electricity in the Philippines

[hitekcountry]

To be honest my reaction when I first heard the idea of using the rebar incased within concrete as a ground just didn’t sit right somehow. Also I won’t use the plumbing in a building for ground. I’ve seen too many times where someone has repaired/replaced the buried section of the metal plumbing with PVC pipe not knowing that they just destroyed the grounding system for the building.

I’ll stick with the grounding rods, I believe in having a good ground.

[Killjoygreg]

In the last 12 months in some parts of Australia is has become compulsory to earth ie ground the rio in the concrete slab of new dwellings. And a test point must be provided at the other end of the slab to test continuity. This however would never be regarded as a main earthing point. It must be soldered to the main earthing wire. An earthing stake is the main earthing point.

[harry80020]

Dear Harry,

Yes, it is a decent conductor and one of choices for the 2 required ground references by the NEC: buried copper plate, copper rod in earth, cold water pipe in earth, and "steel re-bar in concrete foundation.

Best always,
the other Harry.


Metz,

Pardon my ignorance as I'm no electrician. But being as the rebar is buried in concrete
is concrete a conductor? To my way of thinking it would not provide a substantial ground.

Harry?

[harry80020]

Dear Joel,

    Yes, you can use an American 120 volt breaker & American 120 volt wire on Philippine 220 volt systems.  American style 220 volt breakers are actually two 120 volt breakers tied together so they both open in case of an overload or short circuit, American breakers are rated at 300 volts.  Even light duty American lamp cord (wire for plug) is rated at 300 volts, they use the same cord in the PI for 220.  You will have to check the writing on your "romex" house wire for the voltage rating for the insulation, but I imagine it will be 600 volts.  Any breaker has to be the correct style & brand to fit  the panel it's installed in and has to be the correct ampere rating for the circuit: 15 amps, 20 amps, etc.   And any wire installed on either 120 or 220 must be large enough to carry the amp rating of the breaker or fuse.

Best always,
Harry.
 

I do have a question about wiring in the phils.  When there I notice that the "power boxes" are similar to our boxes here.  The one my friend Maki has has breakers that look very similar to ours also.  So here's my question.....can you use a 110 breaker on a box there and run a circuit of 110 wire?  Or do the boxes there not permit for that?  I remember my dad always putting the boxes together on houses he build when I was growing up and would spend a day with him at his company.  He could use both 110 and 220 breakers(fuses earlier in my childhood) on the same "spine" of the power box.  If such is available there, I can see myself running a couple circuits in the house with maybe a different color plug or something to keep them "separated" in appearance from the normal 220.

Thanks for any help,
Joel P.

[graham]

To be honest my reaction when I first heard the idea of using the rebar incased within concrete as a ground just didn’t sit right somehow. Also I won’t use the plumbing in a building for ground. I’ve seen too many times where someone has repaired/replaced the buried section of the metal plumbing with PVC pipe not knowing that they just destroyed the grounding system for the building.

I’ll stick with the grounding rods, I believe in having a good ground.

In Australia it is now illegal to use the galvanised/copper water pipes for grounding. Too many plumbers were getting electrocuted due to faulty wiring.

Graham

[harry80020]

re: In Australia it is now illegal to use the galvanised/copper water pipes for grounding. Too many plumbers were getting electrocuted due to faulty wiring.

Graham

Hi Graham,

    It's best to install a bypass conductor around the water meter.  If the water meter hasn't been installed yet or is taken out for service/repair, the water pipes can become energized.  Plumbers here won't touch the water pipes if they don't see the a water meter or jumper in place.  Plumbers never trust electricians.

Best always,
Harry.

[harry80020]

Thanks for a heads up tip from VS:


Harry,
I have read your article about the above subject.  I have to dispute your findings since your description is not accurate 100% in the way electricity is wired and distributed!  Your observations may be true in that place where you are (Cebu)?  In the Metro-Manila area is quite different from what you observed.

