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Author Topic: Solar Panels.  (Read 51288 times)

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2013, 12:18:33 PM »
We're pretty much aware of our electricity consumption, but  these constant price hikes and on everything else are outrageous! This is a poor country, how can they justify the high cost of energy?  >:( Granted that other things are low in cost, but that doesn't mean the energy companies can gouge the whole country! Sure the SC steps in now and then, but most times to no avail like the present 60 day TRO which may have no effect or help to the consumers!  ::) :o   
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 01:01:33 PM by Art Re(tired) Fil/Am »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline BudM

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2013, 01:33:36 AM »
My bill date is the 26th of each month.  Although, I don't have December in hand yet, I just checked online and it is posted.  December is 396.5 pesos less than November.  But, I had used 38 kwh less this time.  December is my seventh bill here and the only really close one on consumption I have was the August bill which was 1 kwh less although I coughed up 454 pesos less on it than the current one.

Adding to the above on this edit.  I went out to the office building today of my boss.  When I walked in, she was in the process of paying her electric bill to the guy going around collecting.  When he left, she says that along with five of the other tenants, they are raising cane about how high their electric bills are this time around.  Their reading dates are the 11th of every month.  I looked at what she had on the initial bill they give her each time, and then found out where her meter was to check and I showed her how to read it.  Then after I did the figuring I showed her that the amount only reflected an increase of 2.5 pesos per kwh.  For the whole past year, there was previously only a 0.5/kwh fluctuation at the most in between any months.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 01:49:01 AM by BudM »
Whatever floats your boat.

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2013, 06:40:24 AM »
Bud,
I assume you're one in a few that's not complaining about their electric bill for December.
I would also assume that a solar powered system is far from your agenda for now! 
Frugal/smart/practical living by choice does help and also when you have a partner that
works for a living who contributes to the home, lifestyle and relationship! Way to go Bud! :o ;)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 10:26:22 AM by Art Re(tired) Fil/Am »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline BudM

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2013, 12:44:47 PM »
Thanks Art.  Yeah, it always makes things easier to have another source of income.  That is not why I went after her though.  LoL.  But, although I am not exactly complaining about the electric like she is, I don't want it to continually increase unreasonably.  I think these sharp increases or what might be more in a couple of months is short-term.  Sooner or later, the demand will drop to the point that they aren't making more than enough.  Just like the way the airlines have been sky rocketing almost the whole past year.  That happens every so often and then they get enough people not wanting to fly that it puts the hurt back on the airlines.

I do monitor costs of things though to try and adjust if it can be done and try the least amount of pain if any to a change.  I make spreadsheets for various things to make it easier and weigh things out.  Don't like throwing money away and don't like spending what I don't have to.  Few months ago, I started keeping a budget.  Never did that before but now with more responsibilities in the home, then I have ever had before, and plus the fact that money is spent out of more than just my pocket, I am keeping track of and handling everything to do with the household.

At the moment, although I am very interested in the solar route, I am not quite set up for it yet.  Have some other priorities that I am working on so it might be another year or two before I can look in to it deeper.  But yeah, I am interested.  Until then, I might buy some of your excess electricity from you once you get going if you don't want to charge me too high of a rate.
Whatever floats your boat.

Offline Leinster Lad

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2013, 09:20:11 PM »
My solar output for today

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217&dt=20131228&gs=3&m=1

Nice  8)

Currently in Perth, we can get a 5kW system ( good mid tier panels and top notch inverter )  installed for about $8000 AUD   ( PHP 320,000 )   That is with quality racking, conduits, cables, breakers, enclosures etc etc.

I will try and see how much shipping to the Philippines would be from here ??.  Although, the panels come from China, and the inverter from Germany........ so shipping SHOULD be cheaper to the Phils.

The slide show from "Greenfields" clearly states that a domestic PV grid connection is possible.
In fact, there is a project currently running called the  "Million Roof Tops Solar" in the Philippines.

Mendoza Solar are doing bits and pieces, but Mr Winston Mendoza was not very willing to share any info about it with me...... Hmmm......

Raffy Concepcion [admin@solarsolutions.ph]  was very keen to discuss Solar PV, but they really don't have much of an idea of what is involved etc.

Meralco were just plain vacant on the subject !!


Guys, solar definitely works and works very well.
ROI should be sub 7 years and quality of power should be higher.

Trying to go "off grid" is nice in theory, it just does not make economic sense ATM, although trying  to eliminate the ever present threat of "brown Outs" is tempting.
Setting up an off grid system with battery storage is going to be VERY expensive....
Might be better off just puting up with the occasional brown out and being happy with significantly reduced power bills ( or even power credits if your system is sized that way )
or running a small generator ( 2 kW ) in times of brown outs ( would make much better economic sense. )
Easy to install the required mains/generator switch gear as well.

