Author Topic: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve  (Read 2422 times)

Offline geno555

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Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« on: March 18, 2009, 07:54:45 PM »
 I cant the attachements to work for photobucket and this is probablly breaking every rule, but please forgive me, for pictures of the house please vist

http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/nn141/geno555/


for pictures of the house and fllorr plans.
Murf

Offline dylanaz

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 11:24:33 PM »
That IS nice !

I really like that staircase at the big window!
I have seen so much conflict while in the Philippines - amazingly 99% of it was merely online computer experiences :D

Offline RUFUS

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 12:15:38 AM »
Ahhhh...
Here are your pics. SWEEEET house.
SO SAYETH THE RUFUS

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 06:22:44 AM »
No rules were broken, bent or disfigured.   ;D  We allow anyone to post their photos from PhotoBucket. 

I do need to mention, though, that if any of you send us a link to your PhotoBucket albums, we can see ALL of your photos.  Just a heads up so that no one sees any pics of you folks after getting drunk, frisky and camera-happy.   :o  ::)   ;D ;D ;D

Nice house, by the way!  I can hardly wait to help you break it in!!   ;D ;D



Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline geno555

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 12:49:57 PM »
Didn\'t know where to put this exactly so will let the \"strong\" among you decide for yourself. ::)

Remember this is one person opinion trying to deal with a house building project for my wife before I expire ;D ;D, it agrees with some very wise and sage advice by experts on here and flies right in the face of what some of said , posted and quoted straight from the BIR web site.

The problem i am having and yes, so you will know I am using a Filipino Lawyer who only does real estate practice, he is the one who sold my wife the land in 2005.I am dealing with an Engineer who has designed the house to met my specifications and I am asking both of them lots of hard and tough questions and getting much to my surprise quite an education in what is the law of the land and what is commonly done here in the provinces.

The  problem i am having is this, when my wife bough the property, we drew up the deed of sale had the land surveys with the landing post installed, had 6 blueprints done and approved by DNR. But when we go to the county accessors office there is the problem of the capital  gains tax not being paid. My wife first dealt with this as I was told not to go as it would only make matter worse for i was an American and the price would go up, well for God;s sake her last name is Murphy , how many national born Filipinos do you know with that last name, not many is my guess. But after a month I went armed with my copy of the law from the BIR web site that stated clearly that it was the seller who paid the Capital Gain Tax, not the buyer for it was the seller who realized a capital investment for he received monies from my wife for the sale of a piece of real estate. The man was very polite and said, well your right that is what the law says, but the seller has since said she is widowed, (who is she fooling she was widowed at the time) and did not have the money and since my wife was married to an American I would be the one who should pay it. I asked him, so what does mean, the law can be circumvented by anyone who says, i don\'t have the money, she is married to an American so stick him with the capital gain tax and now the fees and penalties and interests that have accrued since 2004, yeah i know i should have took care of it then, but i was working on  a visa to get my wife back to the USA.

Anyway now that we are back since October of last year, have a have design anxious to get started, I told my wife, grab the brief case with all the legal papers pertaining to this property and we are going to see our lawyer. I explained proudly to him, how  had trusted him when i chose him as my attorney before but now had a problem, needed his help and some straight answers.He said certainly, i explained just what i have quoted you above , he smiled shook his head and said, you are 100% right BIR states the one who sells the property pays the Capital Gain Tax unless some stipulation is put in the deed of sale that the buyer would. I said there is no such stipulation, he agreed and said, now here is the logic of the law, in this province, it has somehow become a practice to have the buyer be the one who pays the capital gain tax, for the pure simple economics of it is usually when the seller is selling his or her property he needs the cash and is short on liquid assets.

So then i asked him, if my wife was married to a Filipino would the same thing be happening and he said yes and he is working on a case right now and brought his wife in, who you tell was the brains behind this whole operation for she filed all the papers with all the municipalities offices, the DNR, BIR, accessors office, documentary stamps, building and land permits etc.

