different....but all the same in the end.
Nostalgia can be as euphoric or horrific as the best existing drugs and/or a great history reminder for us old folks to remember to not repeat the same Ol F****ed Up Sh*t.
I know it's a community to community thing, but what's going on where you're at?

We have had a lot of things lightened up on here where I am at.  Still can't cross the runway that divides our municipality, but apart from that, I can walk anywhere and everywhere I want now in the mornings with usually nothing more than a wave by the checkpoint workers.  And walking is probably the key, for whatever weird reason, but as long as I'm just walking, I really can get into any place I want.  Granted, there are still some "quarantine standards" that are being held up(only so many into the wet market at a time and they are forced to wait in a line, spaced out, and such) for the most part, I can enter any grocery store I walk to with no issue.  Now, most grocery stores no longer carry produce or meats.  Just he processed goods that allows them to not need to regulate their customers as much.  But, I'm finding that most of us walkers are free to pretty much go where we want when we want.  I haven't even worn a "pass" the last few days.

I still get a kick out of the wet market though.  And that is the one thing that is really visible when it comes to the "quarantine effects".  There is now a large que line area setup and all of Tina's workers are doing more work every day now than they ever did in a week prior.  They are spread out and in charge of those people in the line near them to keep 3 feet apart(that's what is required here at least, not the 6' that my family is been asked to keep apart in the USA).  Only so many are allowed in at a time.  And as of this Friday, the total amount of sellers will be cut in half, and they'll be showing up on alternating days.

I know that other parts are still under a much heavier thumb.  Here we've only had one case show up, she was quarantined, she healed, and that was all last month.  Since then, nothing.  This makes is a little easier I think to get out and about.  Kill the "dog days" of quarantine if you will and allow us to go do stuff. 

As to the "walk" talk above.  If I want to go to the mall, I need that pass.  I need to have a reason(if I'm going with Tina or another person) and one of us must have the "special pass" on us that Tina got 4 of for her catering jobs the government hired her business to do.  And this goes also for any of the other stores.  For whatever reason, if you drive to the place rather than walk to it, their attitude seems to change.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Hank on April 22, 2020, 08:22:13 PM

Cebu`s enhanced lock down is now until MAY 30.  :o


Hey Fred .. whatever you do .. don't be looking at the inside of Cebu City Jail :o

Quote:

Philippine Emergency Alerts - PEA
https://twitter.com/AlertsPea
@AlertsPea  5 hours ago

JUST IN: Mayor Edgardo Labella announces 139 new cases of COVID-19 in Cebu City today, bringing the total number of cases to 312.

Cebu City Jail - 123
Labangon - 9
Barrio Luz - 3
C. Padilla - 1
Kasambagan - 1
Inayawan - 1
CCHO - 1

#COVID19PH #CebuCity
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: fred on April 24, 2020, 10:50:03 AM
Hey Fred .. whatever you do .. don't be looking at the inside of Cebu City Jail :o

Quote:

Philippine Emergency Alerts - PEA
https://twitter.com/AlertsPea
@AlertsPea  5 hours ago

JUST IN: Mayor Edgardo Labella announces 139 new cases of COVID-19 in Cebu City today, bringing the total number of cases to 312.

Cebu City Jail - 123
Labangon - 9
Barrio Luz - 3
C. Padilla - 1
Kasambagan - 1
Inayawan - 1
CCHO - 1

#COVID19PH #CebuCity

I`ll be good..Promise!

Might start smoking again though for a month or two..

A study at Paris's Pitie-Salpetriere hospital suggests a substance in tobacco, thought to be nicotine, was preventing smokers contracting coronavirus.

 

Quote
Those leading the study stressed they did not advise people to start smoking, with scientists pointing out it kills half of those who do so regularly - claiming around 75,000 deaths each year in France.

But they say they want to learn more after questioning 480 patients who tested positive for the virus. A total of 350 had to be treated in hospital while the rest with less serious symptoms were sent home.

Of those needing hospital treatment, whose median age was 65, just 4.4% were regular smokers. Only 5.3% of those allowed home - who had a median age of 44 - 5.3% reported they smoked.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nicotine-patches-to-be-tested-on-patients-after-study-suggests-smokers-less-likely-to-catch-covid-19-11977460?fbclid=IwAR3N4DN6T7dzG9TfiaznzpLfnBBUicmOkbvJ_KkonmanKJ75ZxcTsq8wzGg
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 24, 2020, 04:28:53 PM
Metro Manila will extend the lockdown until May 15th.