I guess time will tell.
Once people get Solar PV connected and share their experiences, the "actual" solar PV reality will be clear !
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 10:37:36 PM by Leinster Lad »

Offline BingColin

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2013, 08:10:13 AM »
We have a solar store in Robinsons Puerto Princesa Palawan. I havent been in it recently, but will check out the cost of a 5kw system after the holidays. The owner used to work in the Shell solar store and took over when they ceased selling solar systems. I know he has installed a full off the grid system over the far side of the island where there is no electricity.

I noticed a few days ago that NCCC hardware are selling some systems, I believe that a 1kw was around P90k but not sure. I have also seen panels in the window of CDR-King, but I imagine the quality may not be good as they tend to go for the cheaper end of prices.

I have seen solar lampposts in the local private cemetery and quite like the idea of replacing the three security lights along our drive that are on every night.



Offline Leinster Lad

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2013, 11:57:32 AM »
We have a solar store in Robinsons Puerto Princesa Palawan.

I have seen solar lampposts in the local private cemetery and quite like the idea of replacing the three security lights along our drive that are on every night.


Hi Colin,
Be inerested to hear your findings from the Solar shop that you mentioned.

Like I have said, I  believe that there is a really good opportunity to setup a business doing domestic roof top solar PV in the Philippines.
The design process is quite complicated, with lots of variables that have to be factored in, but pretty easy for me as i have done a few and have a few years of experience under my belt.
The racking ( mounting ) system for the panels will need to be cyclone rated and installed as such.
The wiring will need to be an "Main Earth Neutral"  system with current leakage detection and suitably sized conductors.
Ideally, you would have two "banks" of panels ( called strings ) both inclined at about 20 degrees, one facing south east, and one facing south west. ( north east and west in Australia )
This will give a better "spread" of power production over the whole day, as opposed to having all the panels facing south, which would give maximum power production only around midday.

Warning, technical content.....
Shade, even a little bit, kills solar panel output significantly........ remember.....  NO SHADE AT ALL , NONE,  cannot express this point enough, not even the shade of a twig or piece of string !!

I am also not sure of the importation process.
Individually in BB boxes could work ???  or in the sea container that we will bring all of our "stuff" over with.  But on a commercial basis ?  I just do not know.

The tricky part will be "doing it" in the Philippines !! And finding suitably qualified and skilled electricians / installers.

The "solar lamp posts" are a good idea, but from what i have seen of them, they are high maintenance ( batteries, circuits etc ) and as such, are an easy target for theft.

As always ( applies to power, comms, whatever )  it is ALWAYS much better if you can run a wire to the device if possible !! Wireless technology should only be used as a LAST RESORT.


Okay.....
todays output so far.              http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=2894&sid=2217

There is a vast amount of information on the web site,  but basically, when looking at the graph, the GREEN LINE is the amount of power ( kW ) that are being generated at the point in time on the bottom horizontal scale. 
The light green shaded area is the amount of kWh's that have been generated.

So if you hover your mouse on the graph area, and align it with 10:00am you can see that the system is generating 4,500 Watts of power.  ( enough power to run 45 x 100 watt light globes )
You can also see that up to 10:00am, the system had generated 10.696 kWh of power ( the energy required to run a 1kW AC unit for 10.696 hours )

If you have a bit of spare time, have a look around the site, you can see other peoples systems, where they are, what they have, etc etc .
You can select ( via the calendar below the graph ) the different dates to look at. from these graphs you can see the effect of cloud cover etc.


Bucket of water / power analagy. ( apologies for being simplistic )

Power ( kW ) can be thought of as the pressure of the water coming out of a hose filling up a bucket.
Energy ( kWh ) can be thought of as how much water is in the bucket

You are billed by the amount of kWh's that you use.

So if you have a 100 Watt light globe turned on for 10 hours, you will use 1 kWh  ( 10 x 100  x 1 hour ) and will be charged for 1 kWh.


Things about GRID TIED SOLAR PV that need to be understood.

"Grid tied" means just that.... it is connected to the grid. It will "follow" the grid frequency and voltage within preset limits.
Once the voltage or frequency of the grid goes outside of these limits, the inverter with shut down.
This is called "anti islanding" and is is done to protect power line workers as well as protecting the inverter ( it was never designed to provide power for the whole street ! )
Because of this "anti islanding" feature, if there is a brown out or black out or the grid become very unstable, the solar will turn off. Once the grid become stable again, the inverter will turn back on ( as long as the sun is shining )

A "grid Tied" system cannot provide very much power if the sun is not shining ( heavy cloud or heavy rain ) , and it will provide NO power at night.
There are NO BATTERIES in a basic solar PV grid tied system.

You may be able to "Trick" the inverter into powering up ( if the grid is down, but the sun is shining ) by turning OFF the MAIN switch in the meter board, and then "feeding power" into the house using a computer UPS ( uninteruptable power supply ) or similar.....
The inverter will "think" that this is mains power and proceed to start up.

