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Author Topic: Building our house in a sub-division  (Read 18013 times)

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2013, 03:59:48 AM »
Wildbill
 
What is the width of the holes and what are the walls constructed of?
 
If the bottoms are “open” for drainage then there is no point in having two chambers.

What I’m getting the sense of is  that there is some lack of understand in the general (construction) population in the field of waste treatment/septic systems.
 
Medic3500

The description of your system appears to be a properly designed system.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 04:12:04 AM by hitekcountry »

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2013, 07:37:12 AM »
WildBill,

What you are describing is the typical pinoy "that's how it's done here" syndrome.  Nope, it's not the way we do it back home.

 
Medic3500 wrote: "If a septic tank is installed correctly and maintained you surely can flush toilet paper."

This is one reason why we discuss things like using the tabo instead of TP.  The pinoy systems are not designed the same as those you are accustomed to unless you pay extra, design it and supervise the installation. 


This is one of the things that drives some people to drink...  a lot!   :)


 
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2013, 03:23:55 PM »
If one doesn't incorporate a leach field or some sort of over flow drainage system, one has to have an enclosed type of septic tank with live microorganisms to breakdown the waste and will require more frequent flushing/cleaning.
It's a real shame that the main cause of contaminated underground water is the seepage of waste from leaking old poorly maintained septic tanks! The Philippines is way behind in the sewage and water system management and lack the needed water & sewage treatment plants for every rural provinces, small towns and cities! People and animals will continue to die from their own waste and filth unless sanitation improves in their perspective areas of responsibility or by government intervention in order to improve the lives of the entire local populace of the Philippines!   

Click on below to the video clips to see what I mean: 
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 11:03:27 AM by Art2ro »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
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Offline wildbill

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2013, 08:35:15 PM »
thanks I will just wait and see if the poo stays put LOL you know my contractor said why dont I also construct my dirty kitchen rite on top of my septic tank so I would not have to pour another foundation for the kitchen.I d k ..:) im making some adjustments here and sacrifices I even made my own carcoal once thats the country Boy in me I guess.:) or is it RED NECK po .

Offline richardsinger

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2013, 09:01:49 PM »
I had to research into local septic tank practices last year, couldn't see any discussion about this on the forum at the time.

A proper septic tank has 2 chambers (usually) and a drain-field. The chambers are concrete and do not (should not) leak into the ground, except via the drain-field. The drain-field is a system of perforated pipes laid in gravel about 1 meter below the surface, and to work properly, needs to cover quite a large area.

Since it is common for houses to be built here on very small lot areas, there is simply no space for a drain-field and so a different system is practiced for local conditions. If you are lucky, your area may have a district sewage pipe nearby (usually referred to as a culvert) and you may connect your black water outlet to that.

If there is no district sewer, then instead of a septic tank, what is often constructed is a sess-pool. This is basically a deep hole in the ground, and to be safe it should have concrete walls. But these walls should also allow water to escape to leach into the soil, so they can be constructed from pre-cast concrete pipe sections (around 4 - 6 feet in diameter) that have holes in the sides to let the water through. Or hollow blocks can be used, with separation between the blocks to allow the water to pass. If the soil is clay it will not let the water through, so the hole has to be dug deeper until there is sandy soil which will leach the water away. The base of the hole is not concreted so there will be leeching through the base too.

Many builders don't bother to build any side walls at all, so there is a risk of the sess-pool collapsing after several years, due to underground water eroding the soil walls and the weight of the concrete slab on the top.

As far as I can tell from a brief scan of the building regulations, a sess-pool is only allowed as a temporary (less than 2 years) waste disposal system until a district sewer pipe is available so that a permanent solution can be achieved. But of course this is never enforced in practice and there are many many long-term sess-pools around.

Depending on the nature of the soil and the depth of the hole, a sess-pool can be used for years without requiring to be pumped out. My neighbour's house is 12 years old and so far he has never had to have this done. But eventually the outlet seepage will slow down. In my city you can see quite a few small signs around on roadside poles, advertising "sip sip pose-negro". This is the pumping service you will need to call if your sess-pool gets backed up. I believe they will also try to clean the sides and base of the sess-pool but that might require the top slab to be removed to provide proper access. Baho!

Another common practice by some builders is to connect an overflow pipe from the sess-pool to the nearest rainwater drain outside the lot. This is explicitly prohibited in building regulations, but this is Philippines right?

As far as toilet paper is concerned, I would not risk it. The locals I know always seem to take care not to flush toilet paper so I believe there is a good reason for it. Anything that slows down the leaching process must be a bad idea.

