Author Topic: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....  (Read 10749 times)

Offline Lei

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2015, 08:21:26 AM »
Thanks Kuya. I do feel for Bing for what she is going thru...she is taking it hard, grieving for the loss of Dan and yet had to go thru all these complicated financial details which could have been avoided with proper planning. There is no point, however, emphasizing what's already done and let this serve as a lesson for some of us who read this and have not thought of it.

While we are on the subject, I have been to a few funerals in the province since I came back. I was struck with the grandiose preparation to bury their love ones, especially those with money or who's family come from abroad. They buy the most expensive caskets and flower bouquets, every night until the dead is buried, there's prayer, card playing, madjong, pigs gets butchered, pansit, arrozcaldo, drinks, coffee, sandwiches, cookies were served with a hired singer on the background singing thru the night. At the time of the funeral, a marching band is on hand, a videographer is hired, a mass is offered in the church where people line up to pay their last respect and offer condolences to the whole family. Five or more pigs, a cow maybe, gets also butchered to feed people from different barangays. Not my money, so it's not my business but I thought "where are the priorities?". I mentioned it to the parish priest who happened to grow up in Hawaii and he agreed about the commercialization of burying our dead. What if some of these funds spent for the dead is spent on the living instead donated in memory of the dead to a good cause in the community? There's so much poverty surrounding us and public display of wealth, or spending what we don't have, only exacerbates the wide divide of the rich and the poor and make people poorer. During a close family gathering, I broached the idea of when my time comes, I don't want to be butchered and injected with chemicals and to bury me quick! A simple handmade wooden casket is fine, no China made non biodegrable casket. I want a simple ceremony, a mass/ prayer session  attended with only close friends and relative.  Snacks and drinks can be serve. The same ceremony to be done with my elderly parents when their time comes. I was met with sarcastic smiles. There was a chorus, are you not ashamed of what people say? That's the way things are done. People will THINK our family are a bunch of cheapskates! When I asked if someone can shoulder the funeral expenses, they all keep quiet. So I said, if I am shouldering the expenses, then my wish shall be done! Otherwise, I shall come back and haunt you all, I joked. Sometime ago, I watched a short movie where a casket is being followed by a colorful attired attendees and dancing to a lively music Lol. I like that! They are celebrating, I believe, cuz their love one is going home to be with our creator. Actually, my dad said, when me and your mom are gone, it doesn't matter how you all decide to have us buried. He is a WW2 veteran and usually in my hometown, veterans are honored and attended by the organizations members. At least in my hometown, there's 2 public cemetery of the Catholic parish where people can get buried for free. I am sure tongues will be wagging in the community and knowing me, having lived in the US and considered rich(not true, lol), many would be shock but do I care?

Offline Kurt

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2015, 10:05:22 AM »
I've decided to help nature. I'm going to feed the crocks up in North Queensland, Australia. No one has anything to worry about then. LOL.  .......Cheers. Kurt

Offline coleman2347

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2015, 02:10:18 PM »
I can be buried at the military cemetery  in Clark, Maline and I just came back from AC, she was impressed how neat the place was, and said it would be good if thats where I wanted to be buried...
The only thing worse than wanting to do it is not doing it

Offline Lei

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2015, 12:11:20 AM »
An addendum to what I posted.

Dan's hospital unpaid bill came up to 200,000 plus 80,000 pesos for the funeral home cost for the 4 days. It turned out he has no savings, no medical coverage, no wills, is applying for PRA visa but no money deposited so far. Bing talks about Dan and his son been fighting in court in Canada prior to coming here in the Philippines. The son in Canada decided he will pay for the funeral cost but not the hospital bills. Not paying the hospital bills means no death certificate. Can't cremate or bury him without death certificate. The hospital will issue the death certificate only if half of the bill is paid for, a promisory note backed by a collateral and with 2 signatories. I can't do anything about that either. So I contacted the Canadian embassy for some info and report a death, they're very helpful, they checked the veracity of my statement by calling the funeral home and they had been calling me to check on the progress. Dan, being a Permanent resident of Canada and a Citizen of Austria, I was told to contact the Austrian Embassy and that they take the lead in pursuing the case. The Austrian embassy told me to send a report of the death, a death or medical certificate and a passport photocopy which I did this morning. Bing is frustrated and going crazy (her words) about the whole thing. Meanwhile, days goes by at the funeral home at 5,000 pesos per day charge plus incidentals, food, transportation, etc.

My question...what if Bing abandon Dan's body at the funeral home, it does sounds very cruel, but I would not blame her at all for lack of resources and the stress of dealing with it. She signed the initial promisory note and it's past due. What will happen to the body? Will the country of origin claim it and pay for the bills if the family abroad does not recognized it? I did touched on the subject when I was talking on the phone to a lady at the embassy. She was curt and businesslike in her reply..don't make any promises that we will pay! Just send in the paperworks. Does anybody has any idea in this regard? I would really appreciate any reply. 

