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Author Topic: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!  (Read 4054 times)

Offline tennesseevolunteer

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One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« on: June 15, 2009, 09:00:58 AM »
I have been in contact with two architects in the Philippines plus trying to located an 5th year architect. The price even with a discount is a large sum of money JUST TO DRAW CONSTRUCTION BLUE PRINTS. My son is a Design Engineer that uses auto cad in designing very large malls, grocery shopping centers and many more commerical buildings. My question is is it a requirement that a Filipino architect sign the blue prints? Also would it be possible to get an Filpino architect to certify blue prints produced by my son?


Offline fred

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 10:04:43 AM »
If you think that the blue prints were expensive you should wait and see how much the building permit will be!!
We had someone that knew the city hall engineer..30,000PHP for the drawing and the building permit included as he`s the guy that signs all building permits..
That was for a 3 story apartment building...Might be an idea to do the same?

Offline cogon88

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 12:35:49 PM »
If you think that the blue prints were expensive you should wait and see how much the building permit will be!!
We had someone that knew the city hall engineer..30,000PHP for the drawing and the building permit included as he`s the guy that signs all building permits..
That was for a 3 story apartment building...Might be an idea to do the same?

Good advice

I have always used the local city engineer to draw up blue prints and to get the building permits if your local town engineer turns you down just go to the next town and ask that engineer

I have built 3 large warehouses and one home this way total cost for blueprints and building permits under 500USD per construction if you are building a large home you can also buy complete blue prints on line for USD 1000 that the local city engineer can sign off on for a small additional charge the city engineer agreed to stop by the site a few times a week to make sure that all construction was  to code if you hire the city engineer you will also have no problems getting your occupancy permit and electrical plan approved to hook up your electric

Tom / Roxas City Capiz

Offline maricel

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 01:09:58 PM »
Guys,

I understand your concern regarding going to engineer and 5th year students to draw your plans so you can save a lot.  But then again engineers can only sign structural plans and not architectural.  I know you know Philippines to be a corrupt country and you can get away with anything but then I would like to partake not just to you but everybody in the forum what is the legal way in construction.  Those engineers signing the plans are in violation. Of course you can get away with it. You maybe charged very cheaply with the blueprints and the works of a licensed architect that is being overtaken by civil engineers and students but you will always be overcharged with other things such as building permit and other fees.  Bribery is ever present here.

You can always choose the narrow way and the broad way. ;D

You can read what is the law concerning practice of architecture. http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra2004/ra_9266_2004.html
http://taskforcera9266.page.tl/

Engineers in our area are not allowed to sign architectural plan.

I\'m just here to protect the realm of architecture practice in our country, there maybe a few of us but then its worth the good fight even if it means lesser projects..

It\'s always up to you to decide. Best of luck. :)
God bless you all!

Maricel

Offline geno555

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 04:02:07 PM »
Maricel
while I agree with almost everything you say, for i guess bribery is everywhere, maybe I was just blessed, I have an civil structure Engineer who does stress test for the highway and Bridge Construction in Manila and a architect who as you say just designed the house to my specifications and then sent the whole package to his brother to structurally approve it and he turned his own brother down on the first set of drawings because now don\'t quote me, the degree of my arch door ways that I insisted on were two degrees to sharp and did not met the specs for something called a load bearing wall. he had to redo the whole stetch send it back and this time it was signed by him and then had a zeal from some governmental agency,the other brother is a engineer also the other is a doctor in John Hopkins a cardiac surgeon and his one sister a nurse in John Hopkins. He has 6 projects going on right now, one new Shell Gas Station, a hotel and two homes for two south Koreans, but he manages to come or call me ever day. I have been lucky I guess. God Bless The :Murf:

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 07:15:58 PM »
Guys,

I understand your concern regarding going to engineer and 5th year students to draw your plans so you can save a lot.  But then again engineers can only sign structural plans and not architectural.  I know you know Philippines to be a corrupt country and you can get away with anything but then I would like to partake not just to you but everybody in the forum what is the legal way in construction.  Those engineers signing the plans are in violation. Of course you can get away with it. You maybe charged very cheaply with the blueprints and the works of a licensed architect that is being overtaken by civil engineers and students but you will always be overcharged with other things such as building permit and other fees.  Bribery is ever present here.

