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Author Topic: electricity in the Philippines  (Read 56856 times)

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2010, 12:29:03 AM »
Re: TV filters

Dear Ray,

After I posted the message about 1 of your fuses being in the neutral leg, I
got to thinking and that would be almost impossible to do to only one circuit,
although Philippine electricians are resourceful. Maybe the light switch on the
problem circuit is in the neutral, instead of the hot wire?

Usually here in the States, the power company installs lightning \"blow-outs\"
on their high voltage wires going to the primary side of the transformers. If
and when lightning does hit the wire, the blow-out shorts it direct to a ground
wire going down the pole to a ground rod or coil of bare copper wire under the
base of the pole. A lightning hit almost always destroys the blow-out and it
has to be replaced, or you have no protection at all. My friend Billy Reese
would be the one to talk to, he is a retired lineman electrician living
somewhere in the Philippines.

I think your wife might be correct. Maybe the reason we haven\'t been hit by
lightning is we don\'t have a dog?

Best always,
Harry

--- In LivingInThePhilippines3@yahoogroups.com, \"kano or just call me joe\"
wrote:
>
> Hi Harry, Actually both circuits are on the high side (hot, L1 , etc,). That\'s
what\'s strange about it...I first thought \" ok, blew a fuse on that circuit\",
guess what ? Nope, both fuses are good.
> We have the (in)famous 2 wire system in this bahay .High side and Neutral
(really ground). I built spec. houses a long time ago in California. I\'m fairly
well rounded in the trades, but no expert. I built equipment for the
semiconductor industry in Dallas,Texas also. Just another day in the life...
>
> I like what your wife does, however my asawa says it happened because I was
playing with the dog at the time!!!! Damn dog, probable static buildup caused
it!!! Just a joke, son ...
>
> A solution in the US, beside grounded service, is a lightning arrester device,
that you install in your electrical service box. Have not seen any here... Of
course in Cebu or Manila might find them...
>
> Ray in Siargao
> Amoting!
>


Dear Ray,

I would \"guess\" the circuit you lost the 6 bulbs on has the fuse in the
neutral wire, instead of the hot wire? But this is only a guess because
lightning has such a high & quick spike that anything can happen, almost always
undesirable. The switches, wiring, and circuit equipment in your house are only
rated for 300-600 volts max. Even standard household circuit breakers & fuses
can only clear a 10,000 amp spike \"somewhat safely\". Lightning can have volts &
amps many times higher.

Power strips with surge protection were never meant for and can not take a
lightning strike. Lightning rods would protect the house itself, but not your
electric system. If the lightning strikes the power line away from your house,
it is very likely to come on in through the wires.

You might try what my wife, mean old Madel, does when we have a lightning storm:
close the curtains. It must work, because we have lived through all the
lightning storms here?

Best always,
Harry.

--- In LivingInThePhilippines3@yahoogroups.com, \"kano\" wrote:
>
> Oh, I\'ve been there before... 2 weeks ago we had a lightning strike close by.
Lost a TV we didn\'t unplug. The kicker is we lost 6 of those firefly screw in
florescent lamps. Never had that happen before... We have only 2 fused circuits
in the house (a rental)and all the disruption occured only on one circuit. Go
figure!
> We \"always\" (except when we don\'t. ha ha ) unplug the TVs and computer. Works
like a champ. I had never lost the lamps thou! Anybody else experience that?
>
>
> Ray in Siargao
> Amoting!

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2010, 12:36:04 AM »
Lightning protection Asawa style:

from Ray:
I like what your wife does, however my asawa says it happened because I was
playing with the dog at the time!!!! Damn dog, probable static buildup caused
it!!! Just a joke, son ...

from Ken:
No need to close the curtains Harry, at least according to my asawa; just make
sure the mirrors are covered to stop the lightning getting in.


from Ron:
Your wife has a simple solution! My wife and in-laws rush around the house
placing coins in every corner of each room. It must work too because we\'ve
never been struck by lightening...


from Harry:
You might try what my wife, mean old Madel, does when we have a lightning
storm: close the curtains. It must work, because we have lived through all the
lightning storms here?