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2015, 01:15:07 AM »
It was Dan’s decision to trust his son with his assets instead of Bing. He is now reaping the consequences of that decision. Bing is not to feel at fault. She doesn’t have the ability and therefor does not have the responsibility.

Responsibility = ability to respond.

If you want to pursue this, I did have one thought. Would it be possible to find out the news media in his area/city, newspaper/TV and send them the story including pictures (pictures are important) of Dan and Bing and maybe even of Dan in the hospital and let them know how Dan’s son is not willing to take care of his dead father’s bills. He probably would not be acting this way if this was happening in his town where his friends and neighbors would hear about it. He probably feels with it all happening in the Philippines he can abandon his father without anyone knowing. Maybe his friends and neighbors will help him decide to do the right thing.

Offline Lei

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2015, 07:23:55 AM »
Nice thoughts hitekcountry, that's worth pursuing. Also one of our members here from Canada PM me offering some help and to look into the common law statutes of Canada with the exception of Quebec. We have been digging into some court documents here in Dan's possession and will try to contact his BC lawyer and ask for info or help. One of these days I will accompany Bing to the Austrian/Canadian embassy and inquire also. I haven't heard from the Austrian embassy yet and will follow up also today.

Offline hitekcountry

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2015, 08:05:32 AM »
Julie

It’s a good and honorable thing for you to help Bing in her time of need.

God bless you.


Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2015, 10:59:48 AM »
Yes Julie, you are in deed a very honest, trust worthy and good person to help Bing in her time of need. It's truly an honor and pleasure to have met you in person in the short time we got to know you and now consider you as our friend. 
I hope with your help, Bing can eventually resolve her delima. Best wishes and good luck in your efforts to help Bing manage Dan's personal affairs without too much difficulties, which is really an under statement, which we all know will not be an easy task to do, even for anyone in Bing's  particular situation, which I feel has gotten everyone's attention on here in how important it is to manage a loved one's personal affairs after he/she has passed on and receives the appropriate widow's benefits one is legally entitled to under local and international laws.       
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline Lei

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2015, 01:53:38 PM »
Salamat po! Speaking of God's Blessing, yesterday, a huge packet from Dan's British Columbia lawyer came in the mail. It contained all the legal matters between Dan and his lawyer son. Reading it was a revelation. Dan did not die a pauper after all as he's got a house in his late wife's name that he entrusted to his lawyer son. At one point, he gave a power of attorney to his son's Chinese common law wife who turned around and mortgaged it. This was rescinded by court later as an illegal activity. Then Dan transferred the house to his son's name with the bargain that the son will take care of his needs. It's a mess. Dan first came to stay in the Philippines in 2011. When Dan, who was barely able to take care of himself, went back to Canada more than a year ago to settle his estate, his son put him in his in laws apartment as Dan's house was rented out. As court battle ensues, his son evicted him and his only option was to contact the home for the aged or go back to Bing in the Philippines. He chose the later. His share for the house according to the court is 130,000 but the son settled in court to pay 30,000 dollars instead which Dan had no choice to accept as he said,  he was sick, tired and worried about his failing health and wanted to go back to Bing in the Philippines. He didn't get the 30,000 in lump sum. In addition, he sent blank checks for his son to withdraw from his Canadian pension for the PRA visa application. It's been a year but he never got to receive the money for the purpose. According to Bing, the son sent 2,000 dollars for his dad's cataract operation a few months ago, another 2,000 for the PRA appication, 2,000 for the hospital deposit and the last was 4,000 for the funeral home.  I guess, the rest of the money was for attorneys fees! Lol.

I was able to contact the Austrian embassy just now to follow up on my email that I sent yesterday morning. I was scolded to be patient as they received about 300 emails everyday. Well I shot back madam can someone at least send me an acknowledgement that you received my email and the required attachments and doing your part since this is an emergency matter? Hehe, hence the scolding. Now I am thinking, she was probably upset with me cuz I addressed her Madam! Hehe,In the Philippines, the word can have a negative connotation. Opps! And not to tell her what to do! Well I did apologized to her majesty. In comparison with the Canadian embassy, all the consul asked me are personal info of the deceased, and then they did the calling themselves to verify the information I gave. On top of that, they even called me several times to follow up on the progress! That's excellent service!


Offline Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2015, 03:15:27 PM »
Julie,
From what you found out so far, Dan is financially broke in Canada and his lawyer son made sure of that, unless he still has assets in Austria, when the Austrian Embassy gets back with you or if you are able to make contact with Dan's relatives in Austria to find out if he still has any assets.
When our neighbor's British spouse died, she went through the same running around to take care of her husbands affairs and medical bills worth over P1.3 million, but she managed it all some how all on her own! She's a private independent person with a 10 yr old daughter, she's the type that doe not reply on family, friends and or relatives.     
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 03:26:31 PM by Art, just a re(tired) Fil-Am »
"Life is what we all make it to be"!
"It's always a matter of money"!
"Do on to others as they would do on to You, but do it first"!
"Different strokes for different folks"!
"Que Sera Sera"!