Presidential Spokesman Harry Roque read out the government taskforce's decision in a taped public address aired on Friday.

"The decision regarding the ECQ when May 1, 2020 comes: maintain the ECQ for NCR, Region III, Region VI-A, and all other areas where the threat of COVID-19 is still great, until May 15," said Roque in Filipino.

Other areas are listed here:                     
https://www.rappler.com/nation/258496-metro-manila-calabarzon-bulacan-to-remain-on-lockdown (https://www.rappler.com/nation/258496-metro-manila-calabarzon-bulacan-to-remain-on-lockdown)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on April 24, 2020, 06:59:36 PM
The article is incorrect it is  Region IV-A not VI-A.

Chuck

Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on April 25, 2020, 02:18:09 AM
The article is incorrect it is  Region IV-A not VI-A.

Chuck
Good to hear. I live in Region VI.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 25, 2020, 06:35:07 AM
The lock down here is getting to me...

Maybe this will help a little

https://videos.whatfinger.com/category/humor/
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 25, 2020, 12:19:00 PM
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/coronavirus-antibody-test-santa-clara-los-angeles-stanford (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/coronavirus-antibody-test-santa-clara-los-angeles-stanford)
So, per studies done by USC and Stanford, there appears to be a LOT more people being infected than previously believed. 
Keep in mind, a good portion of these studies were done in LA where the facist mayor is forcing lock down with a fever not seen except rarely in the USA.  Throwing dirt in skate parks and using drones to force people to stay indoors and more.  Going as far as to state clear on a TV interview that those not complying will be hunted down.  Gestapo dreaming much? 
Yet, despite this massive lockdown/quarantine, testing is showing about a 5% infection rate.  That's over 300K in LA alone. 
At the same time, there are 8 states that have refused lockdowns in the USA.  The infection rates are at the same rate as their neighboring states.  Sweden has refused to lockdown, yet per the testing they are doing better than their lockdown neighboring countries.
Is a lockdown really the best way.  Forcing people indoors into cooler/drier climates that form a "petri dish" setup for the virus to spread in while the latest science gives a lot of evidence/proof that hotter, more humid environments in direct solar environments are the safest for humans and most deadly places for the virus. 
I get it, this is a new thing. I get it, we are all learning as we go through this.  And to social distancing is doing good and should still be continued.  But with all the latest FACTS and SCIENCE....maybe lock downs are not the best answer.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Peter on April 25, 2020, 01:29:08 PM
JoeLP.

TTQ

Mass Testing of everyone with no exceptions.
Trace contacts of those who are infected or are asymptomatic carriers.
Quarantine infected/asymtomatic persons for treatment or observation.

There is no other way to slow down, or even isolate, the spread in communities.

Stay safe everyone.

Peter
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 25, 2020, 02:11:13 PM
But with all the latest FACTS and SCIENCE....maybe lock downs are not the best answer.

Are coronavirus lockdowns working? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuuA0azQRGQ)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 25, 2020, 11:56:38 PM
Are coronavirus lockdowns working? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuuA0azQRGQ)
he put it in a much better fashion than i did, but either he didn't have the information or this was before it came out, but he's missing the latest studies that show that the warmer it is, the more humidity their is, and the more direct solar contact(being in sunlight) that there is, how quickly the virus dies. talking 2 minutes or less.  This is some important information to add.
Again, lock downs are failing.  The study by stanford and usc prove that.  So people thinking lockdowns are working are not reading the available reality.  I think as more and more information comes out, the more and more we'll find that the lockdowns didn't do much, if any good.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 26, 2020, 06:06:04 AM
I think as more and more information comes out, the more and more we'll find that the lockdowns didn't do much, if any good.

We can go all into the details of how this pathogen came to exist.  How it evolved, or was created.

We can exhume all of the info on how it propagated. Or was cultured globally.

We can examine the reaction, over reaction, or apathy  till the moon turns blue.

And those fetishist's  who favor endless examination of leaf's over viewing the whole ecology will certainly chime in.



I can't help but wonder if the idea of an individual having rights outside of authority is not the real victim.   The concept of inalienable.

What is really being damaged?

Human beings  OR the truths first enumerated by the Magna Carta,  then institutionalized by the Constitution.



Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 26, 2020, 12:46:12 PM
The article is incorrect it is  Region IV-A not VI-A.

Chuck
Both regions are under lockdown.
Region IV-A is Calabarzon. It is under lockdown.
Region VI-A is Western Visayas. It is also under lockdown.