Offline barongoy

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2010, 01:41:47 PM »
I am currently living in Dumaguete city, Negros Oriental. We are not sure yet we are going to build here or get a condo unit in Cebu City. Will there be problem in these places as far as getting the 110v?

Where you want to buy property, walk out on the road and see their poles and transformers that are in place now. Look for the 3 insulated bushings on the side of the transformer. The center one is wired only when providing 110v.

Or go by your Service Provider\'s yard and look at the nameplate on the side of a transformer.

Billy


Thank you Bill. 

Offline Dan

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2011, 06:18:19 PM »
I read somewhere that a surge suppressor is useless unless it is plugged into an outlet that has a ground wire.  Can someone please verify if this is correct.

Thanks,

Dan

Offline coutts00

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2011, 06:55:32 AM »
A surge suppressor is designed to absorb transient voltage. This is not an over current device, over current devices have a small breaker built in that can be reset. A surge suppressor has a voltage regulator built in to it and generally are single use items. They are generally designed to stop a surge, i.e. a 3000v spike from hitting your precious stereo or digital TV or computer power supply, they are not designed for continuous use and should not be confused with a voltage regulator which is often a much larger device.

Taken from Wikipedia... \"A surge protector (or surge suppressor) is an appliance designed to protect electrical devices from voltage spikes. A surge protector attempts to regulate the voltage supplied to an electric device by either blocking or by shorting to ground voltages above a safe threshold. The following text discusses specifications and components relevant only to the type of protector that diverts (shorts) a voltage spike to ground. Many power strips have surge protection built in; these are typically clearly labeled as such. However, sometimes power strips that do not provide surge protection are erroneously referred to as surge protectors\"

As you can see some are designed to short the transient voltage to ground and other are not. To be on the safe side always ensure the device is connected to a grounded outlet.
Wayne  ;D ;D

Offline Steve & Myrlita

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2011, 08:58:37 AM »
I read somewhere that a surge suppressor is useless unless it is plugged into an outlet that has a ground wire.  Can someone please verify if this is correct.

Thanks,

Dan
Simple I know, but does the unit itself have a ground pin on the plug? If it has, I\'d guess it is required to be grounded.

Most everything you buy here has just two pins.
If memory serves, I believe most power strips with built in surge protection uses a varistor across the AC line to choke out the transient spike in voltage. My experience has been that if it was a sharp spike, the varistor shorts out thus causing the AC fuse to blow thus removing the AC from the unit. Supposedly, the smaller spikes are dampened by the varistor thus allowing the device to operate without blowing the AC fuse. \"If memory serves\". Aah, sucks to get old. God Bless......
Thank you...God Bless...
Bro Steve & Sis Myrlita
Bacolod City, PH
***********************
*** RIP MY FRIEND LEE ***
***       RIP DON H        ***
***********************

Offline Dan

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2011, 09:47:47 AM »
I have my laptop plugged into a 2-pronged power strip with an off and on switch.  Power strip is then plugged into a 500 watt Omni AVR from Ace hardware.  The AVR is also 2-pronged and plugged into the wall socket.  Am I under the false impression that this will protect my laptop from electrical spikes?

Dan

Offline coutts00

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2011, 03:49:54 PM »
The AVR is what it says, an Automatic Voltage Regulator. It will regulate the voltage to 110 or 220, it will probably have outlets for both. If the voltage is high, it will bring it down. If the voltage is low, it will not make it higher, however your laptop power supply is probably an automatic switching supply, if you look on it, the supply will probably have 110/220~240 written on it as an input voltage, so it will handle almost any voltage between the high and the low voltage.

To get a better device you would need an UPS, Colin has one for his computer but it is always switching when the power drops lower than 190v as the UPS cannot boost power beyond a certain amount without switching to battery and the inverter to boost the power.