Offline Lei

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2015, 08:27:23 PM »
I realized I should have been a little more careful about my criticism with the lady I talked to at the Austrian Embassy. That was insensitive and rude of me to make a jest out of it. I think it's the intonation that I presumed to be unfriendly and my first reaction to it was negative. Sorry.

Offline Hestecrefter

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2015, 02:28:32 AM »
Interesting thread, about the plight of the wife of "Dan."

I would not hold out much hope that the government of Canada or Austria will step up to the plate and pick up the tab for funeral or medical expenses.  Nor should they. Why should the taxpayers have to shoulder the bills of those who failed to provide for themselves? 

As well, I find the figures being bandied about quite extraordinary.  Does the average Filipino have P20,000 a day for the body to be warehoused at the funeral home?  And P15,000 to supersize the casket? 

As for the whole debacle between Dan and his son (who appears to be an attorney from what has been said) it sounds like he won't likely be coaxed into doing much more.  He's half a world away and cannot really be forced to do that he cares not to do. 

Some have suggested contacting the media where the son lives with a view to carrying out a public shaming.  Almost like the Phils, it's easy to be sued for defamation in Canada and I doubt any responsible media outlet will have much appetite for buying into a potential lawsuit.  Moreover, in the ordinary course, family members have no personal liability for the debts of a deceased family member, although the executor of a will or administrator of an estate has a duty to pay debts out of the deceased's assets.

Here, it sounds as though the son gave some kind of undertaking to pay the father's debts in exchange for property or something of value.  So, there might be a remedy in contract.  The son also appears to be in default in sending funds for a visa application.  But pursuing these things through legal channels would involve someone able to act as a representative of the deceased prosecuting an action against the son in Canada.  Said "someone" would almost certainly be asked to put up a retainer in the range of CAD10,000 (P350,000).

As a practical matter, the suggestion of abandoning the body, while distasteful, might be a course of prudence.  Short of moral suasion being employed to effect, there's not much prospect for a white knight coming to the rescue.

As an aside, my guess is that Dan's son. who apparently has some access to his father's pension funds, is still collecting the pension.  Why not just keep quiet about the death for awhile?  From what has been said about the son, it sounds as though his moral compass is in serious need of recalibration.  But, in the end, I cannot repose a great deal of confidence in the story being presented.  That is not to attribute fault to anyone, but simply to acknowledge the fact that the information is being passed through many hands and might suffer some defects in accuracy and completeness as a result.  I make this observation in light of a few peculiar aspects to the story, such as Dan and son were involved in litigation in Canada.  Dan got worn down and made a most improvident settlement.  Yet he still allows his son to somehow have control over/access to some pension resource.  Dan must be taken to have known that he could have his pension paid to some financial institution in Canada, Austria or the Phils and have the ability to draw on it without his son's intermeddling.

Offline bcnorth

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2015, 07:40:09 AM »
With due deference to you Mr. Hestecrefter, a Canadian, I take issue with several of your remarks. As an example, you write, “I would not hold out much hope that the government of Canada or Austria will step up to the plate and pick up the tab for funeral or medical expenses.” If you read what the friend (Lei) of Dan, the dead husband, and Bing, the dead wife, writes you see that what she initially attempted to do was exactly what you suggested might be done. That is, without having money available, “abandoning the body . . . might be a course of prudence.“ Lei contacted both the Canadian and the Austrian embassies because it was necessary to pay the hospital to obtain a death certificate that was needed in order to create or bury Dan. As it turned out both the Canadian embassy and the Austrian embassy undoubtedly realized there was a problem and asked for a substantial amount of information before they could proceed. At one point Lei was confused because the lady she talked to from the Austrian embassy replied curtly, “don’t make any promises that we will pay.” It was then that Lei went to this board and asked for help, “Does anybody have any idea in this regard?” I do credit you Mr. Hestercrefter for taking the time to give Lei and Bing advice.

There is another  important issue Lei touches on; she writes that she and Bing are pursuing the issue of common law marriage in Canada.  We know from comments made by Lei it is likely Dan was, or had been, a resident of British Columbia for she mentions his B.C. lawyer. What we don’t know is whether Dan and Bing ever lived together while he was a legal resident of B.C. and/or whether he was filing Canadian federal and B.C. provincial taxes while he was living in the Philippines. If he was then it is likely Dan and Bing would legally be considered to be in a legal common law relationship/marriage. Since March of this year the Province of British Columbia considers the rights and responsibilities of a common law marriage to be equal to that of a normally registered marriage. The reason this is important are the words of Canada Pension. “ If you have lived or worked in Canada and in another country, or you are the survivor of someone who has lived or worked in Canada and in another country, you may be eligible for pensions and benefits from Canada and/or from the other country because of a social security agreement. “ Dan’s body may never be made up for a funeral and Bing may now be going through hell, but most important is that there is a good chance she will receive Dan’s Canadian pension benefits.