Western Visayas (including Antique) is a high-risk area. It is under lockdown until May 15. The article is correct.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on April 26, 2020, 01:12:57 PM
Both regions are under lockdown.
Region IV-A is Calabarzon. It is under lockdown.
Region VI-A is Western Visayas. It is also under lockdown.

Western Visayas (including Antique) is a high-risk area. It is under lockdown until May 15. The article is correct.

Have to disagree since there is no Region VI-A!  There is a Region VI which is Western Visayas.


https://plos.figshare.com/articles/_Map_of_the_Philippines_showing_the_administrative_17_regions_19_20_/1230817

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 26, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
Have to disagree since there is no Region VI-A!  There is a Region VI which is Western Visayas.


[url]https://plos.figshare.com/articles/_Map_of_the_Philippines_showing_the_administrative_17_regions_19_20_/1230817[/url] ([url]https://plos.figshare.com/articles/_Map_of_the_Philippines_showing_the_administrative_17_regions_19_20_/1230817[/url])

Chuck

I reached out to the author of that article for clarification on the quote she used.

Various Philippine government organizations use the subset Region VI-A. It is possible that they all got them wrong! It's also possible that the government officials use terms for regions that we are not aware of. They could have written 6A in these posts but really intended it to be 4A. But here they are in official documents:


https://www.treasury.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/SAGF-Jan-to-Mar-2018.pdf (https://www.treasury.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/SAGF-Jan-to-Mar-2018.pdf)
REVENUE REGION VI-A - ILOILO

http://www.bsp.gov.ph/downloads/Publications/2007/RED_2Sem2007.pdf (http://www.bsp.gov.ph/downloads/Publications/2007/RED_2Sem2007.pdf)
Second Semester ... Regions VI-A, CARAGA and ARMM at 2.8 percent.

https://www.ncda.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/EDs-Report-2013-3rd-quarter.pdf (https://www.ncda.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/EDs-Report-2013-3rd-quarter.pdf)
Advocacy in 11 regions (Regions I, II,III, VI-A, VII, X, XI, XII, CARAGA, CAR and NCR)

http://www.coastguard.gov.ph/index.php/11-news/268-coast-guard-district-southern-tagalog-strengthens-force-with-new-aluminum-boats (http://www.coastguard.gov.ph/index.php/11-news/268-coast-guard-district-southern-tagalog-strengthens-force-with-new-aluminum-boats)
...cities and municipalities in Region VI-A and part of Region IV-B.

http://www.nwrb.gov.ph/images/Publications/IWRM_Pampanga_River_Basin.pdf (http://www.nwrb.gov.ph/images/Publications/IWRM_Pampanga_River_Basin.pdf)
third highest value next to NCR and Region VI-A among the 17 regions in the
Philippines

http://erdb.denr.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/e_v4n4.pdf (http://erdb.denr.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/e_v4n4.pdf)
 Ms. Rosalia Maraňa, Region VI-A;

https://depedcalabarzon.ph/issuances-3/ (https://depedcalabarzon.ph/issuances-3/)
s.2017, Regional Memorandum, REGION VI-A PARTICIPANTS TO THE ...

https://www.foi.gov.ph/requests/aglzfmVmb2ktcGhyIgsSB0NvbnRlbnQiFURFTlJFUkRCLTExODU4MDQ1OTg0MAw (https://www.foi.gov.ph/requests/aglzfmVmb2ktcGhyIgsSB0NvbnRlbnQiFURFTlJFUkRCLTExODU4MDQ1OTg0MAw)
PCA Region VI-A.


Yes, Region VI is Western Visayas. I thought they were saying Antique was a section of Region 6 ("A" being a group of provinces or districts). I'll update you to what the author says.

The main point is that Calabarzon and Western Visayas are under lockdown.

Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on April 26, 2020, 04:38:25 PM
I have been in the Philippines 10 years and dealt with many government offices.  It is hard to find two offices or two people in an office that interpret the law/rule the same way at times. So could they have meant IV-A versus VI-A is a definite, YES!  There is no Region VI-A, PERIOD! To use a subset for accounting or other actions by an agency does not change the names or number of official Regions in the Philippines.

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 26, 2020, 08:52:46 PM


I can't help but wonder if the idea of an individual having rights outside of authority is not the real victim.   The concept of inalienable.

What is really being damaged?