Does your AVR have a green flying lead or a pig tail, a green wire attached to the device, that you could attach to a grounded outlet? Is there a screw on the back of the device with a ground symbol on it for you to attach a separate wire to if you wanted to?

Wayne
Wayne  ;D ;D

Offline BC Boy

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2011, 07:31:39 PM »
I need reliable power for online business.....

The AVR is not enough, i need a generator. Not to run whole house but just so i dont loose a skype call to a client. The AVR will be a nice buffer when the power goes out(as it always does... goof doom it) till i can go out and crank over a generator.

Offline Dan

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2011, 09:40:06 AM »

Does your AVR have a green flying lead or a pig tail, a green wire attached to the device, that you could attach to a grounded outlet? Is there a screw on the back of the device with a ground symbol on it for you to attach a separate wire to if you wanted to?

Wayne
[/quote]

The AVR does not have a green flying lead or any place to attach a ground wire in the back.  It does have a 3 amp fuse that I suppose will blow if there is a big enough power surge.

Dan

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2011, 11:01:42 PM »
Dear Jay,

    I have heard of 1 phase to 3 phase converters, but have no actual hands on experience with them.  I \"think\" what they actually do is convert the single phase AC supply to DC, then invert it to 3 phase AC?  Some 3 phase high frequency electric welders are made this way.  I wouldn\'t think there would be a problem as long as the converter is large enough to handle the load.  I suggest you buy a unit that is at least 125% of the total load it will be supplying.  The formula for figuring 3 phase wattage is: volts x amps x the square root of 3.  I would \"think\" this formula is already figured into the 3.8 kw, but you might want to check?  What ever, a 5 kw unit \"should\" do the job, if the 3 phase formula is already figured into the 3.8 kw.

Best always,
Harry.




    Hi Harry,

    Thank you. I\'ll talk to the power company when I get back this June.

    Aside from that, I also did some searching and came up with this web site that sells 1P-to-3P converters http://www.phaseconverter.com/ . The pricing is modest as compared to setting up a 3P line in the Philippines. A one-tonner ice-block machine has a 3.8 kw compressor. Is it feasible to use these converters? Appreciate your advice.

    thanks,
    Jay

 

        Dear Jay,

            Yes, almost all power companies generate in 3 phase and they run all 3 phases throughout their distribution/transmission system.  Although only one of the phases is usually supplied to the house systems.  You will need to talk to your power company to see how close all 3 phases are to your house and if the power company would be willing to let you have 3 phase service in your home.  As far as I know, here in the USA they don\'t allow 3 phase service in most residences.

        Best always,
        Harry.

 
            Hi Harry,

            Good day.
            I read your article about the electricity in the Philippines  and you touched about the 3-phase electricity. Is this 3P directly supplied by the electric company or is it from a converter? I\'m planning to install a one-ton ice block machine but it requires 3P.

            thanks,
            Jay



Offline cogon88

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2011, 07:50:24 AM »
Jay, why do you not just have the manufacturer of the ice machine substitue a single phase 220 volt 60 hz 3.8 KW electric motor. 3.8 KW is a small motor only 5 HP there many of that size here that are only single phase

I have 3 phase power at my rice mill cost over 4,000 USD just to install 2 poles and run the 13,200 volt lines to our transformer on the building easier to convert the ice maker to single phase motor less headaches in the long run

Tom / Roxas City  fg 

Offline richardsinger

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2011, 04:33:03 PM »
Dear Jay,

    I have heard of 1 phase to 3 phase converters, but have no actual hands on experience with them.  I \"think\" what they actually do is convert the single phase AC supply to DC, then invert it to 3 phase AC?  Some 3 phase high frequency electric welders are made this way.  I wouldn\'t think there would be a problem as long as the converter is large enough to handle the load.  I suggest you buy a unit that is at least 125% of the total load it will be supplying.  The formula for figuring 3 phase wattage is: volts x amps x the square root of 3.  I would \"think\" this formula is already figured into the 3.8 kw, but you might want to check?  What ever, a 5 kw unit \"should\" do the job, if the 3 phase formula is already figured into the 3.8 kw.

Best always,
Harry.




    Hi Harry,

    Thank you. I\'ll talk to the power company when I get back this June.

    Aside from that, I also did some searching and came up with this web site that sells 1P-to-3P converters http://www.phaseconverter.com/ . The pricing is modest as compared to setting up a 3P line in the Philippines. A one-tonner ice-block machine has a 3.8 kw compressor. Is it feasible to use these converters? Appreciate your advice.

    thanks,
    Jay

 

        Dear Jay,

            Yes, almost all power companies generate in 3 phase and they run all 3 phases throughout their distribution/transmission system.  Although only one of the phases is usually supplied to the house systems.  You will need to talk to your power company to see how close all 3 phases are to your house and if the power company would be willing to let you have 3 phase service in your home.  As far as I know, here in the USA they don\'t allow 3 phase service in most residences.

        Best always,
        Harry.

 
            Hi Harry,

            Good day.
            I read your article about the electricity in the Philippines  and you touched about the 3-phase electricity. Is this 3P directly supplied by the electric company or is it from a converter? I\'m planning to install a one-ton ice block machine but it requires 3P.

            thanks,
            Jay





Hi Harry. I\'m not sure who is the intended reader for your post, because there appear to be multiple posts there and I am a bit confused by it. Anyway, I just want to say that you should be careful about kVA and kW, because it makes a difference. Usually machines (motors and generators) are rated in kVA because the power factor, and therefore the kW, varies with loading. Your power converter has to be able to supply the maximum load current at whatever power factor the load is operating at. Power in kW, is always lower than the kVA figure, so make sure you have enough current capacity in your converter for the kVA rating, not just the kW.

Richard

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2011, 03:58:50 AM »
Dear Richard,

    kVA & kW are the same thing, both are the mathematic formula for \"single phase\" power .  I think you mean kVAR (volts x amps x reactive load)?  Usually the power company will add capacitors to the line to keep their reactive angle as close to zero as possible.

    By the way, to figure the wattage of a 3-phase load, volts x amps x 1.732 (the square root of 3) x any reactive load

Best always, 


Hi Harry. I\'m not sure who is the intended reader for your post, because there appear to be multiple posts there and I am a bit confused by it. Anyway, I just want to say that you should be careful about kVA and kW, because it makes a difference. Usually machines (motors and generators) are rated in kVA because the power factor, and therefore the kW, varies with loading. Your power converter has to be able to supply the maximum load current at whatever power factor the load is operating at. Power in kW, is always lower than the kVA figure, so make sure you have enough current capacity in your converter for the kVA rating, not just the kW.

Richard

Offline richardsinger

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2011, 06:31:29 AM »
Dear Richard,

    kVA & kW are the same thing, both are the mathematic formula for \"single phase\" power .  I think you mean kVAR (volts x amps x reactive load)?  Usually the power company will add capacitors to the line to keep their reactive angle as close to zero as possible.

    By the way, to figure the wattage of a 3-phase load, volts x amps x 1.732 (the square root of 3) x any reactive load

Hi Harry. KVA and KW are only the same when the load is purely resistive. When you are talking about rotating machines the load has a reactive component which puts the voltage and current waveforms out of phase with each other. In this condition the KW = KVA cosØ where Ø is the phase angle between voltage and current and cosØ is called the power factor. The bigger the angle, the bigger the difference between KVA and KW.

The power company may have capacitors to control power factor, but that would be over wide areas. They are not able to control an individual\'s power factor because they do not know when an individual machine will be turned on or off.

For 3 phase balanced load, the power is ?3 x V x A x cosØ. Again, this is only equal to ?3 x V x A when the load is purely resistive and the phase angle Ø is zero.

Richard