You can always choose the narrow way and the broad way. ;D

You can read what is the law concerning practice of architecture. http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra2004/ra_9266_2004.html
http://taskforcera9266.page.tl/

Engineers in our area are not allowed to sign architectural plan.

I\'m just here to protect the realm of architecture practice in our country, there maybe a few of us but then its worth the good fight even if it means lesser projects..

It\'s always up to you to decide. Best of luck. :)



I can understand your view, after spending many years to get your qualifications, to be bypassed. I also understand the need for the strict regulations you have quoted when it comes to large project such as tower blocks and public buildings but wonder if they are so necessary for relatively small private homes. It is not difficult to draw up a straightforward house plan, and a good qualified engineer will be familiar with all the structural requirements.

Colin

Offline maricel

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 11:48:51 PM »
Colin

Well everybody can understand a plan in their own way. Even you can understand it maybe in a month of self study. Ever wonder why we have to go to the doctor and not directly to the pharmacist even if you have a feeling that sickness is just a flu. Its not difficult just to buy immediately the medicine.  Just wondering :)
God bless you all!

Maricel

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 07:12:20 AM »
Colin

Well everybody can understand a plan in their own way. Even you can understand it maybe in a month of self study. Ever wonder why we have to go to the doctor and not directly to the pharmacist even if you have a feeling that sickness is just a flu. Its not difficult just to buy immediately the medicine.  Just wondering :)

Hi Maricel,

Most people who believe they have flu will go directly to the pharmacy to buy medication, particularly here in the Philippines, and it is even possible to buy antibiotics over the counter. Please don\'t think I am criticizing your qualifications, or the need for strict regulations but just wondering if the penalties involved are too harsh for very small projects such as private houses. Maybe this is why they are ignored, and common sense prevails. It is difficult to enforce something that people may see as pointless, particularly if an architects services are seen to be expensive.

Colin

Offline maricel

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 09:48:24 AM »
Hi Colin,

How come people are objecting the fee of architects in the Philippines which is only 10% of the construction cost but in other countries like US the architects are charging 18%.  This is because engineers are bypassing us and clients are having options to go there. But that was before.  There is now a law that\'s prohibiting them to sign architectural plans. But then since most officials in city or municipalities are engineers, this law again is being bypassed and ignored.  You must be aware that the engineers study differently, they focuses on calculations and strength, load bearing.  Ask them the National building code standard of a minimum height of ceiling or the minimum width of fire exit door and almost all of them are not knowledgeable.  My point is they have been taking over the role of architects for years and it\'s time to stop now.  In our place now, civil engineers can have their licensed revoked if they sign architectural plans. I\'m talking about here the law and not my own personal gain and people kept on insisting the illegal and cheap way. :) :)  But then again it\'s always your choice.

One thing more, ever wonder why engineers charge the plans cheaply and even give it for free if you make them the contractor?  It\'s because they know they are giving little knowledge in designing as they knew little.  They will just rip you off in the construction.  Just talking from experience and I\'m sure a lot of you guys experienced that one one way or the other. Nothing comes free and cheap in this world especially if you want quality.  Clients will always have to pay the price even if at first it appears to be cheap.
God bless you all!

Maricel

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 10:17:09 AM »
Hi Maricel,

I am not disagreeing with anything you say, but most foreigners here would not be able to afford to build in their own country so the higher 18% cost is not a consideration. One of my reasons for moving here was so that I could build my dream home. I have done most of the design work, but do not have any knowledge of the the structural requirements for the way houses are built here. I am dealing directly with an engineer, but there will be an architect involved in completing the plans and obtaining the permit. I do not know yet what his fees will be. The engineer will be doing all the building supervision.

While there may be building standards for minimum ceiling height and width of fire doors, are they really relevant to a private home?
Please don\'t be offended, I think we all know how things work in this country, and we learn to just \'go along with the flow\'. ;D

Colin

Offline fred

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 06:20:02 PM »
Guys,

I understand your concern regarding going to engineer and 5th year students to draw your plans so you can save a lot.  But then again engineers can only sign structural plans and not architectural.  I know you know Philippines to be a corrupt country and you can get away with anything but then I would like to partake not just to you but everybody in the forum what is the legal way in construction.  Those engineers signing the plans are in violation. Of course you can get away with it. You maybe charged very cheaply with the blueprints and the works of a licensed architect that is being overtaken by civil engineers and students but you will always be overcharged with other things such as building permit and other fees.  Bribery is ever present here.