***** Please note ***** I have not tried this and it is only a theory **********  Danger Danger ***** Tampering with grid level voltages could be fatal *******

Please don't even try this, it is only a theory.

It would be much safer just to run a small Gen Set.












Offline BingColin

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2013, 03:16:06 PM »
We went to Robinsons today for the New Year shopping and the Solar Store was open. I asked the cost of a 5kw system and they quoted P2.2M, this was with batteries. They did say that the online non battery systems would be cheaper but they dont sell them yet. Maybe there would be problems with connecting to the mains here. It does seem as though importing from Australia could be very profitable.  Their streets lights were P55k each, so still too expensive. When we replace our temporary outside lamposts with something better and more permanent I think I will just use 10w LED's.

Offline Leinster Lad

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2013, 03:58:07 PM »
Wow, 2.2Million !!   That is about $55,000 AUD  !!   WOW............  someone is making a LOT of money if they ever sell one.
That would easily be double if not triple Aussie prices.

Grid connect ( no batteries ) is still the best way to go, even if the grid is not 100% stable.  There is just no point paying so much more money for battery storage for the 1% that the grid is "down"   , and a small gen set is a very cheap way to cover any outages that occur from time to time.

The more systems that get connected to the grid, the more stable it will become.

And any excess energy generated can be used to drive a water purification plant, for self consumption or to sell locally, providing another income stream.

I will be rsearching the importation of systems / components.  Just might be worthwhile  :D
 

Offline JoeLP

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2013, 07:58:11 PM »
Wow, 2.2Million !!   That is about $55,000 AUD  !!   WOW............  someone is making a LOT of money if they ever sell one.
That would easily be double if not triple Aussie prices.

Grid connect ( no batteries ) is still the best way to go, even if the grid is not 100% stable.  There is just no point paying so much more money for battery storage for the 1% that the grid is "down"   , and a small gen set is a very cheap way to cover any outages that occur from time to time.

The more systems that get connected to the grid, the more stable it will become.

And any excess energy generated can be used to drive a water purification plant, for self consumption or to sell locally, providing another income stream.

I will be rsearching the importation of systems / components.  Just might be worthwhile  :D

That's it, in Northern Samar, the power company doesn't even have a power plant, from what I've been told.  They buy power from other companies, then resell it to us.  Since I've been here, we've been without power, for at least 8 hours, at least 3 out of every 5 Saturdays.  Sometimes like this past weekend, both Saturday and Sunday.  At least this time it was mostly during the night.  From about 10pm to 8 or 9 am.  But it a regular thing.  Their excuse is maintenance.  About 4 years ago a new law was past that was to require all power companies to upgrade their grids.  It never happened in Northern Samar. 
That's why I like the idea of putting energy back into the grid to make money, but first, I'd like to fill up enough batteries to get about 8 hours of power for when the company decides to shut down.  Or when there are typhoons and days without power, it will take us most of the night with power before we lose out before the sun comes up again.
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Offline BudM

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2013, 09:49:53 PM »
If you go and dabble in this Art, looks like you will be going alone.  At least without me that is.  I have changed my mind about maybe getting in to it a year or two from now.  If for some reason I can't get electricity, I will go ahead and stockpile some candles so that I won't run out of light.
Whatever floats your boat.

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2013, 11:15:12 PM »
Only during power outages (which is seldom here where we live), but I only use candles at night during a black out just to keep the bogeyman at bay and with the bed sheets over my head!  ??? :o ;)
I don't like to sleep in a pitch black room, must always have a night lite on!   
This solar power thing is just tentative until I know more about it!
The cost of electricity may be high where we live, but we can still afford it! We just like our creature comforts during our retirement with our A/C running 24/7! So no, we are not the frugal type! I'm not complaining, life is good in the Philippines!   
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 11:23:22 PM by Art Re(tired) Fil/Am »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2013, 10:03:46 AM »

There is just no point paying so much more money for battery storage for the 1% that the grid is "down", and a small gen set is a very cheap way to cover any outages that occur from time to time.
consumption or to sell locally, providing another income stream.


Down time depends on where you are.  When we visited Buguey last week the power was out every day from 5:30-7pm.  Some places report brownouts daily for 2-4 hours.

A good gen set would be one of the first requirements for our permanent house.
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline medic3500

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2014, 10:34:10 PM »
Just for information I happened across a gent from the UK (also lives here part time I think) on another site who deals with solar panels, power and equipment. He is in the process of trying to find a local as a partner so he can bring his business here or something like that.  I invited him to this group since there has been much discussion about this recently.

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Solar Panels.
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2014, 01:30:22 AM »
Super!  I did approve someone from the UK this morning.  Perhaps that was the gentleman to whom you refer.   :)
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH