Author Topic: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]  (Read 9559 times)

Offline GregW

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2008, 10:57:33 AM »
Yes, redrum, you cannot lease from your wife as under RP law you are considered as one entity.  Hence, you cannot lease from yourself.  The fact that you did so before you actually married her is an interesting one but one that I\'m afraid won\'t stand up in an RP court. 

As for inheriting, here\'s a court case that could shed some light on the subject;

Thus as a rule, only a Filipino citizen can acquire private lands in the Philippines. The only instances when a foreigner can acquire private lands in the Philippines are by hereditary succession and if he was formerly a natural-born Filipino citizen who lost his Philippine citizenship.

http://www.supremecourt.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2000/feb2000/132964.htm

Many contend that they can inherit but I believe they are only deluding themselves.  Only RP citizens can own land.  That\'s it.

As far as becoming naturalized, that is true.  However you\'re realistically looking at a minimum of 8 years before that can happen.  Five years residency in RP if married to a citizen (10 if not) and then reports show a minimum 3 year process to actually achieve it.  It\'s an option but one that you need to move on if you want to go that route.

Ako si Goyo.   Amerikano akong lawas pero Bisaya akong kasing-kasing

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2008, 11:37:42 AM »
       I still think it would be a boon to the government program to make the RP a retiree destination if they would just allow a foreigner to own a single residential property for what, in Texas at least, is referred to in law as a homestead. Most of the expats I know don\'t want to build a factory. They just want to own their own home.

Offline imtheredrum

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2008, 11:49:59 AM »
\"Many contend that they can inherit but I believe they are only deluding themselves.  Only RP citizens can own land.  That\'s it.\"   Quote from Greg...

Absolutely correct...  if the Filipino spouse dies, the Govt. will force the foreigner to sell the property in what is considered a \"reasonable amount of time\", or the property goes to the to the heirs in the will or probated.  If it is a divorce action or break up with the G/F then they foreigner has not a leg to stand on and will loose all... no other outcome! Save only if he was naturalized and becomes a citizen prior to the death.

I agree with Randy, it would be a boom and a good influx of more dollars to the PI for retiring foreigner\'s to own single family home and less that say 2000 Sm of property.
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Offline Manila Cockney

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2008, 01:10:35 PM »
Yes, redrum, you cannot lease from your wife as under RP law you are considered as one entity.  Hence, you cannot lease from yourself.  The fact that you did so before you actually married her is an interesting one but one that I\'m afraid won\'t stand up in an RP court. 

As for inheriting, here\'s a court case that could shed some light on the subject;

Thus as a rule, only a Filipino citizen can acquire private lands in the Philippines. The only instances when a foreigner can acquire private lands in the Philippines are by hereditary succession and if he was formerly a natural-born Filipino citizen who lost his Philippine citizenship.

http://www.supremecourt.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2000/feb2000/132964.htm

Many contend that they can inherit but I believe they are only deluding themselves.  Only RP citizens can own land.  That\'s it.

As far as becoming naturalized, that is true.  However you\'re realistically looking at a minimum of 8 years before that can happen.  Five years residency in RP if married to a citizen (10 if not) and then reports show a minimum 3 year process to actually achieve it.  It\'s an option but one that you need to move on if you want to go that route.




If you read the law which is quoted in the link it does not say \"and\" if he was a natural born Filipino citizen.

The law is very clear and states the following 

Art 12 Sec. 7. Save in cases of hereditary succession, no private lands shall be transferred or conveyed except to individuals, corporations, or associations qualified to acquire or hold lands of the public domain.

If you want to find out about inheritance laws check out this topic.

http://livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php/topic,334.0.html

Offline Manila Cockney

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2008, 01:17:39 PM »
\"Many contend that they can inherit but I believe they are only deluding themselves.  Only RP citizens can own land.  That\'s it.\"   Quote from Greg...

Absolutely correct...  if the Filipino spouse dies, the Govt. will force the foreigner to sell the property in what is considered a \"reasonable amount of time\", or the property goes to the to the heirs in the will or probated.  If it is a divorce action or break up with the G/F then they foreigner has not a leg to stand on and will loose all... no other outcome! Save only if he was naturalized and becomes a citizen prior to the death.

I agree with Randy, it would be a boom and a good influx of more dollars to the PI for retiring foreigner\'s to own single family home and less that say 2000 Sm of property.