So i said can my wife sue here to make her pay, he sure, if she wants to wait years in court for a judge to tell her that the seller is indigent and cannot afford to pay the tax.He said i assure you if she isn\'t indent now before you sue her, she will become indigent very shortly after she get the letter from the court.

He saw I was frustrated and getting hotter by the moment so brought me a cup of green tea with herbs in it that he said would sooth my level of frustration. I smiled for showing my emotions so easily on my sleeve, but once again i thought , here it is i have been taken by this country for a ride when all i am trying to do is be a honest upstanding citizen.

After the tea , I told him of a idea my engineer told me to ask him, I thought it stupid for no way would they do this in American, but i am one long way from Kansas \"toto\" ;D

I said can you do a new deed of sale dated say as soon as i can get the seller to agree if she will to sign, so then the capital gain tax that it looks like I am going to have to pay in spite of the law is at least not full of interests , penalties  and late fees, he said sure, there are two problems but I think it can be done.l

He said first thing to do is to get my wife to submit all your papers to BIR and see exactly how much you owe in back taxes and penalties. of course we will no pay that but they will they my wife , we can tell you to see if it is a figure you can live with and not have to pay me to do a new deed of sale . You may be surprised you may shocked, I can\'t tell.

Second the past seller had three daughters all having equal rights in the property , they each signed a special power of attorney giving their mother approval to sell the land and they would make no claims upon it either now or in the future. But two of them live in the RP, one is a lawyer or claims to be living in New York City,The original seller is still alive so being the principle her power of attorney we don\'t need again for all of her daughters except one live in the RP. The one in New York however will have to sign again and date again a new power of attorney.

Your only ace hole in any of this is you told me this morning when you came in you got  call from Immigration that your 13A and ACR provisional had been approved and your just waiting for an appointment to go to Davao to pick them up. The courts will only listen to your wife on this matter for you are here on a BB status only, but the 13A changes everything, not that you are a citizen but you are treated with a little kinder understanding of the law of the land.
By all means do not use this as any type of guideline about what works and what does not work in the RP when it comes to Real Estate Law, land titles and etc. I am still wet behind the ears when it comes to things like this and have listened with learned ears for many months to the sage advice of you guys who have already done did that been there, I just thought I would share my story to let you know not all things work the same as they do in Pasic City as they do in Bayugan. It is a “Jungle out here” and I love it.
For me I just took the road less covered with collateral damage?, we do have that in the RP you know, it is just  called by another name.   ;D

The  Murf.

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 04:25:04 PM »
Murf, the answer to all your problems is \'This is the Philippines\'  ;D I will update later on my experiences with Double Taxation Releif and obtaining (or not) a TIN.
My advise is not to get involved in this double dealing, your wifes name is connected with the origal sale, and attemping a resale could cause you a lot of problems. I don\'t know what the capital gains tax was on the lots we bought because we did not pay it, but I have a feeling it was not too high. As a suggestion, perhaps you could approach the seller, point out that she should pay the tax, but offer to pay half of it to avoid her recieving a summons and having to go to court. Worth a try.

Colin

Offline geno555

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 05:06:27 PM »
Murf, the answer to all your problems is \'This is the Philippines\'  ;D I will update later on my experiences with Double Taxation Releif and obtaining (or not) a TIN.
My advise is not to get involved in this double dealing, your wifes name is connected with the original sale, and attempting a resale could cause you a lot of problems. I don\'t know what the capital gains tax was on the lots we bought because we did not pay it, but I have a feeling it was not too high. As a suggestion, perhaps you could approach the seller, point out that she should pay the tax, but offer to pay half of it to avoid her recieving a summons and having to go to court. Worth a try.