Human beings  OR the truths first enumerated by the Magna Carta,  then institutionalized by the Constitution.
This has been very much in my mind.  Looks like the attorney general(Barr) will side with the people against the states in any cases where such matters go into a legal battle and he feels the states/cities have overstepped.  I almost hope that happens.  With the majority constitutional judges that now sit on the supreme court, would love to see the over reaching fascists get taken down a few rungs. 

The state I'm from had a bitch in the governor seat that was outlawing people from being allowed to go to the dentist, but allowing them to go get and abortion.  Screw her on "it's about health" crap she shoves.  She allowed the people to get a flag at home depot, but not seeds to grow a garden. 
She allows people to go out and run/exercise but not fish in a boat with a motor.
She's class one example of an over reaching fascist.  Granted, she's hurting so badly in the polls right now she's backed off on some of her s***, but now threw up more.  Power hungry over reaching idiots.  Would love to see some of them get "spanked" by the supreme court.  Don't care who the governor is or what party they are from.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on April 27, 2020, 07:32:40 AM
The state I'm from had a bitch in the governor seat that was outlawing people from being allowed to go to the dentist, but allowing them to go get and abortion.  Screw her on "it's about health" crap she shoves.  She allowed the people to get a flag at home depot, but not seeds to grow a garden. 
She allows people to go out and run/exercise but not fish in a boat with a motor.
She's class one example of an over reaching fascist.  Granted, she's hurting so badly in the polls right now she's backed off on some of her s***, but now threw up more.  Power hungry over reaching idiots.  Would love to see some of them get "spanked" by the supreme court.  Don't care who the governor is or what party they are from.
Sounds like America's Sweetheart Gretchen Whitmer of MI.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 27, 2020, 07:42:53 AM
Sounds like America's Sweetheart Gretchen Whitmer of MI.
Yeah, you got it.  I find it interesting that she decided to back off on a lot of her very unamerican, fascist restrictions real shortly after Barr decided to make a statement on which side the DOJ will fall if any legal action is taken between the state and the people.  Not to mention, there are now legal cases against her for the actions.  Wonder how that'll play out.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: JoeLP on April 27, 2020, 12:30:38 PM
2 California MD's who own a chain of urgent care clinics answers questions on Covid 19.

I think, again, that the more and more that comes out and is made known, the more and more we'll see how wrong the lock down was.  The more and more we'll find that MANY more people than is being made known have contracted covid19 and had very little to no reaction to it.  That while it is dangerous(like the flu) the only difference is we don't have a vaccine for it.  Thank god our ancestors didn't shut down every flu season before vaccines were created for it.  Their heads were screwed on straight.

I could be wrong, but as more and more is made known and more and more doctors speak out, the more and more is shown about the reality of what covid 19 really is that how much of a power grab was made by some politicians who used covid 19 as an excuse to make those power grabs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5GDPCUUBEE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5GDPCUUBEE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5GDPCUUBEE
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: lost_in_samoa on April 27, 2020, 01:06:08 PM
TY

how much of a power grab was made

Here is a little background on the folks who recommended lockdown.  Each one is a long listen.

Thomas Paine Podcast

Ep. 17 -- WE ARE ALL BEING PLAYED (https://thomas-paine.captivate.fm/episode/ep-17-we-are-all-being-played-top-feds-spill-the-beans-on-real-coronavirus-scandal-cdc-director-and-white-house-doc-birx-probed-by-dod-for-fabricating-hiv-aids-vaccine-clinical-trials)

Ep. 18 -- Robert "Bobby" Kennedy Jr.  (https://thomas-paine.captivate.fm/episode/ep-18-robert-bobby-kennedy-jr-joins-the-podcast-and-drops-absolute-bombshells-on-bill-gates-dr-fauci-the-cdc-fda-govt-vaccine-kickbacks-and-the-list-goes-on-in-a-raucous-exclusive-sit-down-we-expose-dr-birxs-role-in-yet-another-fbi-scandal-linked-to-ga...)

Ep. 19 -- EXCLUSIVE: TOP Scientist & HIV/AIDS Research Pioneer Dr. Judy Mikovits (https://thomas-paine.captivate.fm/episode/ep-19-exclusive-top-scientist-hiv-aids-research-pioneer-dr-judy-mikovits-blows-whistle-on-dr-fauci-corrupt-dc-medical-cartel-disturbing-details-of-threats-intimidation-research-theft-tainted-vaccines-fraud-pay-to-play-greed-and-the-fbi-cover-up-of-it-a...)
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: User444 on April 28, 2020, 05:46:55 PM
I have been in the Philippines 10 years and dealt with many government offices.  It is hard to find two offices or two people in an office that interpret the law/rule the same way at times. So could they have meant IV-A versus VI-A is a definite, YES!  There is no Region VI-A, PERIOD! To use a subset for accounting or other actions by an agency does not change the names or number of official Regions in the Philippines.