See my previous post about the law. A foreigner can own land through hereditary succession.  Can you quote anywhere in the law or SC case where a foreigner has to sell the property within a reasonable time after inheriting it?

A split up is different because even if you bought the land and put in somebody else name, you do not own it or never have done. 

Offline imtheredrum

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2008, 02:06:30 AM »
Yes, redrum, you cannot lease from your wife as under RP law you are considered as one entity.  Hence, you cannot lease from yourself.  The fact that you did so before you actually married her is an interesting one but one that I\'m afraid won\'t stand up in an RP court. 

As for inheriting, here\'s a court case that could shed some light on the subject;

Thus as a rule, only a Filipino citizen can acquire private lands in the Philippines. The only instances when a foreigner can acquire private lands in the Philippines are by hereditary succession and if he was formerly a natural-born Filipino citizen who lost his Philippine citizenship.

http://www.supremecourt.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2000/feb2000/132964.htm

Many contend that they can inherit but I believe they are only deluding themselves.  Only RP citizens can own land.  That\'s it.

As far as becoming naturalized, that is true.  However you\'re realistically looking at a minimum of 8 years before that can happen.  Five years residency in RP if married to a citizen (10 if not) and then reports show a minimum 3 year process to actually achieve it.  It\'s an option but one that you need to move on if you want to go that route.




If you read the law which is quoted in the link it does not say \"and\" if he was a natural born Filipino citizen.

The law is very clear and states the following 

Art 12 Sec. 7. Save in cases of hereditary succession, no private lands shall be transferred or conveyed except to individuals, corporations, or associations qualified to acquire or hold lands of the public domain.

If you want to find out about inheritance laws check out this topic.

http://livinginthephilippines.com/forum/index.php/topic,334.0.html


That was a good read.... now a copy and paste from the constituion:

Section 7. Save in cases of hereditary succession, no private lands shall be transferred or conveyed except to individuals, corporations, or associations qualified to acquire or hold lands of the public domain.

Section 8. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 7 of this Article, a natural-born citizen of the Philippines who has lost his Philippine citizenship may be a transferee of private lands, subject to limitations provided by law.

Now... a copy and paste from the laws that were written based on the constitution:

Art. 3.  Ignorance of the law excuses no one from compliance therewith. (2)

Title II. - CITIZENSHIP AND DOMICILE
 
Art. 48. The following are citizens of the Philippines:
(1) Those who were citizens of the Philippines at the time of the adoption of the Constitution of the Philippines;
(2) Those born in the Philippines of foreign parents who, before the adoption of said Constitution, had been elected to public office in the Philippines;

(3) Those whose fathers are citizens of the Philippines;

(4) Those whose mothers are citizens of the Philippines and, upon reaching the age of majority, elect Philippine citizenship;

(5) Those who are naturalized in accordance with law. (n)

Art. 49. Naturalization and the loss and reacquisition of citizenship of the Philippines are governed by special laws. (n)

CHAPTER 3
QUIETING OF TITLE (n)
 
Art. 476. Whenever there is a cloud on title to real property or any interest therein, by reason of any instrument, record, claim, encumbrance or proceeding which is apparently valid or effective but is in truth and in fact invalid, ineffective, voidable, or unenforceable, and may be prejudicial to said title, an action may be brought to remove such cloud or to quiet the title.

Art. 481. The procedure for the quieting of title or the removal of a cloud therefrom shall be governed by such rules of court as the Supreme Court shall promulgated.

CHAPTER 2
TESTAMENTARY SUCCESSION

SUBSECTION 3. - Forms of Wills
Art. 810. A person may execute a holographic will which must be entirely written, dated, and signed by the hand of the testator himself. It is subject to no other form, and may be made in or out of the Philippines, and need not be witnessed. (678, 688a)

Art. 811. In the probate of a holographic will, it shall be necessary that at least one witness who knows the handwriting and signature of the testator explicitly declare that the will and the signature are in the handwriting of the testator. If the will is contested, at least three of such witnesses shall be required.

Art. 812. In holographic wills, the dispositions of the testator written below his signature must be dated and signed by him in order to make them valid as testamentary dispositions. (n)

Art. 816. The will of an alien who is abroad produces effect in the Philippines if made with the formalities prescribed by the law of the place in which he resides, or according to the formalities observed in his country, or in conformity with those which this Code prescribes. (n)

Art. 817. A will made in the Philippines by a citizen or subject of another country, which is executed in accordance with the law of the country of which he is a citizen or subject, and which might be proved and allowed by the law of his own country, shall have the same effect as if executed according to the laws of the Philippines. (n)

Art. 830. No will shall be revoked except in the following cases:

(1) By implication of law

SUBSECTION 8. - Allowance and Disallowance of Wills
 
Art. 838. No will shall pass either real or personal property unless it is proved and allowed in accordance with the Rules of Court.