Colin

Colin my friend you are exactly right this is the Philippines and I wish I could get just a little credit for learning, maybe slowly but learning. To set the record straight i never had any plans of getting my name involved with the deed of sale or the capital gain taxes or any of that stuff, i just am a stickler when I have people come to my mothers home when me and my wife or in the usa and scare the hell out of my Nanay about all this capital gain tax she owed, she has never been or called her since i\'ve been hear...and now for the great part, i just call from my attorney his wife took all of our papers and without even a new deed of sale and getting the old seller involved which she might not want to do, and instead of taking her to court, i have had people tell me, and one of these was suppose to be the smartest real estate attorney in Manila, that I could owe as much as 120 000 pesos in back penalties,My wife goes tomorrow to pay the capital gain tax including all our late fees and assessments for a grand total of 16,660 pesos. Yeah not chicken fee, but some of these people including some of my close friends were telling me stories... when the guy gold me i owed 120,000 pesos, i said your a damned idiot sir , but i only paid 90,000 for the lot.

not bad for a country boy who the first time i took a construction job when i was 26 and on leave from the military and bored, the boss asked me did i have experience or did i want to be a labor , i said hell no i want real job, he said OK, she that gazebo out by whole number 9 on this golf course go shingle the top of it for me its 10 now you should be done by 5 at quitting time. well well i didn\'t know the bar in this resort overlooked the golf course and of course had a perfect view of hole number 9 and the gazebo, and the whole crew was there drinking on break watch me as i took one row of shingles up at a time, starting at the top, did a row and then forced the second row under the first, i bet they got the biggest laugh they had it their lives. and by god the guy didn\'t even fire me, he said s***, any Irishmen who can bullshit this Mick that good can be my personal gofer, so i just went to town about 4 times a day 3 times for meals breaks and donuts and coffees and of course the boss fifth of royal crown he had to have exactly at 5.

Short ending to a a long story we are on our way to construction date sometime soon.I can get the permits from the city as soon as my wife gets the CAR (clear from all the department heads at all the offices which the lawyers is going to take her to personally and assist her.
one Happy Murf....time for several cool ones...........HOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Offline Manila Cockney

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 06:30:38 PM »
Not much help now but for people doing this in the future. Before you can get the TCT (Title) you must have a Certificate of Authorisation (CAR) . From the BIR website

17) What is a Certificate Authorizing Registration?

Certificate Authorizing Registration (CAR) is a certification issued by the Commissioner or his duly authorized representative attesting that the transfer and conveyance of land, buildings/improvements or shares of stock arising from sale, barter or exchange have been reported and the taxes due inclusive of the documentary stamp tax, have been fully paid.

CARs shall now have a validity of one (1) year from date of issue. In case of failure to present the same to the Registry of Deeds (RD) within the one (1) year period, the same shall be presented for revalidation to the District Office where the CAR was issued. The revalidation, evidenced by stamping the phrase \"revalidated on __________ to expire on ___________\" in a conspicuous space in the CAR, shall be good for another one-year period, after which the CAR losses its validity. (RMO 15-2003)


The seller knows this and why they are now trying to force you to pay. GCT is 6% of the sale price so if you buying property for say 5 million pesos, what you do is have a bankers draft to the payee for 4.7 million pesos and another one to BIR for 300,000 pesos. This way the tax gets paid. This was advised to my by my lawyer. My broker got the seller to fill out the CGT form and she paid the BIR.

There is an exemption to pay CGT if the proceeds of the sale of the principal residence have been fully utilized in acquiring or constructing new principal residence within eighteen (18) calendar months from the date of sale or disposition. If exemption is claimed the buyer withholds the CGT from the sale price and places the amount in escrow.

Offline dylanaz

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 10:13:03 PM »
the seller has since said she is widowed, (who is she fooling she was widowed at the time) and did not have the money and since my wife was married to an American I would be the one who should pay it.

This type of thing will happen again and again until you put your foot down. But not everyone here is like that. Many turn away a crooked dollar and settle for a just and ethical 50 centavos!  :P
Little things like this caused me to be weary in past posts about getitng title after you start building... but sometimes you find the honest people... and sometimes you dont...