I am an EE from Manila, and our house and in fact all houses in Metro-Manila, the power utility company are providing a minimum of two (2) wires, Single phase, known as or labeled as L1&L2, similar to the U.S. These wires are both "Hot", may carry anywhere from 220 - 240 Volts between them, depending on the proximity to the main distribution transformer.   The 3rd Neutral wire as known in U.S. is an option that will cost extra for the home owners. The 4th Ground wire if needed for user safety were derived locally from rod driven deep into the ground..

Consumers who have 110 Volts appliances but cannot afford to buy step-down transformers, nor pay the extra cost and charges associated with an "official" 220/110 V service from the utility company, most of the time are resorting to just creating their own 110V system by utilizing the ground and one leg of the 220V power coming from the post.  Although this is not a safe practice nor advisable for the 110 appliance proper operations due to unstable /varying power source! Yet most were doing this approach due to their economic conditions!

VS.

[Killjoygreg]

I brought a meter with me this trip to test my power. We are on a fairly new subdivision just out of Bacolod City.. We are quite close to the pole transformer and the supply voltage is 238V. It is a two wire system. One active wire and one wire at ground potential. This must be grounded somewhere at the transformer as there is no sign of any grounding in my breaker box or at my meter. Two pole circuit breakers are used. I guess this is because the two pin plugs they use can be and are inserted either way which switches the active and neutral supplies depending how it's plugged in.
 I am also renting a new unit in Quezon City and observed that the same system seemed to be used there, although I did not test this with a meter.
Just before we returned to Australia in February there was a burnt hole in the breaker box of the house which is located inside. Smoke was coming out and smoke stains evident on the wall. I had to go to the meter and break it open to pull the supply fuse. The so called builder cut on costs by not water proofing  the firewalls, just two coats of paint. In heavy rain these hollow block and render they use to build in the Philippines just soak the water up and it comes through to the inside. The breaker box was recessed and just started leaking current. When we arrived back here two weeks ago the problem was solved by making the breaker box surface mounted letting the moisture drip pass.
Of course have had the walls water proofed  at my expense and repainted. Also had the roof redone just in case.
If you are going to build over here do be extra watchful.

[Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am]

It looks pretty similar to our house build, except for I never saw the grounding rods into the ground, but we do have a ground wire at the post and we do have 3 pronged wall outlets inside the house!   

[wildbill]

I wonder if I drive in the ground a peace of rebar will that be good for grounding my washing machine even touching the water shocks the hel out of us.

[Killjoygreg]

A good article. That bloke is  very particular.  I'm a bit blasé  about it all and as I wasn't present when the electrical was done will just take it as it is Too late to run earth wires around now. Don't know what they use for earth stakes here but you would also need to get an  earth wire to the outlet you are using for your washing machine. If it is in conduit buried in your wall  it would be difficult.
Ask your  friendly local electrician.

[Metz]

I grounded my shop pretty easily. They sell this vinyl trim for electrical wire covering.  We replaced the outlets with ones we brought from the US, ran the ground wire and tied into new rod outside and to exposed rebar on the retaining wall.

[wildbill]

Thanks I was just wondering if I could instead of using a copper ground just use rebar.

[Frosty]

The main reason for using copper ground rod is to the ability of copper to resist corrosion and the low cost of the rod. Most ground rods are steel rods covered in copper, the reason for this is because it's real tough to drive an 8 foot copper rod into the ground with out it bending. You can use re-bar or a piece of pipe, the problem is the corrosion, the re-bar or pipe will only last 10 to 15 years if you are lucky and a lot of that depends on the soil condition, copper should last about 40 plus years.
Re-bar is cheap and will work. But the main reason for me to never cut corners and save a few $ is because the wife and kids will need to deal with this if I don't do it right the first time, after I'm gone.

Concrete is not a good conductor of electricity unless the Re-bar is in contact with earth it might not work as a ground. If you don't have a way to test for continuity between the re-bar and the ground you might be better off just using a ground rod

[wildbill]

thanks frosty will do it tired of being shocked washing the clothes.