I certainly am not trying to get after you Mr. Hestecrefter about Canadian common law relationships because in British Columbia the new legislation on common law marriages has the B.C legal profession in a real quandary on how attorneys should advise their clients on the issue. 

Offline Hestecrefter

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2015, 09:04:28 AM »
Well, bcnorth, an example of my remarks with which you take issue is my expressed doubt about the willingness of the government of either Canada or Austria to step in to cover medical and/or funeral costs.  You follow your quotation of my words with a long dissertation, but I am not able to discern just what I have said you consider to be in error.  I take it you are saying that, contrary to my doubts on the topic, either or both of those governments will, in fact, play the role of guarantor or indemnitor.  On what basis do you hold that opinion?  Perhaps you are correct, but I am just curious from whence you draw support for your contrary view, if such it be.

As for the other “important issue” touched upon, about “pursuing the issue of a common law marriage in Canada”, I must confess I did not even see anything about that in this thread until you brought it up.  I must have overlooked it.  But if I missed the point and did not address it, why “take issue” with my remarks?  My post utters not a word on the topic.  I said nothing whatsoever about whether Bing has any right to Dan’s Canadian pension benefits.  Let me pause at this point to say that I know neither Dan nor Bing and I intend no inappropriate familiarity or disrespect in referring to them by their first names.  You conclude your paragraph by saying “but most important is that there is a good chance she will receive Dan’s Canadian pension benefits.”  I never suggested otherwise. 

Kindly allow me equal time in taking issue with remarks.  You comment: “Since March of this year the Province of British Columbia considers the rights and responsibilities of a common law marriage to be equal to that of a normally registered marriage.”  Just what, pray tell, is your authority for that sweeping proposition?  What happened in March 2015 that I missed?  The Family Law Act replaced the Family Relations Act in March 2013.

You say:  “the new legislation on common law marriages has the B.C legal profession in a real quandary on how attorneys should advise their clients on the issue.”  Really?  If the “new legislation” is the FLA, it has been with us since March 2013.  I do not think any family law specialist in this province is in any doubt at all about the application of the FLA.  There have been continuing legal education courses and a fair number of cases at all levels of the BC courts, and a few from the Supreme Court of Canada, providing interpretation and guidance.  Anyone left in a quandary has no business practicing law.

I practiced law in B.C. for nigh on 30 years.  My current work requires me to keep up on the law, inter alia, by reading all cases from the B.C. Provincial Court, Supreme Court and Court of Appeal and all Supreme Court of Canada cases that had their genesis in B.C.  I am at a loss to follow what you are saying about B.C. family law.  I shall assume from your words that you are a barrister and solicitor of the B.C. Supreme Court and that you can enlighten me. 

So, like you, I am not trying to “get after you”, but simply to be informed. 

Offline Lei

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Re: I have a question for those on here about plans when the time comes....
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2015, 01:20:19 PM »
Thank you gentlemen for the enlightenment. I am no match to both your wit and intelligence so I just touch on some issues and  facts.
1. The funeral home cost 5,000 pesos per day. Today, we transferred the body to a more reasonable funeral home just outside the Baguio City at half the price. My thoughts of "what if Bing abandon the body" is just a point of discussion  and I can guarantee it's not going to happen. I know Bing very well and  as a friend, my conscience dictates, I have to do what is right.
2. The 15, 000, yes that's right, it is to supersize the casket.

Hestecrefter, you said why should the taxpayer, I presumed you mean the people of both well off countries, Canada and Austria or in general have to provide for those who fail to provide for themselves? I agree, but in the US, it's happening all the time! Welfare (subsidized housing, food stamps, medicaid) medicare cost is an all time high and is bankrupting the country. Worst, In my profession, I have known many who give away their resources to their immediate family and so they can qualify to be taken care by the government at a huge cost. Ok that's besides the point.  My question, if a foreigner died in the Philippines while on vacation and has no resources and no family or family is not obligated to pay for the expenses to repatriate cremate bury the body, why should we poor Filipinos have the burden of having to deal/pay for it. Now that reminds me to see the city government/official for help/advice as you could be right, the Austrian or Canadian government might not be able to help. But if this happened in my hometown in the province, with or without death certificate, out of respect, we are going to bury the dead. It's sad and an outrage that a dead body should be kept hostage due to lack of money or unable to pay his bills.