The last non-honest I wrote about in sept/oct 2008 I spent many many more peso than were in dispute just to make a point.... and I have heard the chikka chikka... Its starting to sound like people are getting the hint that I wont part with P10k P20k or P40k just because its too much of a hassle to stand up for myself... Now (as BenK said last year) \"those type of people\" have to look elsewhere.

People see me in my area once... and NEVER forget me... and I believe other \'foreigners\' can be easily identified in their communities as well... 

Just try not to get labeled as an easy source of money for anyone up to the challenge...

I have had many attempt to \"out my money\" but I think I only mentiond one such event on this forum.

Sure.. it may be much, much safer in the short term to just pay up but you mentioned you want to leave something good for your asawa. It may be a good if (god forbid) when that time comes that people dont think she is the new money machine and try to \"out\" her money also...

Manila Cockneys info may still help great deal... he mentioned his lawyer gave him that advice...
As long as its a disinterested 3rd party a lawyer may be a good idea for all \"foreigners\".

Murf... maybe your asawa still has the option of opening a case against the seller as mentioned... yes.. the seller will panick and become bankrupt... but thats not the goal... it will send a message that you and your asawa can not be walked over by everyone just because she is married to a \"foreigner\"

I have heard that \"ooh youre just a foreigner\" so many times as justification for \"financial injustice\" that I tell people if they call me \"foreigner\" I take it the same as if they were cursing me with very bad words.  ;)

Just one day ago in a real estate dispute (conclusion to my Sept/Oct 2008 posts) the property owner told me \"ooh your just a foreigner\" and mentioned my lack of rights before she summoned the local PNP to help her \"rob\" me.... (she told me to immdiately vacate her property even as I paid in advance for 1 year and am paid in full until July 2009). She noted I have 2 houses and will not be homeless despite the fact that she demanded to keep ALL advance payments while she illegally terminates our signed contract.

The PNP are nice and are there \"to serve and protect\"... and after a chat between me and the PNP and a review of her file (yes I keep a file including my lawyer filings and my completed and filed police complaints) the PNP respctfully greeted me farewell ... and I returned the respect to them as well... she walked away in tears... end of file

Just because you were born in another country doesnt mean you have to lay down for all assaults on your wallet  :P

Her \"spokesperson\" later told me everything is ok now... and the landlord was just angry.... wow... 6 months of anger... thats not good ...

But she was very fortunate to be only about 23 and already have 5 brand new house and lots fully paid thanks to her 62 yr old blond/blue kano husband... who by the way lives in USA and has not even seen her in over a year...

YOU FIGURE THAT PART OUT... I will let him comment on that in person... if he decides to join the world of the internet... you should get the picture by now. (I have his number if you want to find out for yourself... I will have to ask him if its ok to share with you first thou - im sure you understand)

tsk tsk tsk
I have seen so much conflict while in the Philippines - amazingly 99% of it was merely online computer experiences :D

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 08:10:24 AM »
We have bought three pieces of land here in the Philippines and we always put in the deed of sale the buyer will pay the capitol gains but the amount will be deducted from the selling price.  This was agreed before going too sign papers. If you don\'t do that 90% of the time you will be stuck with paying. Dick

Offline dylanaz

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 10:43:57 AM »
GCT is 6% of the sale price so if you buying property for say 5 million pesos, what you do is have a bankers draft to the payee for 4.7 million pesos and another one to BIR for 300,000 pesos. This way the tax gets paid. This was advised to my by my lawyer. My broker got the seller to fill out the CGT form and she paid the BIR.