Chuck
There's no disagreement that there are 17 official regions. But that doesn't mean that there can't be an unofficial title that's used by the government and understood by the citizens. In the past 20 years, the Philippines' government has created new regions and reorganized old regions. It's always changing. New titles are made and old ones are abolished. Western Visayays is organized in a unique way. Negros Island is divided. Just by looking at the way the government agencies refer to these regions and also looking at unofficial sites, like this sports webpage, it is clear that Region VI-A and VI-B are present in Western Visayas.


https://www.spin.ph/basketball/southwestern-university-san-jose-rcoletos-visayas-teams-nbtc-finals-a1373-20190314 (https://www.spin.ph/basketball/southwestern-university-san-jose-rcoletos-visayas-teams-nbtc-finals-a1373-20190314)  
VISAYAS QUALIFIERS: Sta. Clarita International School (Region VI-A), STI-West Negros University (Region VI-B),

Region VI-A - the island with Iloilo City
Region VI-B - the island with Bacolod City

I didn't come up with these titles. They have been used for years, and when they are used, people in the Philippines know what the titles mean.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: bigrod on April 28, 2020, 06:51:17 PM
There's no disagreement that there are 17 official regions. But that doesn't mean that there can't be an unofficial title that's used by the government and understood by the citizens. In the past 20 years, the Philippines' government has created new regions and reorganized old regions. It's always changing. New titles are made and old ones are abolished. Western Visayays is organized in a unique way. Negros Island is divided. Just by looking at the way the government agencies refer to these regions and also looking at unofficial sites, like this sports webpage, it is clear that Region VI-A and VI-B are present in Western Visayas.


https://www.spin.ph/basketball/southwestern-university-san-jose-rcoletos-visayas-teams-nbtc-finals-a1373-20190314 (https://www.spin.ph/basketball/southwestern-university-san-jose-rcoletos-visayas-teams-nbtc-finals-a1373-20190314) 
VISAYAS QUALIFIERS: Sta. Clarita International School (Region VI-A), STI-West Negros University (Region VI-B),

Region VI-A - the island with Iloilo City
Region VI-B - the island with Bacolod City

I didn't come up with these titles. They have been used for years, and when they are used, people in the Philippines know what the titles mean.

So there are 17 Regions, PERIOD!  That being said there can not be a Region VI-A and VI-B or there would be 18. As I stated earlier "To use a subset for accounting or other actions by an agency does not change the names or number of official Regions in the Philippines". Same applies to a sports league.

Chuck
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Steve & Myrlita on April 28, 2020, 07:28:54 PM
Just as a lot of folks mistake Dumaguete (Negros Oriental) as Reg 6. It's not. It's part of Cebu Reg 7. Iloilo & Negros Occidental are Reg 6.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Bob Johnson on May 18, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Well, Phil news shows "modified enhanced" lockdown thing easing up, with some stores still closed. vlogs from this weekend May 16-17, show a lot of people out, but no jeepneys. We hear one can't travel to provinces, or quarantine may be in effect if doing so. At this point we are worried--our trip is set for June 16, and will be in Manila and travel to Abra province. Any restrictions will kill the trip for us (6 weeks). The airline may allow re-booking for later according to Expedia. Anyone have any other news regarding lockdowns and quarantines?
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: mikbal on May 21, 2020, 12:08:12 AM
I dont know about Expedia but when our flights were cancelled, EVA gave us a full refund while American Airlines (San Antonio to LAX) would only give us a voucher for use at a later time.

Mike
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Bob Johnson on May 22, 2020, 01:54:25 AM
Refund or voucher will work, as we are definitely going. Air fares will probably be higher later, though. We had three families from the States and I don't know how many in the PI all coordinated for this get-together, so this is really inconvenient.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: Bob Johnson on May 26, 2020, 08:56:46 PM
Guess it's a moot point now. We, and the three other families from the US have canceled. Looking at 2021 now.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: mikbal on May 28, 2020, 07:03:51 AM
Our tenative plan also. Depending on the circumstances maybe in the April/May timeframe again.
Title: Re: Manila Lockdown
Post by: MotorSarge on May 28, 2020, 07:41:50 AM
Keep up with the news &  play it one day at a time.