SUBSECTION 6. - The State
 
Art. 1011. In default of persons entitled to succeed in accordance with the provisions of the preceding Sections, the State shall inherit the whole estate. (956a)

Art. 1013. After the payment of debts and charges, the personal property shall be assigned to the municipality or city where the deceased last resided in the Philippines, and the real estate to the municipalities or cities, respectively, in which the same is situated.

Art. 1031. A testamentary provision in favor of a disqualified person, even though made under the guise of an onerous contract, or made through an intermediary, shall be void. (755)

Foreign Nationals can only own Philippine Real Estate through the purchase of Condominium Units or Townhouses constituted under the Condominium principle with Condominium Certificates of Title

In the Philippines, Foreign Nationals can only buy condominium units under Republic Act 4726, otherwise known as the Condominium Act. The law provides that no condominium unit can be sold without at the same time selling the corresponding amount of rights, shares or other interests in the condominium management body (The Condominium Corporation), and no one can buy shares in a condominium corporation without at the same time buying a condominium unit. Now the Condominium Act of the Philippines, R.A. 4726, expressly allows foreigners to acquire condominium units and shares in condominium corporations up to not more than 40 % of the total and outstanding capital stock of a Filipino owned or controlled corporation


• Right To Own Philippine Real Property

Under the pertinent provisions of the Philippine Constitution only Filipino citizens and corporations or partnerships at least 60% Philippine owned are entitled to acquire LAND in the Philippines. As an exception to this rule, foreign acquisition of Philippine real estate is allowed in the following cases. Acquisition before the 1935 constitution. Acquisition thru hereditary succession if the foreign national is a legal heir. Purchase of not more than 40% interest as a whole in a condominium project. Purchase by a former natural born Filipino citizen subject to the limitations prescribed by law. A Filipino who is married to an alien retains their Philippine citizenship, unless by their act or omission they are deemed to have renounced their Philippine citizenship. [Please see notes on the Philippine Dual Citizenship Law].

• Foreign Ownership as a Philippine Corporation

Another way for foreign nationals to invest in Philippine real estate is for the Foreign national or foreign corporation to create a Philippine corporation to hold title. This allows the Philippine corporation of a foreign national or foreign corporation less investment risk and more control of their Philippine real estate investment, and other Philippine investment assets. Foreign nationals, and corporations may 100% own a Philippine condominium or town home.

For private land, residential home with land lot and or commercial building with land lot ownership the foreign national and or corporation forms a Philippine Corporation to take ownership of the property. On paper, a Philippine Corporation by Philippine law will be a maximum of 40% foreign owned, and a minimum of 60% Filipino owned with a minimum of five incorporators. The Philippine corporation by law shall have a main bank account tied to it before and upon incorporation. A foreign national may be the sole person on the Philippine corporation bank account once after the Philippine corporation has been created and power of attorney has been handed over to the foreign investor at the time of incorporation. Thus allowing the foreign national total control over the funds derived and paid out from the Philippine Corporation and from the income or sale of the asset or real estate property.

• New Dual Citizenship Laws Affecting Property Ownership

Dual citizenship is now newly available under Philippine Law. Dual citizenship means having two citizenships and passports from two different countries. Former Philippine citizens born in the Philippines, but that have immigrated to another country and obtained citizenship of that country. A foreign spouse married to a Philippine citizen. Dual citizenship allows the citizenship holder full rights of possession of Philippine real estate property.

* Philippine\'s Embraces Dual Citizenship [September 19, 2003]

In a landmark bill, the Philippine Government enacted Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act. With this act, the decades-old ban on dual Philippine citizenship was thrown away. The Philippine Congress recognized that in today\'s world, Filipinos have dispersed around the world and have even taken on the nationality of their new home countries while maintaining their strong ties to the Filipino community, heritage and families.

Unfortunately, prior to this act, a Filipino who naturalized in another country, such as the U.S. lost Filipino citizenship. The Philippine Congress recognized that this seriously affected the unity of Filipinos overseas with those in the Philippines. It also had drastic consequences with prior Filipinos losing interest in investing in the Philippines.