Quote from: dick7517
we always put in the deed of sale the buyer will pay the capitol gains but the amount will be deducted from the selling price.  This was agreed before going too sign papers. If you don\'t do that 90% of the time you will be stuck with paying. Dick

Thanks for the information you all !
This will definitely help in my next purchase and im sure it will help others as well !
I have seen so much conflict while in the Philippines - amazingly 99% of it was merely online computer experiences :D

Offline geno555

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Re: Murfs and Jens not mansion but what we deserve
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 10:58:22 AM »


dylanaz

Thank you for your words of encouragement, I was simply trying to show through some levity on my part that I guess did not work lol, that please don\'t make the same mistakes I had when in comes to real estate planning and buying and titles and etc.

My wife is on her way now to pay the capital gains tax that has not been paid for going on almost 5 years, I did not have to take anyone to court, I did not have to pay my attorney another contract fee for him to drawn up another deed of sale and date it now so my capital gain tax would be less. In the end I will always do what is most prudent for the conveyance of my wife and extended family here where I live. My health is on the wayward side due to the effects of Agent Orange, so some times, I take matters into my own hands, even though i read what the experts here have to say about the law and what is right, I sometimes have to admit I get tired of other people telling me well this is \"how you have to do it\" for it can be done no other way, while i respect that their process worked for them behind their gated communities in Manila. Things do not always happen the same in the rural provinces where I chose to live.

My whole tax including all the penalties and interest and other assessments were just 16,600. Just got a call from my wife, she just talked with our lawyers gave them the money and they will be the ones who go to all the agencies and take care of this for me.

Of course is not the ideal way to handle a real estate transactions, of course I made mistakes, but I am human, and I also have in my heart a sense of compassion who sometimes make mistakes but admit to them and learn from them.
I find your writing both compassionate and always allowing me to learn something and that is something that I look forward to every day.
I wish others had been as insightful as you in reading my post, instead of just telling me what I “should have”, “could have” and “ought to “have done.
It’s very easy to always be right, Its even more easy to prejudge others.

I never claimed to be a smart man; I am a simple soldier and will die one. But I do have vast life experiences and after retiring from the military sent myself to college to take up Forensic Psychiatry.

After a while you get to know people from the words they chose to say to you and how they use them.
One of my favorite stories goes as follows hope you enjoy .
The clever man tells, the wise man knows quietly
You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.
- Naguib Mahfouz, writer (1911- )

A clever man will always tell you answers. He will tell you things you may not even care about. His purpose is to impress. To be more accurate, his purpose is, like that of Narcissus, to see himself reflected in the reaction on your face.

It may be arrogance, hubris or insecurity that causes him to seek a reaction from you. You are the fulfillment of the need of a clever man. You are the audience that satisfies his need.

A wise man will not try to convince you of anything. A wise man is trying to build himself, not to build you. He asks questions because he wants to learn more. He needs to learn more because he is aware of how little he knows about so many things. He is aware less of what he knows than of what he does not yet know.

A wise man will not proselytize you. If you are willing and eager, he may guide you to find your own answers. He will not push you because he is on his own quest.

Then we have those who are neither clever, wanting to convey to us how much they know, nor wise. They do not ask questions. They wish to give the impression that they know as much as they need to know.

They have learned from the ethics of business that they should \"never let them see you sweat.\" Never give the impression that you don\'t know. When you don\'t know, fake it. Pretend. Most times the others won\'t know that you don\'t know.

While that is the apparent ethic of business, it\'s not a real one. The person who doesn\'t ask questions and who doesn\'t know will never rise against the competition because deep down the others know the truth. The ones who know will reach where they want to go.

The ones who do not ask questions don\'t try to learn. They remain ignorant. Comfortably ignorant, as they persuade even themselves that they know as much as they need to know.

Yet they are always poor. Poor of spirit because they think of themselves first. Poor of intellect because they close doors of opportunity to learn. Poor of character because they deceive even themselves, thus have no hesitation about deceiving others.

A wise man will share what he knows. But you will have to ask. Otherwise he will be busy.

He has his own quest. He will assume that you have your own.

Bill Allin

The “Murf”