You can always choose the narrow way and the broad way. ;D

You can read what is the law concerning practice of architecture. http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra2004/ra_9266_2004.html
http://taskforcera9266.page.tl/

Engineers in our area are not allowed to sign architectural plan.

I\'m just here to protect the realm of architecture practice in our country, there maybe a few of us but then its worth the good fight even if it means lesser projects..

It\'s always up to you to decide. Best of luck. :)



To be honest I cannot remember if he signed everything on our drawings or not..I would imagine he had a qualified architect somewhere in the office?? Thing is we did try to hire an architect in Cavite and she gave us some really nice perspective and rough floor plans..She was related to my brother in law and worked for one of the large shopping malls..Problem was when we asked her if she could help us acquire permits she declined as the engineers office could make the process unbearable..(and unbearably expensive!!)
This is the kind of thing that needs to be sorted out before the changing of all kinds of laws and requirements..
As much as I would have liked to do things the way you suggest Im afraid that being realistic here might lead me to believe that our building may well never have been built!
When in Rome ...as they say.
 

Quote
if you hire the city engineer you will also have no problems getting your occupancy permit and electrical plan approved to hook up your electric

Tom / Roxas City Capiz


Yes exactly and everything went as smooth as silk.. 10 kilo of fresh prawns given as a small \"thank you\" after a meeting also worked wonders.

Offline fred

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 06:28:38 PM »
Quote
How come people are objecting the fee of architects in the Philippines which is only 10%

For our project that would have been around the Million mark..
Good work....If you can get it!

Offline geno555

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 06:58:36 PM »
Colin

Well everybody can understand a plan in their own way. Even you can understand it maybe in a month of self study. Ever wonder why we have to go to the doctor and not directly to the pharmacist even if you have a feeling that sickness is just a flu. Its not difficult just to buy immediately the medicine.  Just wondering :)

I as usual am a little confused, I think what Colin was saying in  a polite way is that many thing are different in the provinces as compared lets say to Luzon or Santa Rosa or Metro Manila.Some people just can\'t afford the price of both engineer and architect. Now you may be wonderfully  trained but due to poverty, you never be call upon for your services by the  average Filipino , maybe a foreigner like me yes, that\'s possible

i took much heat and criticism for hiring both a civil engineer and architect , but in my past i have built two homes both wooden structures designed by me and hired only a good electrician, plumber, finish and regualr carpenter, did my own carpets and all my own decorating and did just fine.

Here i don\'t know what a hollow brick house is, so i go to people who have a proven track record of success and go from there.Colin is not questioning your credentials or work ethics but here everyone seems to march to the beat of their own drummer right or wrong, and who decides what is right or wrong..

now for me, i am confused about what you say about going to the doctor when your sick with the flu? I have a vast background in the medical field both in nursing, pharmacy and Forensic Psychiatry. I find the poverty level here in my own area to be such that even if a person is really suffering lets say with and infected gum line from a cavity, which if left untreated could turn septic and cause a cornary, but if poverty stricken people need to choose between a pill for pain, or rice for their children it is IMHO, they willl forgo the pain pill every time and suffer both stoically and silently. that is called family first...something the Americans could use a little more of
just a kanoys 2 centavos worth.

the Murf

Offline maricel

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 10:33:40 AM »
Guys,

I get your point and I\'m sure you\'re getting mine as I assume you all to be intelligent no need for explaining.  So rather than go around the circles and going anywhere else lets just drink to that.  Pass around that Redhorse and some pulutan  ; :D :D. Cheers to all!  :) :) :)
God bless you all!

Maricel

Offline coutts00

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Re: One more question concerning Architects !!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2009, 09:32:33 PM »
Not sure I like the fact that we are ragging on and complaining about a professionals fee structure. If you were in the US or the UK or Europe you would not complain. There are rules, regulations and codes of practice in all of those places. There are rules, regulations and codes of practice in the RP as well.

But here we are advocating avoiding those very same rules that are put in place for our safety. Don\'t complain about the lady justifying her profession. If you hire a fifth year grad, you get fifth year grad work.

If you building fails in a typhoon, go blame the fifth year grad and all of the guys you paid to avoid doing it the right way.

Wayne   ::) ::)
Wayne  ;D ;D