The new act allows all prior Filipinos who lost their Philippine citizenship because they became citizens of another country to regain Philippine citizenship. It also allows Filipinos who want to naturalize in another country, like the United States for example, to keep their Philippine citizenship. Reacquiring and retaining citizenship allows dual national Filipinos to vote and run for elected office.

The children of Filipinos who reacquire citizenship are also affected. Those unmarried children, under the age of 18 will also be considered to be citizens of the Philippines. This includes legitimate, adopted, and illegitimate children.

The reacquisition of Philippine citizenship is not automatic. Filipinos who lost Philippine citizenship when they became citizens of anther country must swear an oath of allegiance. The oath is found in the text of the act, and in the coming months the Philippine Department of Justice will provide rules on the administration of the oath. One can envision that former Filipinos overseas need appear at their local Consulate to take oath and apply for Philippine passport.

The new act accepts back, with open arms, Filipinos who lost their citizenship. It embraces dual citizenship and recognizes that in today\'s day and age dual citizenship is a desirable factor for Filipinos who maintain their allegiance to their homeland.

• Foreigner Married to a Philippine Citizen

If holding title as an individual, a typical situation would be that a foreigner married to a Philippine citizen would hold title in the Philippine spouses name. The foreign spouse name cannot be on the property Title but can be on the contract to buy the property. As a foreign investor caution should be taken upon considering taking title to real estate in this manner.

• Condominium Residential Commercial Development Ownership Law

Presidential Decree No. 957, which regulates the sale of subdivision and condominium developments. The National Housing Authority has exclusive jurisdiction to regulate real estate trade and business, a function, which is presently exercised by the Housing and Land Use Regulatory Board (HLURB). Certain conditions are required before a license to sell condominium development units and or subdivision development lots and homes is issued to a Filipino or Foreign owned individual or corporation. The requirements include a certificate of registration, a performance bond, and an approval of the building plans and specifications.

Hereunder is a copy of the Supreme Court ruling and current jurisprudence relative to a Foreign National illegally claiming ownership of the land in the Philippines.

Can be read at the following link:http://pr-gb.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51249&Itemid=30



..                                \ \ \ | / / /
..                                  ( @ @~)
Jeff & Ritz  -----o00o-(. .)-o00o-----

Offline GregW

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2008, 10:49:11 AM »
Redrum and others.  This is just more incentive to be nice  to our inlaws.  Hopefully if the unforseen tragedy occurs and we find ourself in this position, the family will grant us to live there until our own end.  Could we hope for more?

Ako si Goyo.   Amerikano akong lawas pero Bisaya akong kasing-kasing

Offline imtheredrum

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2008, 11:05:20 AM »
So true... thank god we have them... I know I do and hope we all do... maybe in time... things will change to allow retiring foreigners to claim titles to their home... and on a good note the the exchange rate is back up a half again...  46.4849863254 get my daily updates from xe.com
..                                \ \ \ | / / /
..                                  ( @ @~)
Jeff & Ritz  -----o00o-(. .)-o00o-----

Offline Manila Cockney

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2008, 12:51:01 PM »

As for inheriting, here\'s a court case that could shed some light on the subject;


http://www.supremecourt.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2000/feb2000/132964.htm
Can be read at the following link:http://pr-gb.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51249&Itemid=30




The link should be put into perspective, it is written by real estate agents whose interest is selling condos to foreigners. While 99.9% of it is correct, I found one thing not correct it does have a bias to want you to buy a condo given by its tabloid headline. Many of these condo real estate agents bring up the case of Muller vs Muller. There was nothing suprising in this and this was a divorce case not an inheritance case, The Supreme Court statement of the case states the law:  \"Section 7, Article XII of the 1987 Constitution states: Save in cases of hereditary succession, no private lands shall be transferred or conveyed except to individuals, corporations, or associations qualified to acquire or hold lands of the public domain.\"

http://elibrary.supremecourt.gov.ph/decisions.php?doctype=Decisions%20/%20Signed%20Resolutions&docid=a45475a11ec72b843d74959b60fd7bd6464e34add8f72

The following is from  Philippine Government website

http://philconsulateny.home.mindspring.com/legal/land.htm

3. In the event of my death, can the property be transferred to my husband or children or both, who are all natural born American citizens?

Yes. Under Section 7, Article XII of the Philippine Constitution, foreigners can inherit land.

4. Are there limitations on hereditary succession?

No. There are no limitations on hereditary succession both with respect to citizenship and size of the property.