Sorry for the long post. Hope at least it can help someone to ask a few probing questions and detect builder's BS before they end up with a big smelly problem.

Richard




Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2013, 01:32:27 AM »
Excellent post Richard!  Don't worry about length, it's the content that matters.  You have given everyone a very good insight into the difference between "what should be" and "what is".


Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2013, 06:55:57 AM »
This is very much what my interest is in knowing the “what is”.
 
Growing up in the country my first experience with septic systems was helping my father build a septic tank (inspected and approved by the county) and later owning my own home and dealing with septic tank and leach lines, I have some experience in this area.

It’s obvious why the country (RP) has water quality/contamination problem.

Another area I have questions about is the “what is” condition for wells that are the water supply. As an example here in the U.S. you can’t have a well and any part of a septic system any closer than 100ft apart.  I strongly suspect if you were to use that as a standard there it is likely violated quite often.

What would be the common types of wells in the RP.  Are they hand dug brick lined? Are they drilled wells with PVC or steel casing? And is there some standard practice as to distance separation from well to septic?

Offline FMSINC

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2013, 08:17:20 AM »
Hi in the Brgy standard water well is hand dug and not line depth is usually 8 feet or so

I have seen water wells within 15 feet of the septic tank but most do not have  a septic tank they just have open pit when its full they dig another hole.

Even in large subdivisions there is no sewage treatment plant each house has its own septic tank (Pinoy Style) even the island of Boracay is like this all sewage ends up in the aquifer or the sea

My advice is do not drink the water from any well and watch where you swim in the ocean make sure there is not a raw sewage outlet near where you swim

Remember it is always more Fun in the Philippines

Best Regards

Tom / Roxas City

Offline richardsinger

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2013, 09:02:12 AM »
The building regs do cover the distance between "septic tank" and streams or underground wells, but enforcement is always the big problem here.

Probably for that very reason, all the subdivisions I have seen with "deep well" water supply do not class the water as drinkable. People use it for washing though, and also washing up dirty dishes. Makes you wonder.

Richard

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2013, 10:22:17 AM »
The pumping services referred to in post #34, are these guys regulated in any way as to where they dump the “product” or is it possible/likely  that they might just take and dump it at the closest river or open field?  >:(

Offline richardsinger

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2013, 03:50:29 PM »
The pumping services referred to in post #34, are these guys regulated in any way as to where they dump the “product” or is it possible/likely  that they might just take and dump it at the closest river or open field?  >:(

They are supposed to take it to a waste water treatment plant, maybe they even have a treatment plant as part of their business. Hopefully enforcement for this industry is better than it is for builders.

Richard

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2013, 01:37:11 AM »
In Novaliches, we had a well drilled with a steel casing.  A pump and pressurized tank was attached topside.  It cost us about $800.  The water is used only for watering plants, doing laundry, washing the walkways.  Everyone drinks bottled water.  Last year they were attached to Maynila Water and use it for cooking, showers, toilets. 
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2013, 02:46:03 AM »
In Novaliches, we had a well drilled with a steel casing.  A pump and pressurized tank was attached topside.  It cost us about $800.  The water is used only for watering plants, doing laundry, washing the walkways.  Everyone drinks bottled water.  Last year they were attached to Maynila Water and use it for cooking, showers, toilets. 
So even municipal water supply is not to be trusted?  :-\

Grey wolf  -- How much of the $800 was for drilling the well and installing the casing? How deep was the well?

 I’m thinking the water table maybe high enough to easily mix with ground level water and septic which maybe some of the problem.

Offline Gray Wolf

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2013, 04:01:54 AM »
The municipal water supply in most cities is not to be trusted for drinking.  It varies widely depending on province, etc, but I wouldn't trust it completely.  Everyone I know drinks bottled water, a lot of it supplied by local "filling stations" where filtered water is sold.  They offer free jugs that attach to the filling station apparatus.  Relatively inexpensive and good quality water, at least in our barangay in phase three. 

With our well they hit an aquifer at 45 feet, I think.  This was near the top of the ridge the barangay sits on.  The price included everything, drilling, casing, pump and tank.  This was about 9-10 years ago. 
Louisville, KY USA - Bagong Silang, Caloocan City, PH

Offline fred

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Re: Building our house in a sub-division
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2013, 06:15:07 AM »
Our well in Cavite is 80 Meters deep.. GI pipe with nylon pipe casing.
The 3 chamber septic tanks grey water goes (I think) straight into the creek!