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Author Topic: electricity in the Philippines  (Read 56853 times)

Offline dylanaz

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2011, 03:30:22 AM »
Dear Richard,

    kVA & kW are the same thing, both are the mathematic formula for \"single phase\" power .  I think you mean kVAR (volts x amps x reactive load)?  Usually the power company will add capacitors to the line to keep their reactive angle as close to zero as possible.

    By the way, to figure the wattage of a 3-phase load, volts x amps x 1.732 (the square root of 3) x any reactive load

Hi Harry. KVA and KW are only the same when the load is purely resistive. When you are talking about rotating machines the load has a reactive component which puts the voltage and current waveforms out of phase with each other. In this condition the KW = KVA cosØ where Ø is the phase angle between voltage and current and cosØ is called the power factor. The bigger the angle, the bigger the difference between KVA and KW.

The power company may have capacitors to control power factor, but that would be over wide areas. They are not able to control an individual\'s power factor because they do not know when an individual machine will be turned on or off.

For 3 phase balanced load, the power is ?3 x V x A x cosØ. Again, this is only equal to ?3 x V x A when the load is purely resistive and the phase angle Ø is zero.

Richard


Is there a Google Translator for all this?   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
 

Ya - it basically means those \"ENERGY SAVERS\" you buy at the local malls do not work - because they need to be VARIABLE !

Now one day (added to my long TODO list) I will make my own \"ENERGY SAVER\" and have it be fully adjustable to account for whats being used in the house.

Almost like a LOAD CONTROLLER - but more of a LOAD SAVER or the likes - hahah

- I need a real electrician to work out the details.
I have seen so much conflict while in the Philippines - amazingly 99% of it was merely online computer experiences :D

Offline coutts00

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2011, 05:00:14 AM »
I think what you need is an electrical engineer.
Wayne  ;D ;D

Offline c_a_p_t_a_i_n_r_o_n

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2011, 03:35:55 PM »

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2011, 10:28:27 PM »
Dear Larry,

    Just leave the neutral wire on the inverter unconnected, insulated, & ungrounded; then use only the two 120 wires.   One of the 120 wires will have to be ground referenced, then it will become the neutral of the Philippine style 220 system.  The other 120 volt wire should now have 220 volts on it & it will be your hot wire.

    Might also be a good idea to check with the inverters manufacturer also.

Best always,
Harry.



Hi Harry .. Yes I need to use an inverter as I am off the electrical grid and am putting in a solar system to augment and replace my generator. .. So my problem is that the inverter is 120/240 output.. It has 3 wires-- each hot wire is 120 volts and then a neutral wire.. My Phil house is a 2 wire system-- 1 hot wire and a ground? So how do I go from the inverter to the house?? I know I have to go thru a sub panel but how is it going to work?? Thks for the help Larry



On Dec 1, 2011, at 4:12 AM, Harry Morgan wrote:

> Dear Larry,
>
>      Are you sure you want to use an inverter, inverters convert DC battery voltage to AC?  If you want 240 volts out of it, use the two 120 volt wires.  If you want 120 volts, use the neutral and either one of the hot wires.  A breaker box set up for Philippine style 240 volts can\'t be used for American 120/240 volts.
>
> Harry



> Subject: great Article on Phil electrics
> Hi harry..Just read your post on the electrical system in Phils..Very well done!!..I just had a few questions for you as I am not an electrician but would like to know how it is supposed to be done..I am bringing a magnum inverter (made in USA) to Phils and it is 120/240 VAC..The 120 lines are 180 out of phase and hooked up together will equal 240 volts.  So I will have the 3 wires—2, 120 volt wires and a neutral coming out of the inverter going to the supply panel..Now my house is 2 wire system..one hot and one ground?  so How do I hook up the 3 wires in the sub panel box and then have just one hot 240 coming out to hook up to my house.. Thanks so much for your help..will be definitely using an electrician but also want to make sure they do it right..thks larry

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2012, 11:00:38 PM »
Hi John,


    Yes you can, just be sure to tape the old common so it\'s insulated.  I would have to know the amperage rating of the welder before I can tell you the wire size?  \"Generally\", 14 gauge is good for 15 amps, 12 gauge for 20 amps, 10 gauge for 30 amps, 8 gauge for 40 amps, 6 gauge for 50 amps.  I think the wire sold in the PI is metric now, getting to be the same in the USA too I think, drat.  I suggest you take the amperage rating from the name plate on the welder and multiply it by 1.25 (125%) and use this figure to size the wire & breaker.  If the number falls between 2 sizes, always round up to the next larger size.


Best always,

Harry.

From: John Sickler can
Subject: Hooking up 220 wielder from state
hi
Can I just hook up the two 110 line to the philippines 220 lines and leave the common   unhooked?
110 v to 220 hot
110 v to 220 ground
I did this with my air compressor and it is working
What gage wire do I need for this and breaker size
Thanks
John R Sickler
Maasin

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2012, 09:16:39 PM »
Dear Brian,

    You know, I\'ve never messed with an oven inside to see how they work.  All I know about is how to run the power to them.  I know they have American/Canadian style 220/110 run to them here and I am wondering if they use only the 110 for the lower heat settings?  Also they might use 110 for the clock/timer?  If either is the case, then I don\'t think it could be used on Philippine 220?  I wish I could be of more help.

Best always,
Harry.


From: Lourdes Losanes

Subject: WIRIING A FOREIGN MADE 220V WALL OVEN

Hi Harry – My wife and I are building our retirement home in Iloilo near Lambunao. We are trying to hook up a wall oven unit we had shipped here from Canada. Do you know if this is possible. I read your article re-posted on myphilippinelife.com about the Philippine wiring system, our filipino electrician hasn’t had much luck for all his efforts. I am wondering if it is an issue of direct current versus alternating current. We tried to connect the black and red wires to the hot cable and the white to the zero volt return cable with ground but with no good results. Desperate for suggestions. Can you recommend an electrician we could hire?
Thanks, Brian Seyler


Offline richardsinger

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2012, 07:03:30 AM »
Harry, are you copying these posts from another forum? I can\'t seem to see the original posts, although I didn\'t check the very old posts.

Anyway the black and red wires are meant to be connected to 2 different (antiphase) live lines, and the white is neutral. In the American/Canadian power systems, this is done to increase the power delivery without having very high currents or any voltage above 120V. If you wanted to apply Philippine power to the oven, you could connect the red to live and the black to neutral, and insulate the white with tape. The problem with that though is that there might be a voltage on the casing of the oven, which is not a good idea. If you can\'t find a good electrician who is familiar with US appliances, it\'s better to replace the oven or else get a big transformer to provide the 2 phase-plus-neutral power needed.

Richard

Dear Brian,

    You know, I\'ve never messed with an oven inside to see how they work.  All I know about is how to run the power to them.  I know they have American/Canadian style 220/110 run to them here and I am wondering if they use only the 110 for the lower heat settings?  Also they might use 110 for the clock/timer?  If either is the case, then I don\'t think it could be used on Philippine 220?  I wish I could be of more help.

Best always,
Harry.


From: Lourdes Losanes

Subject: WIRIING A FOREIGN MADE 220V WALL OVEN

Hi Harry – My wife and I are building our retirement home in Iloilo near Lambunao. We are trying to hook up a wall oven unit we had shipped here from Canada. Do you know if this is possible. I read your article re-posted on myphilippinelife.com about the Philippine wiring system, our filipino electrician hasn’t had much luck for all his efforts. I am wondering if it is an issue of direct current versus alternating current. We tried to connect the black and red wires to the hot cable and the white to the zero volt return cable with ground but with no good results. Desperate for suggestions. Can you recommend an electrician we could hire?
Thanks, Brian Seyler



Offline trevor

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2012, 09:52:56 AM »
From my experience with American wall ovens and ranges. 220 volts is used for the oven heating elements. The timers, clock and lights use 110 volts. 110 volts is supplied from one leg of the 220V. and the neutral leg.
Here in the Ph. where i live they use the two wire 220 volts wiring. There is no way to get the110 volts for the controls and lights. It will not work.
Never look down on anyone and always extend a helping hand. Tomorrow the role may be reverse.
Life is what you make it. Nothing to do with luck.

Offline Metz

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2012, 11:14:59 AM »
I have to get 100amp service to my workshop.  The neighbors will be so thrilled when I use the CNC plasma and the 4hp air compressor.  With both machhines on I will be drawing 8kw+  ;D

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2013, 11:53:05 PM »
Hello Harry,

    In the vast majority of the Philippines you will not find the American style electricity with 2 "lower voltage" hot wires, although I have heard some of the systems the Americans installed near Subic & Clark are this way.  In all the rest of the country you will find only one hot wire at 220 volts and one ground referenced neutral at 0 volts to complete the circuit.  Since we never want to put a fuse of breaker in the neutral or common wire and you only have one hot wire, single pole breakers are all you want.

    If you want an American style system for the whole house in the PI, you will have to install a 220/220 isolation transformer with center tapped secondary sized to power the whole house.  If you only want to power a single 120 volt circuit or tool, you can use a 220.120 volt transformer sized to power the circuit or tool.

Best always,
Harry.


From: harry snell
To: harry80020@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:41 PM

Hello Harry,

First  let me  thank  you  for   your work on  the site  concerning  the electric service on  the house you were building in Phils.   You  obviously spent much time and  thought in doing it.

My wife and son and I are planning a move to Palawan before too long.  I  spent  most of my working  life here in  the US in the  construction  trades   so I  am quite adept and  up  on most stuff.  I  worked as a commercial and residential electricia  so  I am  quite interested to see  the manner  in  which home electrical services are installed.   I  have hopes of bringing  my power tools with me.  Of course some are 115v  so I was curious to see if I  would be able to create a neutral in a service panel as Im  quite sure none come into a house from  the transformers.  I never saw a 220v single wire (hot) system such as  you show in  your  pics. Looking at your  pics I see you  have created a neutral and you are grounded   through  the house rebar......I feel  that is more than   adequate.  I  had planned on bringing  drive-in  ground rods  but  the rebar system seems fine..  What I  dont understand is  your  use of  the single pole breakers......you  have no lower voltage circuits 110-120v   correct?   All are high 220-240 right?   well.....now  that I  think about  it,   since all you  have is high  voltage no reason  why  you  would need 2 pole breakers   since  the hot is all one leg..... interesting.....of  course us guys who  spent decades working in  the US with the few differing types of services here form a mindblock   when something different comes along.....:) I  dont know which type of service will be avail on Palawan   ,   hoping  it will be two lower voltage hots  rather  than  the one high  so  I  can create 115v for tools etc.   At  this stage of my  life I dont  want to  think about buying all new tools :).......I  could rig  up a transformer  but   they are really a waste of electricity turning much  of it to  heat by-product.

At some point  I  would  think   that  the power companies over  there would start making neutrals available  thus selling 115v   as it  is much more profitable   for  them   ie;   an  appliance running  on 230v uses 1/2 the amount  of electricity as a 115v one does.

Good luck  with  your project  and  thanks again  for  the site
                                                                                                                                                       Harry Snell


Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2013, 12:07:03 AM »
Lived here going on 15 years now and over the years, I've just about fried all of our 110V stuff we brought over from the U.S.! So now, it's 220V all the way, we don't use any of our voltage regulars anymore! Luckily most of the appliances and electronics sold here in the Philippines have now built-in voltage regulators or 110V to 240V cord adapters, except for most electric hand tools, which I no longer have - I fried them all! I haven't yet fried anything lately, because we don't buy anything that's 110V anymore! ;D
BTW, all of our 110V outlets no longer works, because the ground somehow shorted out somewhere! Don't use them anymore though! Just will have to put back the 110V sockets back to 220V. It's just much easier to adapt with the RP's 220V!
Went to Hong Kong last year, their 220V wall sockets have a different 3 pronged configuration and I had to buy an adapter just for our handheld hair dryer! ??? :o >:(
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:41:22 AM by Art2ro »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2013, 12:12:29 AM »
Dear Dennis,

    Yes, I am in the US, I live in the Denver area.  My wife is from a small town about 25 miles south of Cebu City.  We have been thinking about moving there, I'm retired & Madel is getting close.  It is nice to meet you & I am glad I could help.

Best always,
Harry.


From: Dennis Busch
To: Harry Morgan <harry80020@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: PI house wiring

Thanks again Harry,

Went to Home Depot and surprised how inexpensive this stuff is.  Can do this for lest than 50, I assumed 100+.

Once again thanks!

Your responses sound like you're in the States?  Do you, or did you, live in the PI?  I lived there back in the 80s with the Air Force, will probably end up retiring there.  Unfortunately won't be another 10 yrs at least.

Dennis


    From: Harry Morgan <harry80020@yahoo.com>
    To: Dennis Busch
    Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
    Subject: Re: PI house wiring

    Dennis,

        You can buy a small 4 or 6 circuit breaker box here in the States and ship it over.  All you have to do is install a jumper wire to tie the two hot busses together.  But your major problem is you still need to split the circuits you have now.

    Best always,
    Harry.


    From: Dennis Busch
    To: "harry80020@yahoo com" <harry80020@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 10:39 AM
    Subject: Re: PI house wiring

    Hi Harry,
    Thanks for the quick response.
    Yes, sorry I forgot the pic and have now attached it. Don't recall which fuse ran lights vs outlets. My hope was to build something here in the US I could ship over and easily just hang and connect those two wires to. BUT know nothing is easy in the PI, especially in E. Samar.
    Thanks again!
    Dennis
   

    From: Harry Morgan <harry80020@yahoo.com>;
    To: Dennis Busch
    Subject: Re: PI house wiring
    Sent: Mon, Feb 11, 2013 4:20:15 PM

    Hi Dennis,

        Your pic didn't make it, so am guessing.  Nothing wrong with a fuse box, providing they are wired correctly & have enough fuses.  A lot of the ones I've looked at there are 2 fuse units with the hot black wire run through one fuse & the neutral white wire run through the other fuse.  Wrong, never run the neutral through a fuse or breaker, only the hot wire is protected.  And a 30 amp circuit on 220 is a lot more power than you want for lights & regular receptacles.  If you are blowing a 30 amp fuse, it's better to install more 15 amp circuits to lower the load on each circuit.  Also light switches should always be in the hot wire, never the neutral.

        In general, we use 14 gauge wire on 15 amp circuits, 12 gauge on 20 amp circuits, 10 gauge on 30 amp circuits.  There is no standard size service from the pole to the meter, it depends on the load/size of the house.  In the USA the minimum is 60 amps, which would require 4 gauge wire.  In the PI a lot of the time they don't pay attention to the rules, or maybe don't understand, you never know what you will find there.  The residential power in the PI is one phase.  We also only have one phase to our homes here in the USA, although we center tap the single phase so we can have 110/220.  3 phase power is usually only in industrial & large buildings.

    Best always,
    Harry.


    From: Dennis Busch
    To: "harry80020@yahoo.com" <harry80020@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 8:41 PM
    Subject: PI house wiring

    Hello Harry,
    Saw your posts on a couple websites about PI wiring and have a couple questions that hopefully you'll kindly entertain.

    My mother-in-law's house only has a fuse box with one white and one black wire coming in.  I've attached a pic.  One side is light switches, the other is wall outlets per my experience there.

    We want to replace this little fuse box with a real breaker panel so we can use a small window A/C unit without blowing fuses.  One trip I put in proper light switches and outlets, which gave them the ability to plug more things in at once so it blows fuses sometimes.  The original fuses are 30 amp, no idea if that's the proper size or means anything.

    Is there a standard size service being fed into PI homes?  Do you know how many amps/phases it is?  Also do you have any idea what the wire gauge is from the pole to the meter?

    I should've brought my multimeter with me, will be sure to next trip.

    Thanks for your help!

    Dennis





Offline Frosty

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2013, 11:24:47 AM »
Hi
Thanks Harry for everything that you have posted. It is great help to all of us that are headed to the P.I.'s and building homes.
I would like to add a few things that I come across with the 110V or 220V. My sister in law and her husband had their house wired for both 110 and 220 (more money).They shipped over from the states all new appliances to put in the new house (more money).. Now after 15 years of brown outs most of the appliances have been picked up by the recycle truck and the 110V system goes unused (wasted money). With the heat that was generated when the transformer was in use you could cook on it, or( heat your house, good for Denver but not the P.I.) (more money for AC).
I don't see any advantage to 110V system in a 220V country.

Offline richardsinger

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2013, 11:48:13 PM »
Harry, all the circuit breaker panels I have seen here in Philippines have breakers on both live and neutral. Since there is often a significant line resistance (on both live and neutral) and therefore the possibility of a standing voltage on the house neutral line, a circuit breaker will protect against over-current on the neutral in the event of a short to ground (e.g. neutral wire crunched against a rebar or somebody drilling a wall and shorting a neutral wire against a rebar).

Many installations use individual CB's for live and neutral, but I think a double pole CB is better since it will completely isolate the appliance in the event of a live or neutral CB trip. Of course if the system has a ground connection, that should never have any switch or breaker in line.

Richard

Offline harry80020

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Re: electricity in the Philippines
« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2013, 09:45:06 PM »
Danny,

    Either one is fine, I used plastic because my father-in-law's house is near the sea, the salt air will eventually rust metal boxes.

Best always,
Harry.

From: Daniel Shindle
To: harry80020@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 7:28 PM
Subject: Electrical question

Hi Harry,

    I enjoyed your thread on electrical wiring in the Philippines.  We are in the planning stages of building a home in Laguna.  Since I have a lot of electrical supplies in stock, left over from previous jobs and projects,I am planning to send rolls of solid 14g and 12g and a panel box.  I am also going to send my grounded duplex outlets and switches.  My question is, what type of outlet and switch boxes are generally used?  I prefer the plastic.  But what I had noticed in most of the homes in the provinces is the metal boxes.

thanks,
Danny