The supreme court case quoted in a previous post petitioner vs Guzman

http://www.supremecourt.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2000/feb2000/132964.htm

The spouse and son both American citizens were allowed to inherit the land, where the problem was at a later date the spouse decided to donate the land she had inherited to her son an American citizen. 

I have discussed this with 3 different lawyers all good friends of mine and partners in respectable legal firms in Makati and Manila. They all say the same that if my wife dies I would be allowed to own land though inheritance. 

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2008, 12:54:43 PM »
B-Ray my name and citizenship is on our deeds also I don\'t think it means much except it shows you and your wife are married. I bought land in 1986 and 1991 and 1998.

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 09:17:16 AM »
Granted, it doesn\'t say \"I\" own it too as a foreigner. What we were told since I signed also is, she can\'t sell it without me signing. How binding that is in this country is UNKNOWN! Maybe.........just a feel good situation?

I hope, I never have to find out! Let the change be and we all are home free! ;D
B-Ray

B-Ray my name and citizenship is on our deeds also I don\'t think it means much except it shows you and your wife are married. I bought land in 1986 and 1991 and 1998.

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2008, 09:51:56 AM »
The latest I\'ve read on the subject,

US financial meltdown gives House reason to push anew for charter change

 
Philstar.com - Thursday, October 2The US financial crisis gave the administration-dominated Philippine House of Representatives another argument to amend the 21-year-old constitution, by way of giving Americans and Filipino migrants the opportunity to transfer their investments here.

According to Speaker Prospero Nograles, now is the best time to \"lift equity restrictions\" on the prohibitive 60-40 constitutional provision that favors only local businessmen.

\"Now is the best opportunity for the government to also encourage US-based Filipinos to invest their dollar-denominated savings in Philippine industries like mining and agriculture,\" he said in a statement.

\"The trend in the global money market is focused on the more stable gold and other mineral-based investments,\" Nograles said in the wake of the current global financial turmoil spawned by the US financial crisis. - Delon Porcalla (Philstar News Service, www.philstar.com)


Offline Marcus

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2008, 05:15:40 AM »
Well i am married one son aged ten.. We have a place in San Vicente, Diet camerines norte my wife bought it some 2 years back

We live here in the UK North Wales, and we I have been to the Philippines a few times  we are thinking of going to the philippines in Jan 2009
 
I was wondering dose anybody have any ideas about the place itself I stayed there for around a month last year I found it very quite a bit lonely to be honest I would say it was a friendly place? ..but I am not too sure about the place..

I am planning on staying there for around six months maybe longer I need to do something with the land around 4 hectors... to be honest I am not too sure how safe the place is when I was there last time I felt isolated to some degree and the land is not in town or the village its outside of it..

What is the safety issue if any? Or is it just a matter of getting used to the place.. ? i just feel a little Uncomfortable  for some unknown reasons..  ... sounds crazy  but that how i feel.. this time.. i have never been botherd before about safety issues :

Any safety precautions I should take or that you could advise me on.. I would be very grateful for your input.  Great site by the way.. Thank you
Marcus

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2008, 09:30:08 AM »
I lived in the province in Leyte for 18 years and I never felt unsafe but saying that I would follow my instincts if I felt unsafe.

Offline jonnyivy

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Re: IS THERE HOPE ONCE AGAIN [foreign owned property]
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2008, 08:40:27 PM »
My wife\'s home village is somewhat like you described Marcus, and it just takes time to get used to and fit in. I been there for visits 8 times now, 3 weeks at a time, and each time I feel more and more relaxed and part of the community. I can walk from the local store at midnight to our house, through some dark narrow alleys without a moments hesitation. Often hear from the shadows, a voice whispering \" good evening Uncle John \" as I near the house, but no idea who it is ! Safety is a common sense issue that I would expect most of us would recognise should there be a situation that appears abnormal. I took my 9 year old son there last year and he just mixed in with the local boys and ran wild all day, no worries about his safety as he always had 10 or more friends round him all the time (mostly family cousins ) and they would report back to us where they were all playing out.

One thing I would say, maybe other expats could confirm this,... my wifes family are reporting that because matters are now getting even worse financially in the village, there are more and more thefts from houses than there were 1-2 years ago. People are finding it nessessary to turn to crime just to survive, which worries me a little.
John
A True Friend Is Someone Who Sees the Pain in Your Eyes While Everyone Else Believes the Smile on Your Face